Saitek X52

[159_Archer]

Now I just need a new TIR and I'll be set.

 

You make sure you DO get TIR. It's an absolute must.:)

When you've had it a month, you'll wonder how you ever did with out it!

 

I have been thinking of swapping my X45 as it needs constant repair.

Is the X52 more reliable, and does it have at least as many buttons and options?

[Manny]

You make sure you DO get TIR. It's an absolute must.:)

When you've had it a month, you'll wonder how you ever did with out it!

 

I have been thinking of swapping my X45 as it needs constant repair.

Is the X52 more reliable, and does it have at least as many buttons and options?

 

I have miced emotions about TrackIR. I may need to purchase a larger moinitor (17" currently) but the awkward head movement and eye coordination is at times dizzying. I have to learn to move my head and scan with my eye balls as I am too much trying to look around as if I was in an old Cessna 182. Translating those movements to the game is not easy especially when you are now lookin all over the place for baddies.

 

I think I will limit TrackIR for straight and level moments in game and switch it off when I get into combat. I still reference the keyboard for things I would not put on a stick such as gear, certain view and visibility commands, flaps, etc. and having to look down, then look up and recenter my head to know where I am is daunting. An eyeball tracker would be better hehe.

 

Plus u can't shift in your seat and u must remain perfectly still with only your head moving or when u come back to center, forward view, it will be skewed and u have to recenter it again. Man that is too much to handle when I am in combat. Also, with the addition of padlock view in may hard core sims, TrackIR is totally unnecessary and I find the padlock in IL2 and Lock-On better than TrackIR.

[NEODARK]

Yeah,

 

"TIR" is def on my list, but so is XBox360 and other stuff, tons of $$ and I'm going to end up broke :p

 

The X52 is smoother than then X45, at least it feels that way (I never had much time with the X45, but for what I experienced its totally worth it.) Send a PM to "KILSEK" he can give you better feedback there, as he had the X45, but went out and got the X52 after I kept saying how great it was, and has not regreted it since. I remember him saying it was definitely smoother.

 

also the other great thing over the X52 is that it uses HAL sensors, so they will not wear out like CH sticks and the like with potentiometers (you should see how much $$ these people pay to have thier CH sticks retrofited with HAL's)

 

Anyway, let me know if you have any more questions :)

[Tallyho1961]

I gotta chime in on the TrackIR aspect of this discussion.

 

It's pretty fair to say that I wouldn't be simming today if I hadn't bitten the bullet just over a year ago and purchased a TIR3 Pro. I had been flying IL2 on and off for about nine months and while I was having fun with it, I wasn't yet a committed flight simmer.

 

That completely changed when I got my TIR; it literally opend the world of flight simming for me. Please note: I well realize that many fly superbly without one and without complaint. My remarks are not intended to cause any offence to these fine pilots. Maybe because I'm a little older (the hint is in my nickname) I just didn't have the patience to use a hatswitch to follow a bandit. Just tooling around was OK, combat was a sore trial. I should add that I don't use padlock - personal preference, that's all.

 

The TIR did several things:

 

1. Increased my sense of immersion tremendously.

2. Simplified my HOTAS profile.

3. Made me a better pilot by allowing me to follow a fast-moving bandit without thinking about it.

 

It took me a couple of hours to get used to the TIR - at first I was dizzy and figured it would have to go back - but I stuck with it, tweaked the sensitivities and have never looked back. I do have the TIR re-center command mapped to my HOTAS and use it quite often - but it's become an automatic reflex - kind of like regular saving in a Word document.

 

If my TIR broke, I would not fly until its replacement arrived.

 

Last month I added a voice activated command software to my setup and it has had a similar effect on the flight sim experience:

 

1. I now issue voice commands with my voice (like looking with my eyes)

2. Further simplified my HOTAS profile (In fact, there are 150+ radio commands in IL2 and a similar number in LOMAC) Anyone who can punch out a three or four key sequence in the middle of a dogfight with both hands occupied is a better man than I.

3. Made me more effective - offline anyway - by giving me full command of my wingmen. I keep a hard copy list of the available commands next to me and just tell them what I need them to do. And change my mind whenever it suits me.

 

I'm an immersion-buff when it comes to flight simming and for my money there's nothing better than: looking with my eyes, talking with my voice and flying with my hands and feet.

 

S!

[Manny]

Yeah,

 

"TIR" is def on my list, but so is XBox360 and other stuff, tons of $$ and I'm going to end up broke :p

 

The X52 is smoother than then X45, at least it feels that way (I never had much time with the X45, but for what I experienced its totally worth it.) Send a PM to "KILSEK" he can give you better feedback there, as he had the X45, but went out and got the X52 after I kept saying how great it was, and has not regreted it since. I remember him saying it was definitely smoother.

 

also the other great thing over the X52 is that it uses HAL sensors, so they will not wear out like CH sticks and the like with potentiometers (you should see how much $$ these people pay to have thier CH sticks retrofited with HAL's)

 

Anyway, let me know if you have any more questions :)

 

Whoa NEO are u sure Saitek put Hall sensors in their X-52? If so then I am gonna get one cause I do not like POTs period. I would like to retrofit my CH Flight Sim Yoke with Hall sensors.

 

If Saitek is building their HOTAS with Hall sensors, then this is the system I want. I want a Cougar too but there are problems though I might try one out and retrofit it with a Hall mod

[Yellonet]

Whoa NEO are u sure Saitek put Hall sensors in their X-52? If so then I am gonna get one cause I do not like POTs period. I would like to retrofit my CH Flight Sim Yoke with Hall sensors.

 

If Saitek is building their HOTAS with Hall sensors, then this is the system I want. I want a Cougar too but there are problems though I might try one out and retrofit it with a Hall mod

I think they use optic sensors, not Hall sensors, but those should be frictionless too I guess.

[Pilotasso]

I can vouch for the X52,

 

The way they designed the single spring on the stick is awesome. I dont know why nobody thought of this before, but it gives you a smooth motion/resistence in any position it's in. (aka you can have it fully to the right and it will be the same exact pressure/feel as it if was only about 10%)

 

it's pretty damn smooth, and once you configure it correctly its freaking awesome.

 

Aw man, I think thats horrible... When i turn hard I like to fell the stress of it on the sticks tension...can this be changed by adjustings/MOD?

[NEODARK]

@ Yellonet Its either HAll or whatever, I think Hall though I'll see if I find the link to the review where I saw it, but its definitely not POTS that wear out.

 

@ Pilotasso : Not sure how to explain it, thats why I say definitely see if you can try it first hand. The best way I can think of describing it, is: the "tension delivery" that occurs when pulling the stick is pretty damn nice and smooth whatever position the stick is in, it's precise.

 

To me it feels definitely smoother in the way it reacts to your movements, at least it feels that way to me. The spring setup in it its pretty intersting as its right in the center as opposed to having separate springs for pitch and yaw like other sticks

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, the stick is light. specially when you are used to really pull on other sticks, there is much less tension, but it's something you get used to pretty fast. However, if you decide its too light for you, you can simply add some washer or somthing between the spring and stick for extra resistance, with no loss of control or finesse.

 

I hear the best of the best is CH, but for me its something I dont want to spend the money on, when my cheaper solution is just great. And this stick is just that, great...

[Yellonet]

@ Yellonet Its either HAll or whatever, I think Hall though I'll see if I find the link to the review where I saw it, but its definitely not POTS that wear out.

 

@ Pilotasso : Not sure how to explain it, thats why I say definitely see if you can try it first hand. The best way I can think of describing it, is: the "tension delivery" that occurs when pulling the stick is pretty damn nice and smooth whatever position the stick is in, it's precise.

 

To me it feels definitely smoother in the way it reacts to your movements, at least it feels that way to me. The spring setup in it its pretty intersting as its right in the center as opposed to having separate springs for pitch and yaw like other sticks

Ok, just checked the swedish Saitek site and it says that it uses optical sensors, but when I checked the english site it only said non-contact sensors. Stupid translators :icon_evil

So you are probably right.

