Question for the hardware specialists

[zenTera]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of building a new rig, but I'm not sure, if it will really make sense or if I should just upgrade my system (if that is possible at all).

By now I have a stock discounter PC from "Aldi", Intel Pentium 4 3.4 HT, 1 Gig of Infineon RAM (not sure, I think it's CLK 2.5), don't know the manufacturer of the motherboard (Aldi/Medion seems to build their own boards), and the grafics card is a nVidea 6610 XL (seems to be a litttle bit better than the simplest 6600, not GT or something like that).

So, I definitely want to get a new card, the 7800 GTX (maybe the 512). This would surely mean,that I would have to get a new power supply, too (Enermax or the like). What do you think: Would it make sense to go from the Intel to an AMD 4000+? Would the AMD bring more performance than the Intel 3.4? If so, would the FX-55 be worth the 450,00 EUR it costs over the 4000+ or should I stay with the 4000+? If I would change to AMD I would like to get an ASUS A8N SLI board. What do you think of it? Can anyone tell me the difference between the standard, deluxe and premium version? And finally, is some special RAM from Corsair, Kingston etc. really better and worth the bucks than some Infineon or the like? If so, any recommendations which one to take with the AMD and the ASUS board?

I know that there are some people here that really seem to have great knowledge about computer hardware - hope you can share it with me and give some help.

Thanks in advance

Tom

[Cobra360]

I would highly advise you to go with AMD over Intel. AMD have better performance across the board and use less power. I would say go with the 4000+ wich is in reality a rebadged FX-53. The Asus A8N SLi is a great board on the market right now.

 

The differences are detailed in the links below.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=305264&cks=PRL

 

Deluxe

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=305190&cks=PRL

 

Premium

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310299&cks=PRL

 

The premium has better cooling if you want to overclock. I'd go with the deluxe version if you are not planning on any mojor overclocking.

 

The 7800GTX is a great card to get and the 512 versions which are clocked higher than the GTX with 256 RAM are faster than ATI's new top end card the X1800XT. But the 512 version are very expensive but they do give a good performance gain over the 256 GTX models.

 

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310704&cks=PRL

 

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315241&cks=PRL

 

 

And finally for the RAM, I'd say go with some good quality Corsair RAM.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300699&cks=SPC

 

Sorry for the brief answer but I'm in a bit of a rush, hope it helps you out.

[Guest IguanaKing]

zenTera, its been a while since I have done any research on this subject, but I highly recommend doing a google search for reviews of various processors and how they stack up against the competition overall. Tomshardware.com is a good place to look. I was lucky enough to buy the P4 3.4 right when it was released, so I got mine with the Northwood core. The new Prescott core in that speed was actually slower at almost everything. I'm an Intel man, so I hate to admit this...but, right now, AMD is kicking Intel's butt in performance. I STILL don't like AMDs though, because they're not nearly as tolerant of installation mistakes...it tends to be a lot easier to inadvertently let the smoke out of them. Stay away from Pentium Ds at the moment though, they're power hogs and fall well behind almost every other contemporary in terms of overall performance.

[MonnieRock]

For Lockon it is all about the cpu. The FX-57 is not enough for the sim.

[TucksonSonny]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of building a new rig, but I'm not sure, if it will really make sense or if I should just upgrade my system (if that is possible at all).

By now I have a stock discounter PC from "Aldi", Intel Pentium 4 3.4 HT, 1 Gig of Infineon RAM (not sure, I think it's CLK 2.5), don't know the manufacturer of the motherboard (Aldi/Medion seems to build their own boards), and the grafics card is a nVidea 6610 XL (seems to be a litttle bit better than the simplest 6600, not GT or something like that).

So, I definitely want to get a new card, the 7800 GTX (maybe the 512). This would surely mean,that I would have to get a new power supply, too (Enermax or the like). What do you think: Would it make sense to go from the Intel to an AMD 4000+? Would the AMD bring more performance than the Intel 3.4? If so, would the FX-55 be worth the 450,00 EUR it costs over the 4000+ or should I stay with the 4000+? If I would change to AMD I would like to get an ASUS A8N SLI board. What do you think of it? Can anyone tell me the difference between the standard, deluxe and premium version? And finally, is some special RAM from Corsair, Kingston etc. really better and worth the bucks than some Infineon or the like? If so, any recommendations which one to take with the AMD and the ASUS board?

I know that there are some people here that really seem to have great knowledge about computer hardware - hope you can share it with me and give some help.

Thanks in advance

Tom

 

 

FX-55 @ 2.6 GHz is unlocked; the AMD4000 @ 2.4GHz is not (means you can’t change the multiplier)!

Your default multiplier for FX-55 is set on (AUTO) (x13) -> 2.6Ghz

Just go in your bios setup and change the multiplier on x14 and you got 2.8Ghz.

(This is so easy, even me can do it!)

 

 

Almost the same goes for the FX-57 go from stock 2.8Ghz to 3.0Ghz!

(Athlon 64 FX-57 at 3.0GHz by simply setting the multiplier to 15x and juicing the voltage up 0.1v (from 1.4v to 1.5v).

 

 

You can do this safely with stock cooling. If you don’t thrust it put the safety alarm on 60°C and you can’t break stuff.

 

The FX-57 is not enough for the sim but until there is no game/sim done for dual core it is the fastest solution available.

In single core even the FX-55 is faster than X2 4800+

[zenTera]

Thanks for your replies up to now!

 

For some things I've decided, but for other things I'm still totally confused and need some more help.

 

What's (nearly) decided is: ASUS A8N SLI Premium, 2x1 GB OCZ Platinum 3200/400 2-2-2-5, 500-600 W PSU from BeQuiet or Enermax, Creative X-Fi Platinum.

