Saitek X52

[Manny]

I would like former X45 owners/users and present X52 owners/users to chime in about the differences primarily in the flight control precision, i.e. the gimbal mechanism and the spring constants, forces, and overall smoothness of the flight controller.

 

As a current X45 user, I have noticed the spring guide resisting a smooth, analogue, and slow motion instead, through age, degrading into a coarse, digital movement as friction builds between the spring guide/retainer and the base it slides on.

 

I observed the same configuration used in the X52 and can not believe the flight controller to be any more precise as it ages. I have tried lubricating the X45 spring guide/retainer to no avail and know removing the spring (I have not done on X45 but have on other joysticks) will solve the problem.

 

To date, the only flight controller that is non-centering and still provides a very clean, crisp analogue movement is the CH Flight Sim Yoke USB. The only flight controller that is centering I have ever owned offering that crisp, smooth analogue feel was the thrustmaster F-22 HOTAS. Spring tension was an issue and Thrustmaster never got it right though admitted it tends to be a prob resulting in user modification of either thinner springs or complete removal.

 

Removing the spring is ideal but not under all conditions. One certainly can not remove a hand from the flight controller or certain peril will result. Thus, spring removal is only an option as a very last resport.

 

I am just curious what users of the X52 have to say and whether Saitek has resolved this issue as precision in my X45 has gone the way of the DoDo bird and no matter what I do, I can not achieve it. Considering removing the spring and guild.

 

On a lighter note, I do see improvements to the X52 but they appear more bell and whistle eye-candy than real improvements. Some of the button arrangements look aweful and seem to require that your hands are taken off the controllers to manipulate a function... not true HOTAS. Chime in on that as well.

 

Also, the fact they removed the rudder from the throttle and put it in the flight controller seems odd. How do you manage to operate the flight controller to the 4 cornerns and twist in it too? This arrangement was in the Microsoft Force Feedback Joystick I used to own and I could never appreciate the twist.

[S77th-GOYA]

I've never used an x52, but before you remove the x45 spring, try compressing it with zip ties or something similar. One or two coils held together makes a big difference. Even then I still had problems with friction from the base ring. So much that the base ring cracked.

[Manny]

I've never used an x52, but before you remove the x45 spring, try compressing it with zip ties or something similar. One or two coils held together makes a big difference. Even then I still had problems with friction from the base ring. So much that the base ring cracked.

 

Hey that is interesting Goya. I have never considered compression. I have considered removal of the base plate/spring guide since lubrication does nothing to remove friction. Of course that will soften the spring to unusability for centering.

 

I suppose I will never find the perfect application but to build my own or buy a Cougar and mod it .. yuck

[Yellonet]

I've never used an x52, but before you remove the x45 spring, try compressing it with zip ties or something similar. One or two coils held together makes a big difference. Even then I still had problems with friction from the base ring. So much that the base ring cracked.

But doesn't that make the spring force too weak?

 

Edit: just tried it on my Saitek Cyborg, and it takes away the friction problem but when the stick is centered there is virtually no spring tension so you will probably need a larger dead-zone.

[S77th-GOYA]

No, it will still center. Less centering pressure takes getting used to after the strong stock centering force.

 

Plus, you can adjust the compression by more or less ties.

[Manny]

But doesn't that make the spring force too weak?

 

Edit: just tried it on my Saitek Cyborg, and it takes away the friction problem but when the stick is centered there is virtually no spring tension so you will probably need a larger dead-zone.

 

Actually Yellonet I just thought of that as I re-read Goyas response. Apart from removing the spring and flying by seeking the center based on attitude, what else can be done?

[Guest ruggbutt]

The CH Fighterstick centers nicely and is lighter than the X45 or X52 to move.

[Manny]

The CH Fighterstick centers nicely and is lighter than the X45 or X52 to move.

 

Ok Rugg come on now, admit it you have a large sign out front your place of residence that reads: Qualified CH Reseller -- Cater to Disgruntled Thrustmaster Users

 

I may consider the CH Fighterstick. I enjoy the programmability of a controller and not sure if you can do the same with the CH product.

