Waypoint, Markpoint, Bullseye, Hook, etc...why?

[Pochi]

Hello All,

 

New to A10C, I am looking for some explanation about all the "points" that are used in the A10C. The manual is quite extensive about how to set up those "points" but what I am looking for is how they are used in the context of a mission and why. I mean, what is set up when the pilot start the mission and why, what does he sets up on the flight and why, etc. In others words, how do you use all those points in a mission. Not how to, but why :)

 

The best would be a detailed description of a "standart" mission scenario step by step with some explanations...do you know where I can find that?

 

Thanks,

 

best regards,

 

Pierre

[danny875]

Hi Pierre, I'm going to say first of all that there are a lot of people on here who know a lot more than me but I'll have a go at explaining of the top of my head what I use these points for.

 

Waypoints are pre-planned navigational points of reference for you to follow on route to your area of operation.

 

Markpoints are used to "mark" a point of interest, whether flying over an interesting area or an enemy sighting.

 

Bullseye is a pre-determined point in space used as a reference point for flights to relay positions, used as a bearing and distance from Bullseye eg: 125/35 = 135 degrees from Bullseye and at a distance from Bullseye of 35 miles.

 

Hook is a selected waypoint or markpoint etc on the moving map display. It is your sensor point of interest sometimes for example a waypoint selected will have a white symbol over it on the display and your weapons can be slaved to it.

 

Hope this gets you started, I'm sure others will be able to discribe better than I can.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan.

[Sierra99]

Markpoints are used to "mark" a point of interest, whether flying over an interesting area or an enemy sighting.

 

Are Markpoints based on SOI or physical Aircraft Position? I.E. If Im locked on a point with teh TGP and hit Mark, does it say the point I am looking at or where the airframe is?

 

Thanks

 

Sierra

[Priest]

If you hit the mark key on the UFC it creates a mark at aircraft position. HOTAS TMS Right creates a mark at the SOI (TAD, TGP, HUD) cursor position.

[dumgrunt]

I am assuming you are talking about campaigns etc

 

what I personally do (in the mission planner since it is much easier than pissing about with the CDU) is look at the advised flight path, then set up target reference points where known or likely enemy locations are ie IP TGT TRP1 TRP2 Egress etc so you can easly slew the SPI to that location.

 

another way to look at it, especially when doing a CAS mission profile is waypoints are for nav, markpoints are for targets. IE if you are searching for targets, you might make it a mark point, then keep searching, especially if there are known air defences in the area. that way you can easily slew the TGP back to the prior targets you found.

 

the other way to find enemy locations is of course by probing, but you are not only wasting the sensors you have but also the more concentrated the fire, the closer the mowing the lawn you will have to be. this not only nearly destroys all situational awareness, but also makings punching out an unlikely proposition if you wear good hit.

[roob]

Are Markpoints based on SOI or physical Aircraft Position? I.E. If Im locked on a point with teh TGP and hit Mark, does it say the point I am looking at or where the airframe is?

 

Thanks

 

Sierra

 

If used with the TGP it will mark the point you are looking at. I (almost) always use the laser along with marking a potential target so the markpoint hopefully can be used with bombs should the need arise.

 

Also, IIRC if not looking at anything with the TGP a mark will be created at the aircrafts position... Never done that intentionally though so I might've got that mixed with something else.

[PFunk1606688187]

Markpoint positional data is referenced from the airplane's assumed current position relative to the position on the map which should then be where you're pointing at. That is to say, that the aircraft is assuming everything based on the accuracy of the GPS and inertial guidance systems on board to create the mark point.

 

This leads to peculiarities that people don't recognize sometimes. The markpoint is by definition based on terrain and the computer knows the terrain elevations so it will automatically place the markpoint at the lowest ground level it can on the map at the position you're pointing at but if you're trying to mark a tank or a vehicle or a building this leads to the effect that if you're at a particularly acute slant angle to the target the markpoint will show up 'behind' it. This is why the laser is used, because the laser, if its in range, will tell the computer that there's a thing there and it'll put the mark point on it instead. If you don't use the laser then you have to imagine a boreline coming from the TGP that will go through the target and come out the other side and wherever this imaginary line hits the ground thats where the real mark point will be.

 

This is why its better to place markpoints from as close to a top down aspect as possible if you need it to be deadly accurate. Generally even if using the laser to make Markpoints if you fly orbits around a target you'll find that when you're 90 degrees to one side or the other you'll still see a deviation from the actual position of the target you marked, but it tends to be pretty small if the laser was in range. This is also why some people say they aim at the wheels or tracks, basically hitting the bit of the vehicle thats closest to the ground so that the imaginary boreline will basically come out the other side on the ground actually underneath the vehicle.

 

Also, IIRC if not looking at anything with the TGP a mark will be created at the aircrafts position... Never done that intentionally though so I might've got that mixed with something else.

Thats interesting, I've never tried that. There is a Mark button on the UFC that accomplishes this, but I never tried to do it with the HOTAS with TGP on STBY.

[BoneSaw]

Hello All,

 

New to A10C, I am looking for some explanation about all the "points" that are used in the A10C. The manual is quite extensive about how to set up those "points" but what I am looking for is how they are used in the context of a mission and why. I mean, what is set up when the pilot start the mission and why, what does he sets up on the flight and why, etc. In others words, how do you use all those points in a mission. Not how to, but why :)

 

The best would be a detailed description of a "standart" mission scenario step by step with some explanations...do you know where I can find that?

 

Thanks,

 

best regards,

 

Pierre

 

Man there's way too much information about the various "points" and "Hooking" to be delivered in a single post.

 

My recommendation if you're a visual learner is to watch the video I'll link at the bottom of this post. This is not a short video, it's about 40 minutes long but it is jam packed with all the information your asking about. So get yourself a beer and chill in front of the screen for a while.

 

The hooking information starts at about 23:20 but you'll need to watch the whole video as the concepts build on each other.

 

Have fun.

 

[Pochi]

Thank you for your answers everyone! This will be of great help :) I will watch the above video with attention, and then try by myself^^

 

Best regards,

 

Pierre

[ZaltysZ]

Waypoints:

 

1) General fight plan following

2) Tactical awareness: seeing flight plan, ingress/egress waypoints on TAD helps you in not wandering to deep into target area.

3) Marking general location of target, which you received over the radio. Someone tells you coordinates, you create new waypoint with them, then fly to it.

 

Mark points:

 

1) Quickly marking position of your aircraft. I.e. you are searching for targets in wide area and just found a tank platoon, so you just mark where you are, and send that point to friendlies.

2) Marking position of target. This is useful for:

2-a) cases when it is hard to maintain TGP lock and you have to make multiple passes. I.e. you are low or have to do sharp turns, and TGP gyro constantly messes up ending looking at sky or just floating around. So you mark, attack, turn around, TGP is messed up, but you just tell it to look at markpoint and it looks at target once again.

2-b) doing target approach from right direction (requirement either due to FAC commands or wind as it is easier to bomb without sidewind). So, you create markpoint, make it steerpoint, input course into HSI and make your approach.

 

Hooks:

1) Useful for tracking something you want to be aware of:

1-a) Easily checking your relative position to that "something" on TAD.

1-b) Having direction to that "something" on HUD without making it SPI. That something can be even your wingman (helps in avoiding collisions) or his SPI (i.e. wingman orbits around the column, having his TGP locked on moving target, and you hook his SPI, that way you have directional information to target and can do rapid gun runs).

Edited November 30, 2012 by ZaltysZ