[Guest ruggbutt]

Lol what did you do Rugg to go through 3 X45s in 1.5 years?

It sounds like I was hard on them but I wasn't. I just flew a whole heck of a lot. I had the warranty so when one button would start to not function I took it back. The stick itself wasn't worn out, but usually one or more of the buttons were. I also used the zip tie fix to ease up the stick pressure. It was a fantastic relatively inexpensive stick. At the time I was just getting back into F/S's so I didn't wanna spend the big bucks for controllers, just in case I changed my mind. Now that I'm sticking with them again I bought the best. CH.

[Pilotasso]

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, the stick is light. specially when you are used to really pull on other sticks, there is much less tension, but it's something you get used to pretty fast. However, if you decide its too light for you, you can simply add some washer or somthing between the spring and stick for extra resistance, with no loss of control or finesse.

 

Actualy I have a TM afterbuner (yuck... I know!:icon_roll ) Its springs are very light as well. Though the tension is not consistent. Its odd, when I do full pitch I get the sensasion of nill lateral tension.It has tension adjustment but the dial under the stick is virtualy useless. I can hardly feel any difference. Used to have a TM X-fighter stick (F-4 replica) and that was HEAVY tension. SO heavy that the spings tension broke their holders 1 year after I bough it...just days after warranty expired... LOL

 

On a side note, all my TM stick either broke like this, but I had one wich I ripped right from the base in the midle of a dogfight...a tough one too...bugger!:rolleyes:

[159_Archer]

 

Last month I added a voice activated command software to my setup and it has had a similar effect on the flight sim experience:

 

1. I now issue voice commands with my voice (like looking with my eyes)

2. Further simplified my HOTAS profile (In fact, there are 150+ radio commands in IL2 and a similar number in LOMAC) Anyone who can punch out a three or four key sequence in the middle of a dogfight with both hands occupied is a better man than I.

3. Made me more effective - offline anyway - by giving me full command of my wingmen. I keep a hard copy list of the available commands next to me and just tell them what I need them to do. And change my mind whenever it suits me.

 

S!

 

Blimey!...You can order the wingmen around with voice commands?

 

I didn't know that was possible.:o

 

I do know about voice commands for PC's, but how does that work in Lock-on?

[emenance]

lol Yeah I wouldnt worry anout the style of the stick , it looks great at home or turn off the led if ya want all my friends think its cool.

 

Besides it sits next to a black case with 3 acrylic windows and with blue lights inside and stuff. Add speaker lights modem lights and what ever else and I can say my desk table looks like a a Disco bar!!!!! LOL

[Tallyho1961]

Blimey!...You can order the wingmen around with voice commands?

 

I didn't know that was possible.:o

 

I do know about voice commands for PC's, but how does that work in Lock-on?

 

The best thing is they can't answer back :cool:

 

Here's the link: http://www.dwvac.com/

 

The program, which was created by an IL2 community member, costs ten bucks and is very easy to setup. Basically, if you have a microphone, you're in.

 

You will first need to let the software learn your voice by following a series of automated exercises.

 

Once it's got the hang of your voice - it took me less than an hour - you proceed to build a profile be typing in your series of commands one at a time, say, "Tower, Enfield One One, request takeoff permission" etc.

 

Once that's done you'll go back and record the vocal equivalent for each command.

 

Finally, you'll associate the appropriate key stroke sequence with each command. (I created a list of commands and keystrokes in a Word document to make the process easier).

 

In the end, you'll wind up with a profile that consists of a list of commands, a vocal 'test' will have been recorded for each, and each will have a matching keystroke set.

 

Before firing up LOMAC, you'll plug in your microphone, load the VAC software and activate your profile.

 

Once in the 'pit you speak your command and voila - the game responds to your every wish.

 

It's very cool.

 

To increase the immersion factor, I dug around in the Sounds folder and figured out how to disable the audible repeat of my own commands and the on-screen text confirmation. That makes it even cooler.