[Guest ruggbutt]

To be brutally honest, I miss some of the features of my X45. Mainly the rotaries that I had mapped to trim. And the throttle worked in an arc. But I killed 3 of them in 1.5 years.

[Tallyho1961]

Re: the above suggestion about modifying your X-45 spring force with zip ties, here's a link that will help: http://members.chello.at/dolphin6/mod_spring/

 

I did this and found it to be a great improvement.

[emenance]

the x52 is so much better, and for someone new to flight sims like me...having the rudder on the joystick really helps untill you wana go get pedals.

 

Only thing I miss is being able to zoom in an out after hitting f2 for external view , I still havent figured out how to get that to work. Cockpit zoom , no problem.

[Tallyho1961]

the x52 is so much better...

 

When my X-45 gives up the ghost, it'll either be a CH stick/throttle combo or the X-52, so I'm curious to know what it is about the latter that you like so much versus the X-45. I'm assuming you've owned both.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Guest ruggbutt]

I was really good w/the rudder rocker on the X45, but since I got pedals I'm absolutely lethal on strafing runs. I don't do so well w/the twisty stick either.

[eric37a]

I have the X52.

 

TH GOOD:

The spring rate is fine once you get used to it. I never bought the X45 because I hated how heavy the spring was, but that's more personal preference.

 

Twisty stick isn't as bad as I thought, at first I didn't like it. After getting used to it, it's okay because the tension is strong enough that you don't move it when you're trying to do something else.

 

The LCD is useful in that I can switch between different profiles in game (A10, Su25T, F15) pretty easily.

 

The Stick is more comfortable than the X45/36 Everything feels right where it should be, maybe because it's adjustable;)

 

 

 

ThE BAD:

X45/36 Throttle to me is more comfortable (go figure, the stick gets better the throttle gets worse.)

 

There is a twisty stick

 

Toggle switches to me are nice, but akward to get to. I always have to look at them to know which one i'm pressing. The precision slider is weird sometimes as well.

 

The detents aren't as strong as the X45/36 I always feel as though I never really know where the afterburner is even with the friction knob turned all the way up.

 

Mouse wheel doesn't work as well as I'd like

 

The newer drivers/software can be a nightmare to get set up correctly depending on your system.

 

 

THE AWESOME:

 

Price. For what you get it's hard to beat.

 

Mounting holes to attach the controllers to to my chair made my life better.

 

The mode switch is finally in a place that makes sense to me and since it has DIFFERENT color LEDs to signify what mode it's in, I don't have to try to read print that's on the stick.

 

The SAFE button cover over the launch button finally works like it should have on the previous sticks.

 

The fact that you lock out the twist function. When I get pedals again I have that option.

 

That's all I can think of. Obviously most of this is personal preference, but I don't think I'm alone.

[condor11]

The fact that you lock out the twist function. When I get pedals again I have that option.

 

Really, can you give more details? I'd like to lock it 'cause I already have pedals.

[emenance]

ok tallyho :) , check out the reviews they dont lie as far as i can tell , the whole thing is smoother period. Profiles on the lcd , and as i said before plus the sensors in the stick as alot better technology when they are working, my rudder sensor flaked out on my but they are taking care of it support is awsome so far.

 

Condor :) look up some reviews , to lock the rudder there is a button on the side of the stick [physical lock]. You just push it into place. Since i have never locked it I cant say anymore.

[Sleek]

Really, can you give more details? I'd like to lock it 'cause I already have pedals.

ok...on the left hand side of the stick under where it says saitek x52 and above the spring there's a small silver piece of plastic (like the one at the base of the hand rest..which is fixed by the way) just pull it out to the left and there..uv'e just locked the rudder twist ;)

[504MrWolf]

Ive had my X45 for 2.5 years now.

 

Ive had to send the throttle back 2-3 times for a faulty connector and its had new indents, the stick has been faultless.

 

The style of the X52 is stopping me from buying it as im not into starfighters ;) but i know from personal friends they are 10times better than the X45, more accurate and lighter and better quality.

 

For me when my X45 dies i will look to CHProducts for my new setup.

