Radar working differently in FC3 than FC2?

[ralfidude]

I'm very hesitant to call this a bug, and say that it is the way it should be but just to make sure:

 

Has the radar on the planes changed since FC2?

 

 

 

It seems that radar detection has been reduced significantly.

 

 

In an F-15, I have conducted multiple tests to see how effective the radar is and have found that targets appear to be invisible until they reach about 45 miles closure, head on.

 

Yet, the RWR is screaming at me that they are scanning me from over 100 miles away.

 

I have fiddled with the radar making the scan zone smaller and faster, changed my planes altitude to lower and higher than the target (since I've been told the F-15 has trouble scanning targets at low altitude), have tried this in TWS, and have even tried to go angle off and bank back at the target from an angle of 20 degrees. Yet no matter what I do, I cannot get the target to show up unless he is around 45 miles away from me.

 

 

There are also times where the "3" function radar mode fails to see a target right infront of its nose. WELL within visual range, on a tail on situation, or it takes more than 4 seconds for it to figure out something is even there.

 

 

In another situation, when in a MP server, sometimes there are times where I pick up an ECM target, then get close enough where I burn through it, the target now appears as a solid bar on the radar, however upon selecting it, the radar takes back what it's showing and instead considers it still an HOJ mode target, even though the target is continually coming at me, and should have burned through the ECM already as the radar showed me anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get similar results in the SUs, where targets appear on radar yet they cannot be locked up, and then they just disappear all together.

 

 

We also get weird results when flying head to head from a far distance and we appear and disappear from radar though none of us are changing directions or altitudes, and we try this in the different Russian radar modes, high and low frequency, and tweaking the radar number settings on the right side, though you usually don't need to change that beyond +/- 2. Not that we had to, to begin with we were at the same altitude coming head on at each other. We also tried to do angle off.

 

 

 

 

 

PS: All of these situations we tested out at about medium to low altitude, but not lower than 5 thousand feet, with ECM off, except for the MP moments that I mentioned where we were in a MP server against ECM targets, where the radar would fake a burn through and still consider it a HOJ target.

 

 

 

 

Therefore, am I just being a silly Billy and this is just how it is, or are there currently a few issues and bugs since this is still a Beta?

Edited November 12, 2012 by ralfidude

[Kuky]

I can't comment on all of your questions but I can answer a few:

 

You having someone's nails (radar signal from other aircraft showing on your RWR) doesn't mean he can see you on his radar. First the radar signal will just apear as it's just within max radar signal range... then as it gets closer this signal gets stronger (more radar energy being reflected) anad at some distance (this should depend on rcs of the object) this signal will be strong enough to be processed and established as a "contact"... but you still won't be able to lock it... so little closer again you get even better signal and you're finally able to lock onto the contact. You can extend or shorten this distance at which radar will see the contact and be bale to lock onto it, by picking corresponding PRF (hi for incomming contact and low for receeding contact).

 

This has been like this back in FC2 so nothing new in FC3.

 

Also when you lock onto someone who is jamming and in burnthough, do you place cursor over the contact or over flashing strobe lines? I believe if you lock onto the strobe lines you are still locking into jamming signal and missile will go HOJ guidance.

 

And one reason why someone headin at you is dropping of radar scope... pay attention is he changing altitude (or are you), as long as your respective altitude difference keeps changing and yo don't compensate with vertical radar gimbals, at one point he will exit the radar scan zone and drop of your radar picture.

[ralfidude]

You see, none of that is happening mate.

 

 

Back in FC2 days you were able to actually detect someone well beyond 45 miles, now it's nearly impossible.

 

The whole ECM target is like this:

You pick up the ECM on radar as a vertical line of bars, I don't bother locking onto those targets, until I BURN through them, which means that on radar they now appear as a regular contact, a single bar, and no longer a jamming target. However there are times when this burned through target is selected, it still acts like an ECM target, and my radar goes into HOJ mode, even though the radar says it's a regular single bar target. You no longer see the vertical ECM bars. After waiting a bit more, it goes into regular radar mode. It's the most peculiar thing.

 

 

Now about the dropping in and out of radar, we tested this out and did it without changing altitudes at first. We just went at each other at the same altitude and speed and we were both experiencing failed locks, and drop outs.

When we tested this with the Russian planes, we were able to detect targets that were a bit further out than the F15s, but even in the different modes (High and low pulse frequency) made no difference with the drop in/outs. Seems though that the Russian radar is much more capable than the F15 at range currently.

 

 

 

The most annoying of all though, were the tests where I am in the F15 against an SU 27, same alt, and he has me locked up from miles away, my RWR is yelling at me that I have been targeted (solid lock), but my radar is completely and utterly blank for minutes on end, until I get much closer in, usually by that time, the SU has already fired at me, and I have yet to even see him on radar...

Edited November 12, 2012 by ralfidude

[311Gryphon]

I know this is an old post but I've been stumbling around the internet looking for some answers on similar things. The only decent video tutorials I've found (which were REALLY good) were from Lock On and FC2. The behavior in those videos is a bit different from what I'm seeing in FC3.

 

I'll echo what Ralfi has said here. No matter what mode I'm in I can't pick up contacts till about 45nm. Even when I'm building the missions and know EXACTLY where they are and what their elevation is and no matter where I put my scan height they just don't pick up until that range. I had a MiG 29 and a MiG 25 fire on me when they were outside this range. They never popped up on my radar at all but I was clearly on theirs. Part of this could be me but part of it just doesn't seem to match what I've seen in other videos.