 

The only thing we can't turn off - which is a shame - is the menu that appears as the more complex commands are spoken. Maybe this can be toggled in a future patch. I keep meaning to suggest it.

 

I think VAC is a vastly over-looked flight simming utility. Once you realize you can issue 150 odd commands just be speaking, you gain real control over your mission.

 

The whole process from downloading the program to finishing my profile was about three hours work.

 

You'll find the odd time VAC won't hear you , but I've discovered that if I enunciate clearly this virtually never happens.

 

Then again, we sometimes need to repeat ourselves in real life, don't we?

[emenance]

Blimey!...You can order the wingmen around with voice commands?

 

I didn't know that was possible.:o

 

I do know about voice commands for PC's, but how does that work in Lock-on?

 

 

Yeah man this is my second attempt or program that i have treid , im sticking with this one just like alot of people are.

 

http://www.dwvac.com/ they even have a flaming cliffs profile for it.

 

Read the read me and the faq.

 

In my case im going to have to put in my own voice so it recognizes me, because after going through the process of getting the program to learn your voice I couldnt get it to do anything but when I pick a command and read the line, save and then close it ....it works perfectly. Im still new with it , takes time to set up so be patient. Its only 10 bucks heres a review .

http://www.airwarfare.com/AWX/features/reviews/vac_review.htm

 

Im a little surprised they say it wont work in win 2000.

[eric37a]

Manny-

 

Is the spring similar to the X45 but Saitek redesigned the spring guide and plate such that movement is finer but there is still a stiff feel to a new X52?

 

No, not at all. It is very light a CH stick might be lighter, but the spring tension has remained consistent for as long as I've had it (about 8 months)

 

Can you provide more detail on the LCD? It appears to dominate a majority of the base of the throttle.

 

It has the function of a clock on the bottom with the ablility to switch between 3 different time zones. There is also a stopwatch. Useful to some, but I just use it as a general clock. In the middle is the info center part which tells you what profile is loaded and what function a button has but only while that button is being pressed. The top simply tells you what mode you're in. The best part to me is the ability to navigate/load the different profiles in the info center part. All you do is press the "i" button on the throttle and navigate around with the primary hat switch.

Can you expound on the "Safe Mode" button you mentioned in your opinion works as it should now?

Certainly. The cover locks in the position you want it. You flick it up with your thumb and it stays up. You put it back down with your thumb and it stays down and doesn't flop around like my old X36 did.

 

When I looked at a picture of the stick, it appeard one would have to remove their hand from the stick just top manipulate certain features???

If you want to use either the buttons on the base or the toggle switches, you will have to remove a hand.

Mouse wheel doesn't work as well as I'd like

Can you compare that to the mouse on the X45 please?

 

Can't really help you there. I only had an x36. It didn't have a mouse wheel. The x52 as you scroll the mouse wheel will register a button push every couple of clicks, so it works, but I was hoping more of a smooth action so I could use it to zoom smoothly. But the precision slider acomplishes that pretty well, so I really shouldn't complain. The rest of the mouse is the same as the x45/36 as far as I can tell except that you can't program it as a hat switch. You have to use bands to get individual key presses. Annoying, but not unworkable.

The newer drivers/software can be a nightmare to get set up correctly depending on your system.

 

Hmmm....this should be the easy part since it it easy on the X45.

 

Well, the drivers and software that come with it are fine. The updated drivers and software have caused problems to some (myself included). The new driver is downloaded through winupdate and didn't work for me. I had to completely clear out the registry and harddrive of the new drivers simply to go back to old ones. I've heard that another driver/software update is coming up soon, but who knows when.

 

I think I need to write longer posts. What, like 1000 words for 2 posts?:icon_wink

[Manny]

I think I need to write longer posts. What, like 1000 words for 2 posts?:icon_wink

 

:) Eric can you tell me what the precision slider does? It is mapped to a particular function? Man I shoul dnever have owned the X45 cause I am so used to it the X52 just looks completely foreign, an antirely different product certainly not following a particular design format.

[Manny]

Actualy I have a TM afterbuner (yuck... I know!:icon_roll ) Its springs are very light as well. Though the tension is not consistent. Its odd, when I do full pitch I get the sensasion of nill lateral tension.It has tension adjustment but the dial under the stick is virtualy useless. I can hardly feel any difference. Used to have a TM X-fighter stick (F-4 replica) and that was HEAVY tension. SO heavy that the spings tension broke their holders 1 year after I bough it...just days after warranty expired... LOL

 

On a side note, all my TM stick either broke like this, but I had one wich I ripped right from the base in the midle of a dogfight...a tough one too...bugger!:rolleyes:

 

:p Man they should lock you up for general flight controller abuse .. lol

 

I have been hard on sticks before myself and broken my share. I don't know what it is with Thrustmaster and their hard-on for heavy spring force. It's like "only real men use big springs" :confused: Then once yer done, back on the ground, you take your death-grip off stick to find it mashed and imprinted in your palm and your right arm noticeable larger then your left.

 

Ohh well I am a fan of light spring forces for that light touch on the stick and subtle movements. I suppsoe you could make fine adjustments with a stock Cougar but you would probably end up with carpal tunnel afterward.

[NEODARK]

The precission slider is good for stuff like mapping your "zoom" to it. But anything else can be mapped to it as well.

[Pilotasso]

 

Ohh well I am a fan of light spring forces for that light touch on the stick and subtle movements. I suppsoe you could make fine adjustments with a stock Cougar but you would probably end up with carpal tunnel afterward.

 

I had about 4 versions of the TM's F4 replicas. 3 had considerable spring tension and the X-fighter had heavy tension. I also learned that I disliked heavy tensions as much as light tension, because in gaming I would become tired after a hard fight. I also fly fast paced space sims and in the year I had that stick I developed the "violin crab sindrome" i.e. right arm muscle buildup much more pronounced that the left.:biggrin:

 

While Im badly used to heavy springs I also learned to hate light ones, and my current Stick is paying for it. One of these days Ill crush it by the pressure of my fist during an intense online dogfight. Its already making cracking sounds...:icon_roll

[Manny]

One of these days Ill crush it by the pressure of my fist during an intense online dogfight. Its already making cracking sounds...:icon_roll

 

LOL .. That would be a sight to see. When I owned a $15 dollar variety, it performed the same way, cracking sounds, and I finally managed to lift the gimble out of the housing one day while pulling back on the stick. Though the stick still worked, it was never the same :(

[eric37a]

The precission slider is good for stuff like mapping your "zoom" to it. But anything else can be mapped to it as well.

 

Exactly. It functions as another axis on the throttle, like a rotary but it slides on a flat plane. It has very little resistence too. I personally have it set to radar range or flir zoom in helicoptor sims. It's a little un-ergonomic at times, but nothing to really worry about.

 

Ohh well I am a fan of light spring forces for that light touch on the stick and subtle movements. I suppsoe you could make fine adjustments with a stock Cougar but you would probably end up with carpal tunnel afterward.

 

:)If you like light springs, then you would be happy with the X52 in that area. I'm much better at carrier landings because of the precison I can achieve now.

[Shaman]

Tally, well done. Very useful info. This may solve my problem with friction build-up on the spring guide and retaining plate making very fine movement impossible and turning smooth analoguie control into digital steps.

Even after modding my X-52 spring to reduce its strenght significantly, I still have friction between that spring's bottom plate and joystick base. Creating these unsmooth control, very annoyin during close formation flights where little inputs are necessary and you are constantly pullin on stick.

X-52 is pretty much the last plastic toy joystick I ever bought. Saitek didn't even do any complex tests on their stick, like in long formation flights etc. The materials used for plate and base are just giving so much friction. I'll go with full metal ones and no more Saitek, no no no. It's my 2nd X-52 and it's already partially broken, but that's other story.

[SuperKungFu]

kinda weird raising a 1 year old thread but if you don't like the plastic on the X-52, wait for the X-52 pro which suppose to have some metal. I just posted about it in the tech forum http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=17672

[Pilotasso]

There seems to be no change in functionality apart from external looks.