[Tallyho1961]

The style of the X52 is stopping me from buying it as im not into starfighters

 

I agree 100%. I'm hearing good things about the X52 in the last few posts - especially in-game profile swapping :) - but I've never been able to get over the X52's discotheque styling.

 

In my opinion, the Saitek HOTASs are the best value on the market for those not quite ready or able to go the CH or Cougar route, but their product design instincts are just terrible.

 

I even went to the trouble of covering the blue top surfaces on my X45 with black adhesive paper because I couldn't stand the look. That one cosmetic change makes the X45 look like a serious piece of flight equipment versus a toy.

 

Why they don't base their HOTAS designs on either a) a modern jet or b) a WWII prop plane (not likely, I realize, but a guy can dream) instead of some sort of half-assed space-buggy I'll never know.

 

I realize aesthetics have no bearing on functionality in this case, but I'm into aesthetics, so what can I say?

[Manny]

To be brutally honest, I miss some of the features of my X45. Mainly the rotaries that I had mapped to trim. And the throttle worked in an arc. But I killed 3 of them in 1.5 years.

 

Lol what did you do Rugg to go through 3 X45s in 1.5 years? Man you must have been overly aggressive at tryin to get that Tunguska kill with a Maverick or realized it was the X45 that was shooting your Mavs down instead and took out some frustration out on it .. LOL :icon_wink

 

I still have my original X45 and what I appreciate about it so much is not only the most obviously easy programming experience one can ever have but the functionality of the throttle although, for you die hard Russian aviation buffs, the CH Pro Throttle slides forward and aft, very reminiscent of the aircraft we fly in the sim...

 

Well, till then, I continue to read :icon_jook

[Manny]

Re: the above suggestion about modifying your X-45 spring force with zip ties, here's a link that will help: http://members.chello.at/dolphin6/mod_spring/

 

I did this and found it to be a great improvement.

 

Tally, well done. Very useful info. This may solve my problem with friction build-up on the spring guide and retaining plate making very fine movement impossible and turning smooth analoguie control into digital steps.

[Manny]

TH GOOD:

The spring rate is fine once you get used to it. I never bought the X45 because I hated how heavy the spring was, but that's more personal preference.

 

Is the spring similar to the X45 but Saitek redesigned the spring guide and plate such that movement is finer but there is still a stiff feel to a new X52?

 

Twisty stick isn't as bad as I thought, at first I didn't like it. After getting used to it, it's okay because the tension is strong enough that you don't move it when you're trying to do something else.

 

I am glad, based upon your comment further down, that I can disable the stick twist. I never liked it when I owned a Microsoft Sidewinder.

 

The LCD is useful in that I can switch between different profiles in game (A10, Su25T, F15) pretty easily.

 

Can yuo provide more detail on the LCD? It appears to dominate a majority of the base of the throttle.

 

The Stick is more comfortable than the X45/36 Everything feels right where it should be, maybe because it's adjustable;)

 

This is an interesting observation. It doesn't look more comfortable. Can you expound on the "Safe Mode" button you mentioned in your opinion works as it should now?

 

 

 

ThE BAD:

X45/36 Throttle to me is more comfortable (go figure, the stick gets better the throttle gets worse.)

 

That is not a positive sign.

 

There is a twisty stick

 

Toggle switches to me are nice, but akward to get to. I always have to look at them to know which one i'm pressing. The precision slider is weird sometimes as well.

 

When I looked at a picture of the stick, it appeard one would have to remove their hand from the stick just top manipulate certain features???

 

The detents aren't as strong as the X45/36 I always feel as though I never really know where the afterburner is even with the friction knob turned all the way up.

 

This is not really a sticking point for me

 

Mouse wheel doesn't work as well as I'd like

 

Can you compare that to the mouse on the X45 please?

 

The newer drivers/software can be a nightmare to get set up correctly depending on your system.

 

Hmmm....this should be the easy part since it it easy on the X45.

 

 

THE AWESOME:

 

Price. For what you get it's hard to beat.

 

Interesting

 

Mounting holes to attach the controllers to to my chair made my life better.