 

Another thing that I'm not sure on is the azimuth scan width in TWS mode. The game only gives me a 60° sweep which matches something I read somewhere. But every video I've seen and the manual show a 120° sweep in TWS mode. When did this change? Or did it? Am I doing something wrong?

 

I haven't tested burning through an ECM target yet. I have used the HOJ mode to vector in on a target but that's it.

 

I've also had a target drop out of my radar in legitimate ways. Once I bumped the range in and lost the target under my radar and it took me a minute to notice. Another he maneuvered and I assume he went into the notch. I got him back after a few seconds.

 

Other than that I'll echo Ralfi's comments and hopefully someone who knows the answers can chime in.

[Ironhand]

I could be completely off base but the two aircraft you reference are very different from the F-15 (the aircraft whose radar I assume you're referring to). The MiG-29's RCS is much smaller than an either an F-15's or Su-27's. So, all things being equal, he'd see you before you'd see him. As for the MiG-25, if memory serves, that aircraft has a much more powerful radar than an F-15 leading to the same result.

 

The TWS sweep has, indeed, changed in recent (more or less) history although I'm not sure exactly when.

 

 

Rich

[104th_Maverick]

If you can't see targets passed 45 miles you are in the wrong PRF setting.

 

I / my squadron members have no issues aquiring and tracking targets outside of 45nm in the F-15C.

 

60nm is about the max range we can track in TWS.

 

See this post for more details on what you should be doing with your PRF settings...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1954142#post1954142

[311Gryphon]

I could be completely off base but the two aircraft you reference are very different from the F-15 (the aircraft whose radar I assume you're referring to). The MiG-29's RCS is much smaller than an either an F-15's or Su-27's. So, all things being equal, he'd see you before you'd see him. As for the MiG-25, if memory serves, that aircraft has a much more powerful radar than an F-15 leading to the same result.

 

The TWS sweep has, indeed, changed in recent (more or less) history although I'm not sure exactly when.

 

 

Rich

 

I was wondering about that. I've been playing around with different contacts and I was happy to see larger planes being picked up much further out. That makes complete sense.

 

Mav:

As far as the PRF is concerned I've read that if they are coming at you or going away the High PRF should be used. I guess my question is, wouldn't Interleave PRF pick them up a bit better no matter what aspect they are to you with the downside being that it takes longer to complete the scan and build the track? The reason I ask is that assuming you have no idea if someone is out there, or you know someone is out there but you don't know what their heading is, how would you know to change the PRF? Would you cycle through them and allow them to run a few scans before changing them? I know that if you start getting pinged on your RWR and that warning indicator doesn't move around the circle you will have a lot more information about their heading and can then change, but until that point you really have no clue. Would it be best to leave in Interleave?

 

I just had a bit of success against a MiG 29 and then against two MiG 29s. I only picked them up at about 30 miles so that's very short in my opinion. If it's realistic I'm good with it but it doesn't seem right. I was still able to lock them up and kill them but it would be nice to be able to have a bit more time to gather information on them.

 

Anyway, I'll play with PRF settings and see if that helps. I'm just very happy that I was able to get some kills on fighters that could shoot back finally. I did a little work in BVR and then in TWS mode, and one even slipped behind me after a close call with a slammer but somehow I managed to get an AIM-9M into him. It was a very motivating evening since I've been fighting this stuff all week.

 

Thanks, guys!

[Ironhand]

Glad you're finally having some success! That's always much better than feeling hopelessly behind the curve. :)

 

...I guess my question is, wouldn't Interleave PRF pick them up a bit better no matter what aspect they are to you with the downside being that it takes longer to complete the scan and build the track? The reason I ask is that assuming you have no idea if someone is out there, or you know someone is out there but you don't know what their heading is, how would you know to change the PRF? Would you cycle through them and allow them to run a few scans before changing them? I know that if you start getting pinged on your RWR and that warning indicator doesn't move around the circle you will have a lot more information about their heading and can then change, but until that point you really have no clue. Would it be best to leave in Interleave?

 

...

Use a high PRF, when you're sure that your quarry is approaching you; low, when you're sure that he's got his back toward you. Otherwise use interleaved because that'll find him quicker than being in the wrong PRF at the wrong time. If you're flying online with a wingman, one of you could stay in interleaved while the other was more selective. It's more important to be searching the entire volume of sky around you than be in anything other than interleaved. Failure to do so will probably get you killed quicker. The threat you don't see is a lot harder to defend against. :)

 

 

Rich

Edited October 24, 2014 by Ironhand

[311Gryphon]

 

Use a high PRF, when you're sure that your quarry is approaching you; low, when you're sure that he's got his back toward you. Otherwise use interleaved because that'll find him quicker than being in the wrong PRF at the wrong time. If you're flying online with a wingman, one of you could stay in interleaved while the other was more selective. It's more important to be searching the entire volume of sky around you than be in anything other than interleaved. Failure to do so will probably get you killed quicker. The threat you don't see is a lot harder to defend against. :)

 

 

Rich

 

That makes a ton of sense! Thanks.

 

Happy flying, everyone. :pilotfly: