Triple Screen + Touch - how would you set it up?

[Treudd]

Hello,

 

I would like to have the following screen layout using DCS World/A-10/FC3 etc.

I have all the screens. I have 2 GPU:s in Crossfire config. I have a pretty decent computer to run it on.

 

How can I setup this environment?

 

Should I use Helios? I guess I need it in order to have buttons alongside the MFD displays...

 

Should Crossfire be enabled or disabled?

 

Should I use ATI Eyefinity (in Crossfire I guess I need to run DCS in fullscreen mode, is that conflicting with Helios?) or SoftTH?

 

How should I config my display settings in DCS? FOV? How should I place my screens to minimize "warping effects"? Should I change settings in config files or in the options menu?

 

I know there are lot of setup guides and tutorials - but still, my MAIN QUESTION is this: How would YOU go about with this setup to maximise immersion, usability, image quality AND frame rate?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[nickmow]

Thats pretty much how I got mine setup, though I have 1 7870 card running eyefinity and it works for me. I use Hawgtouch for the UFC on the bottom monitor. Helios is a bit of a mystery to me. Cant seem to get it to input the buttons into the sim. I got the couger MFDs so have physical switches in place. Though as I understand it either Hawgtouch or Helios would do the job just fine if you go that way.

[GregP]

Treudd,

 

You've come to the right place -- I have exactly the setup that you're looking to create. My suggestion would be: forget about exporting MFDs onto the touchscreen, or using Helios, or using Hawgtouch or anything else. These are all unnecessary middlemen if you have 4 screens. Instead, render a T-shaped cockpit view where your instrument panel is on the touchscreen. This way you can naturally pan around the cockpit and directly interact with all of the cockpit switches without having to go through an intermediate layer.

 

I've got a short video showing this functionality

.

 

What it requires is SoftTH and some setup steps in your monitorsetup.lua file and your options.lua file. First off, is your touchscreen the same size as your other screens? And what is the combined resolution across your 3 upper displays when you add in bezel compensation? Knowing these details, I'll be able to easily create all the necessary config files for you.

[GregP]

OK, so here is how you'd setup your config files. For the sake of simplicity, I have neglected to use bezel compensation here, so your combined resolution is 5760x2160; hopefully from the way these files are set up, you can see how to change the relevant numbers based on whatever bezel compensation you eventually use. Also, if your touchscreen monitor is physically smaller than the upper three, there is a trick we can do to possibly save some FPS by running an overall lower resolution; so, let me know what your monitor sizes are.

 

\DCS World\bin\config.SoftTHconfig

[main]
renderResolution=5760x2160
nonlocalFormat=RGB16D
keepComposition=1
smoothing=1
debugD3D=0
zClear=1
vsync=0
tripleBuffer=0
screenshotFormat=bmp
dllPathD3D9=auto
dllPathDXGI=auto
dllPathD3D11=auto

[overrides]
forceResolution=0
antialiasing=0
anisotropic=0
processAffinity=1
FOVForceHorizontal=0
FOVForceVertical=0

[head_primary]
sourceRect=0,0,5760,1080
screenMode=5760x1080

[head_1]
devID=1
sourceRect=1920,1080,1920,1080
transportResolution=1920x1080
transportMethod=local
noSync=0

 

\DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\FourScreens.lua

_  = function(p) return p; end;
name = _('FourScreens');
Description = 'Four Screen Configuration'
Viewports =
{
    Center =
    {
         x = 0;
         y = 0;
         width = screen.width;
         height = screen.height;
         viewDx = 0;
         viewDy = 0;
         aspect = screen.aspect;
    }
}

Gui =
{
	x = 1920;
	y = 0;
	width = 1920;
	height = 1080;
}

UIMainView = Gui

 

C:\Users\[name]\Saved Games\DCS\Config\options.lua

Add these lines:

["multiMonitorSetup"] = "fourscreens",
["aspect"] = 2.6666666666,
["height"] = 2160,
["width"] = 5760,

 

Hopefully that helps. Let me know how it goes.

Edited November 17, 2012 by GregP

[Treudd]

Thanks alot Greg!

All my screens are full HD 1920x1080.

 

What is the benefit of using SoftTH? I don't understand why I should use it...

Ok, I'm starting to understand...

SoftTH is used to "fit" the image from DCS into the screen layout?

I see that DCS is outputting 5760x2160... interesting...

 

I'll try your config later today.

 

Thanks

Edited November 18, 2012 by Treudd

[GregP]

But what about the physical size of your monitors -- all the same? This is important because if they're different sizes, the images won't match up using the settings I've put above.

 

Regarding SoftTH: it's the only way, that I know of, to force DCS to render a larger area than you intend to display, and then being able to choose portions of that area to send to each monitor. By default DCS, and all games, presume that whatever resolution you set in-game, this is how much display area you want to fit onto your monitors; and additionally, games can't make use of an irregular desktop shape like the T-shape we're creating here. But with SofTH, you render a 5760x2160 area, output the top 5760x1080 to the upper monitors, the middle third of the bottom, i.e. 1920x1080, to the touchscreen, and essentially just discard the rest.

Edited November 18, 2012 by GregP

[Loz]

The main advantage that I have seen when I used SofTH was that you can still use the touch screen monitor calibration and it works properley.

If you render the same using eyefinity the monitor calibration extends to the whole of the four screens rendering it useless. (ie you can't touch the instruments on your fourth monitor to get them to work. The pointer appears elsewhere on the overall screens)

The thing that puts me off using it like this, is that because of your in game "eye" position, you seem to be looking down at the instrument panel at an acute angle.

 

Oh and I don't think anyone has answered you re crossfire.

If you run in fullscreen mode then it is definitely advantageous to DISABLE Crossfire, else the

framerate hit is enormous.

If you run in Windowed mode though (FullScreen box unticked) then it matters not as Crossfire enabled cards only run off one GPU in any case.

 

Hope that makes some sense. :)

[Cowboy10uk]

Wow, Greg, just had a look at your vid above, Nice setup. I thought you had to Helios or Hawgtouch to get touchscreen working in here. I am still planning to get a touch screen setup, once I find a monitor at a decent price, sadly Acer have stopped making the one I was planning to get. Guess I waited to long. :(

 

Anyway would that setup allow touchscreen control, with all buttons working and with ANY aircraft cockpit in DCS. I.E. Blackshark, A10, P51 and Huey when she lands, or does it only work on A10?

 

Currently running 3 x 1920 x 1080 screens on a nvidia GTX680 using Nvidia Surround. Am I right in guessing that to use this, I need to set it up using SoftTH instead?

 

I'm currently planning to use Loz's amazing profile when I get my touchscreen, But would love a setup that allows easy swappable cockpits, as I tend to jump about all my aircraft while in sim.

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited December 6, 2012 by Cowboy10uk

[Gadroc]

You've come to the right place -- I have exactly the setup that you're looking to create. My suggestion would be: forget about exporting MFDs onto the touchscreen, or using Helios, or using Hawgtouch or anything else. These are all unnecessary middlemen if you have 4 screens. Instead, render a T-shaped cockpit view where your instrument panel is on the touchscreen. This way you can naturally pan around the cockpit and directly interact with all of the cockpit switches without having to go through an intermediate layer.

 

Helios and Hawgtouch do have a few advantages over Greg's setup in my opinion.

 

1) TrackIR makes it difficult enough to hold your head still and click on the screen with the mouse, couple that with the more exaggerated gesture of moving your whole arm to click / touch a button and it's nearly impossible. This forces you to a carefully pan to the panel, pause TrackIR and then reach out to flip the switch. This can break the immersion and feel quirky to some.

 

2) With Greg's setup your gauges and switches are limited to the size determined by the in game zoom, head position and angle. This can make some pretty small targets for clicking which exacerbates issue #1. It can also render gauges at hard to read angles. This puts you in a battle between external visuals control and switch / gauge interaction. In a real pit you can glance just with your eyes and not get lost, but TrackIR & joystick pan control requires movement.

 

3) With a real cockpit a particular switch is always physically located at the same position. This makes it easy to have some muscle memory on how to flip that switch. It can be disorienting when all switches essentially occupy the same space. You move your head to determine which panel you're going to interact with instead of your arm. This again is an immersion breaker.

 

Helios and Hawgtouch fix all three of these problems very well, but you have to deal with setting up another program and that can be fiddly. The advantage is that fiddly is outside flight time instead of in it which is where the TrackIR and panel interactions are.

 

My recommendation is to try both types setups and see which one works better for you. Both Hawgtouch and Helios are free to setup and use. You only have to invest the time to try them.

[Cowboy10uk]

That's exactly what I'm planning Gadroc. I have Helios and Los's profile downloaded and ready to go the moment I get this damn touchscreen, should of happened months ago, but life got in the way.

 

Just open to other ideas as I want the easiest and best setup for me. Turning the PC on and messing around flying I'm fine with, it's just when we get into messing with internals and programming that I just get lost, very lost.

 

My plan is to try Helios on 4th screen with nvidia surround first, if that dosnt work, SoftTH, ( would prefere to use just one surround program for all games. although i know SoftTH dsnt like DX11 ) once I have that working, ill then do the same but with this setup, that way I should find which one i prefer.

 

My main concern is switching aircraft on server. Would love a solution that lets me fly the A10 with touchscreen, then once a crash or if I fancy say the P51 or BS, then to be able to select that from server screen and away I go.

 

Not entirely sure that's possible, but you never know.

 

Either way will be a great addition to how I fly at mo.

 

Can't Thankyou enough for designing and bringing Helios to the community.

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited December 6, 2012 by Cowboy10uk

[GregP]

Cowboy10uk,

With my setup, each aircraft should 'just work', because nothing in your configuration is changing. Any buttons or switches that are clickable in the game are now accessible via the touchscreen. And yes, you would have to use SoftTH to get the touchscreen working, but I haven't found any downside to that yet, aside from its inability to use DX11.

 

Gadroc,

Good points about the comparative features between the two setups. I agree with your points, but found it confusing to see two sets of gauges and MFCDs when I used Helios. I suppose the views could be tweaked to only present the HUD and so on on the upper monitors though. Regarding the need to be careful when zooming in and pausing TrackIR, you're right about that, but I've created a fairly simple system whereby with a single HOTAS button I can pause TrackIR and also enter 'precision mode' that dampens your TrackIR movements, which taken together, make using TrackIR use with this setup perfect, in my opinion.

 

Hope I didn't sound too dismissive of Helios etc. in my previous posts; in most cases I think it's an incredibly useful utility for sims like DCS. I just happen to feel that a T-shaped setup, where everything's rendered in 3D, feels more intuitive and realistic than having part of the pit in moveable 3D and part in static 2D. But obviously, it comes down to each individual's preferences.

[mue]

My experience is similar to what GregP wrote. I also tried a helios setup but wasn't fully satisfied with the immersion it gave me.

Now my setup is one very big touch screen with utilization of the clickable virtual in-game cockpits. My touch screen has the size of 1.4 meter x 0.8 meter. I sit at a distance of 0.7 meter from the screen. That gives me a real fov of 90 degrees. With the in game fov set to 90 degree, the cockpit and instruments appear in the same size like in real life. It's really quite immersive to look around in the cockpit and able to operate the switches, knobs and dials.

And yes, using the virtual cockpit with trackir is a little bit difficult at first, but you are getting used to it.

[GregP]

My god, 1.4m x 0.8m? That's a 63-inch monitor! What resolution do you run?

[mue]

My god, 1.4m x 0.8m? That's a 63-inch monitor! What resolution do you run?

 

Actually it's not a monitor. It's a rear projection screen with a full hd projector. So the resolution is 1920x1080. The touch functionality is diy: webcam + ir illuminator + software. See this thread.

[Cowboy10uk]

Sorry to reopen this, just wondering GregP, using your method, how much of a FPS hit is there compared to Helios?

 

As the PC will have to render 4 screens in 3D, rather than 3 screens and one in 2D.

 

I'm planning to try both ways, as certainly your way will be able to give me a full touchscreen cockpit, for the P51 and BS as well as all the extra aircraft we are hopefully be seeing soon.

 

However I really like the look of Loz's profile, so need to find what will suit me.

 

Then again, need to find a touchscreen monitor first. Damn things seem to have disappeared of the face of the earth with windows 8 coming out. :(

 

Hope you don't mind answering.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Cowboy10uk

[Cowboy10uk]

Well thanks to this thread, I've finally jumped and ordered a 24" 1920 x 1080 touchscreen monitor. Should be here within the week. :)

 

A huge thanks to PeterP, GregP and CapLoz, If it wasn't for you guys discussing the different setups, possibilities and profiles, not too mention showing your stunning vids, I would have never of gotten this far.

 

While she may not be the best home cockpit in the world, I think until I can get Room for a dedicated cockpit build, it will do for me.

 

Just some heli controls from Komodo sims, hen they are released and I should be set. :)

 

Thankyou again for everyone who has put up with my stupid questions over the years while I decided which route to take. :)

 

Cowboy10uk

[Manuel]

It would be kind of you to post some fotos of the finished setup for all to look how it went.

[TomDK]

It would be kind of you to post some fotos of the finished setup for all to look how it went.

 

 

Have a look in my footer, there are pics from my simpit with 3 monitors and a touchscreen using helios.

My problem was ... with softTH less frames and the old GPU was to slow. So I send the monitors back, the middle one was doing fine but the outsides were too slow. Now I have a 680 but no more the 3 monitors and will restart with a LED TV in 40".

 

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

BTW: As gadroc says ... Helios is great to operate the A-10 without keyboard ! I fly the Mustang on 2 screens without Helios and it is not so easy to operate as with Helios.

[metalnwood]

Cowboy, you can now play with settings until your heart is content :)

 

There is a drop off in FPS when you span the cockpit over the touchscreen as you then have to create a viewport of around 6000x2000 which is 12MP rather than a common ~8000x1000 (8 MP) used for a helios config.

 

I run with PLP so I use the resolution off all monitors but because of the orientation its ~ 4000x2200 which is nearly 9 MP but some way from 12.

 

Re using helios. It's free so I would try it for sure but donate if you decide to use it!

 

I prefer heiios when I have a profile. I set the headpoint in the lua so that I dont see two sets of mfd's/instruments when flying straight and level. When I dont have a helios profile then I do as PeterP and GregP.

 

What I dont like the most is moving my head around with track ir to be able to find stuff. With a setup like PeterP and GregP I think snapviews would work really well to position the panels on the touchscreen.

[GregP]

Sorry, hadn't checked this thread in awhile. As for FPS hit compared to Helios, I can't say. But in my standard simple takeoff mission, I can tell you that I get about 40 FPS at 5916x2160 resolution.

[GregP]

What I dont like the most is moving my head around with track ir to be able to find stuff. With a setup like PeterP and GregP I think snapviews would work really well to position the panels on the touchscreen.

 

Exactly right: snapviews are extremely useful on a setup like this. I've customized all of mine such that I can easily switch to a static view of the CDU, radios, or MFCDs on the touchscreen, making interacting with them that much easier.

[tromac2010]

Hi guys,

 

I've spent the last few days after work solidly reading all your posts on multi-monitor setup, and thank you for all the information. If I may explain my setup first and then explain the issues, and finally ask for your guidance.

 

I am running three 27" monitors @ 1920x1080 and then the 22.3" touchscreen @ 1920x1080 sitting below the middle monitor in the trio. All four are running through a GTX 680 card.

 

Now from my readings and finally getting a setup right I was able to use Nvidia Surround for the main view, then ran Helios on the touch screen. As I read in a topic (this one I think) the touchscreen doesn't work properly, instead you are now interacting on the main screen. I didn't see any solutions to this.

 

So I then tried SoftTH without Surround running and not using Helios. This works but I don't like it at all. I really want the touch screen to be running Helios. So would I be able to run SoftTH with all screens configured in a line so the resolution is 7680x1080 and then just set my .lua file correctly to display the MFD, etc on the touch screen?

 

Again, sorry for yet another multi-monitor question. It's driving me batty.

[tromac2010]

Almost works.... sigh. Setting it up with SoftTH for some reason the middle monitor from the main view shows as a grey background in the Loz profile for Helios. I can't work out how to turn that screen back on.

 

Change again.

 

I have returned to using Nvidia Surround and SoftTH. Now this is working and pressing on the touch screen switches the buttons. However it is not connecting to the sim at all :helpsmilie:

Edited February 14, 2013 by tromac2010

[danilop]

What about triple touch screens? Is it possible to have three touch screens working in Eyefinity / Surround?

 

Anybody tried setup like that? It seems the best possible solution in combination with TrackIR (you can temporarily disable trackir with predefined key if you can't hold it steady enough)

[-Hammer-]

Maybe this helps:

1) Open the Helios Profile Editior (HPE)

2) Make a new Profil (just nothing else)

3) In the Profile Tab goto -> Add Interface

4) Now you should see a List of Applications

5) Mark DCS A10C -> Add

6) Point to your DCS World Folder (Example: C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World) in the HPE

7) At your black screen (inside HPE) untick "Background (Fill)"

8) Open the HPE once again (DONT close the other HPE!!)

9) load the Loz Profile

10) Goto the Monitor, where the panels are (example: Monitor 1)

11) Press "Strg +A" (mark all)

12) Press "Strg + C" (copy all)

13) Goto the 1st HPE (the one with your new profile)

14) Press "Strg+V"

15) Save the new profile

16) Now it should work :)

 

Important: You have to open the HPE twice to copy the panels, etc...

 

Hope this helps

Edited February 17, 2013 by -Hammer-