 

That seems kewl

 

The mode switch is finally in a place that makes sense to me and since it has DIFFERENT color LEDs to signify what mode it's in, I don't have to try to read print that's on the stick.

 

The SAFE button cover over the launch button finally works like it should have on the previous sticks.

 

The fact that you lock out the twist function. When I get pedals again I have that option.

 

That's all I can think of. Obviously most of this is personal preference, but I don't think I'm alone.

[Manny]

I agree 100%. I'm hearing good things about the X52 in the last few posts - especially in-game profile swapping :) - but I've never been able to get over the X52's discotheque styling.

 

In my opinion, the Saitek HOTASs are the best value on the market for those not quite ready or able to go the CH or Cougar route, but their product design instincts are just terrible.

 

I even went to the trouble of covering the blue top surfaces on my X45 with black adhesive paper because I couldn't stand the look. That one cosmetic change makes the X45 look like a serious piece of flight equipment versus a toy.

 

Why they don't base their HOTAS designs on either a) a modern jet or b) a WWII prop plane (not likely, I realize, but a guy can dream) instead of some sort of half-assed space-buggy I'll never know.

 

I realize aesthetics have no bearing on functionality in this case, but I'm into aesthetics, so what can I say?

 

Tally I feel your pain bro .. I too will reserve my next purchase to a CH only as I read the Cougar and Thrustmaster are best left alone and the X52 is far too stylized for a flight control system. Perhaps CH is all that remains for someone seeking quality, ease of use, and durability.

 

Oh well, I will cross that bridge to CH when my X45 is ready to retire to HOTAS boneyard.

[NEODARK]

I can vouch for the X52,

 

I had mine for about a month and a half now, and its an awesome stick. Once you get it at home, it doesnt look as "spacey" as you'd think. ANother important note is that you can change the brighness of the leds/display with software or turn completely off if you wish.

 

I was iffy a tad when I first saw the design, too many pretty blue lights, but after getting it, I couldn't be happier.

 

The way they designed the single spring on the stick is awesome. I dont know why nobody thought of this before, but it gives you a smooth motion/resistence in any position it's in. (aka you can have it fully to the right and it will be the same exact pressure/feel as it if was only about 10%)

 

it's pretty damn smooth, and once you configure it correctly its freaking awesome.

 

I've tried the CH stuff at a friends house and it was pretty damn cool, but... I like my X52 better just because the ultra smoth feel of the stick, and it doesnt take a heck of a lot of strenght to move as others, so smooth.

 

if you have a chance try 'em out and decide. I couldn't be happier with mine. Now I just need a new TIR and I'll be set.

[Manny]

I can vouch for the X52,

 

I had mine for about a month and a half now, and its an awesome stick. Once you get it at home, it doesnt look as "spacey" as you'd think. ANother important note is that you can change the brighness of the leds/display with software or turn completely off if you wish.

 

I was iffy a tad when I first saw the design, too many pretty blue lights, but after getting it, I couldn't be happier.

 

The way they designed the single spring on the stick is awesome. I dont know why nobody thought of this before, but it gives you a smooth motion/resistence in any position it's in. (aka you can have it fully to the right and it will be the same exact pressure/feel as it if was only about 10%)

 

it's pretty damn smooth, and once you configure it correctly its freaking awesome.

 

I've tried the CH stuff at a friends house and it was pretty damn cool, but... I like my X52 better just because the ultra smoth feel of the stick, and it doesnt take a heck of a lot of strenght to move as others, so smooth.

 

if you have a chance try 'em out and decide. I couldn't be happier with mine. Now I just need a new TIR and I'll be set.

 

NEO, thanks for sharing the info bud. I am glad to read the brightness of the LEDS can be turned completly off and Saitek thought of that for those not interested in lighting their sim area like it's Christmas.

 

I can attest to the single spring design and the smooth, constant force of the X45 I own though I am having probs with friction at it ages. Glad to know the gimble is nothing like Courgar -- yuck.

 

How smooth compared to the X45? Smoother? I will have to check one out on display at Best Buy or CompUSA.