 

What I'm still not sure about: GPU will most likely be the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 (hope it will be available soon, I can't find a shop in Germany in the moment who has one in stock). But which one? I nearly decided to get the XFX card, which is slightly overclocked, when I read in another forum about BFG-cards, which are even more overclocked. Anybody got an idea how these two brands are? Should I prefer one of them? And by any purpose maybe a hint where to get the BFG's in Germany? My dealers around sell only the XFX or Point Of View (the latter at standard clocks)?

 

And still total confusion about the CPU!

My dealer told me the FX-55 wasn't worth the money over the 4000+, I should better invest in good RAM (which I plan anyway) to see an increase in power!?

 

@TucksonSonny: If I understand you right there is no overclocking possibility with the 4000+, but with a simple change in BIOS I could run the FX-55 with the power of a stock FX-57?

 

@All: Any experiences with the X2 4800? It's got the same price as the FX-55. Is it really true, that todays applications run slower with the DualCore than with SingleCore? Especially: would LockOn be slower with the X2 4800 than with the 4000+ or the FX-55?

 

Hope you can give me some more answers. I'm afraid this rig will be my last one for the next few years (becoming daddy next year), so it should be a fine one, especially for LockOn and Pacific Fighters.

Thanks

Tom

[TucksonSonny]

Thanks for your replies up to now!

 

For some things I've decided, but for other things I'm still totally confused and need some more help.

 

What's (nearly) decided is: ASUS A8N SLI Premium, 2x1 GB OCZ Platinum 3200/400 2-2-2-5, 500-600 W PSU from BeQuiet or Enermax, Creative X-Fi Platinum.

 

What I'm still not sure about: GPU will most likely be the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 (hope it will be available soon, I can't find a shop in Germany in the moment who has one in stock). But which one? I nearly decided to get the XFX card, which is slightly overclocked, when I read in another forum about BFG-cards, which are even more overclocked. Anybody got an idea how these two brands are? Should I prefer one of them? And by any purpose maybe a hint where to get the BFG's in Germany? My dealers around sell only the XFX or Point Of View (the latter at standard clocks)?

 

And still total confusion about the CPU!

My dealer told me the FX-55 wasn't worth the money over the 4000+, I should better invest in good RAM (which I plan anyway) to see an increase in power!?

 

@TucksonSonny: If I understand you right there is no overclocking possibility with the 4000+, but with a simple change in BIOS I could run the FX-55 with the power of a stock FX-57?

 

@All: Any experiences with the X2 4800? It's got the same price as the FX-55. Is it really true, that todays applications run slower with the DualCore than with SingleCore? Especially: would LockOn be slower with the X2 4800 than with the 4000+ or the FX-55?

 

Hope you can give me some more answers. I'm afraid this rig will be my last one for the next few years (becoming daddy next year), so it should be a fine one, especially for LockOn and Pacific Fighters.

Thanks

Tom

 

You have that right: In my case I have to unlock the advance tweaking settings in bios with ctrl+F1 and change the multiplier from AUTO (X13) to X14 (1 click).

What a coincident. Last year my dealer told me too that the FX-55 was not worth the money. He tried to sell me the 4000+ too. And I told him: ”Are you kidding me, I want my FX or I get it elsewhere!” ”Of course, I told him that I was into flight Sims!”

Anyway with stock cooling you need a little luck on CPU and motherboard. I read from other people on forums that they don’t get it stable over 2.75Ghz with stock cooling. Otherwise you can of course install some cooling or consider water-cooling.

 

I would go for the FX-57 (OC @ 3.0Ghz, SSE3 instructions and 90µ technology) together with dual GeForce 7800 GTX 512 SLI and 2x1GByte (t1 setting in bios) of good quality ram (Of course it is your money).

 

I have no experience with the X2 but apparently it performs also very well in single core and maybe dual core is a good choice for the future.

 

PS. Next year I am going to build a house and as a result I am also stuck for a while with my rig.

:beer:

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

If you can get an old fx53, which is the same as the new amd 4000's but the fx53 is unlocked and can be overclocked via the multiplyer instead of fsb.

 

If you dont want to buy the 4000 or fx55, see if you can get the old type fx53. it will oc easily to fx55 and beyond speeds.

[ViperVJG73]

If you can get an old fx53, which is the same as the new amd 4000's but the fx53 is unlocked and can be overclocked via the multiplyer instead of fsb.

 

If you dont want to buy the 4000 or fx55, see if you can get the old type fx53. it will oc easily to fx55 and beyond speeds.

 

 

I purchased the AMD 64 Athlon 4000.single core (for 346,-€ = 407-USD)

His core clock is 2400MHz and runs with me stable on 2800MHz. This is faster and costs less as a FX57. ;)

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

I purchased the AMD 64 Athlon 4000.single core (for 346,-€ = 407-USD)

His core clock is 2400MHz and runs with me stable on 2800MHz. This is faster and costs less as a FX57. ;)

 

what you mean faster ?, 2.8 is same clock as fx57 I do agree that at a stable 2.8 you got a really decent OC and basically a fx57 in your machine. Also its a lot lot cheaper than the fx57. same clock and speed for less than half the price :D

 

basically the fx53 and amd 4000 chips, although they are the same albeit one has a locked multiplyer, they are still really nice chips and still give any fx55/57 a run for there money as proved by your real nice OC :D

 

On the whole, you have a very nice OC ;)

[TucksonSonny]

I purchased the AMD 64 Athlon 4000.single core (for 346,-€ = 407-USD)

His core clock is 2400MHz and runs with me stable on 2800MHz. This is faster and costs less as a FX57. ;)

 

 

Very nice OC.

But how can 2800 MHz be faster than 2.8 GHz?

A few people on the forum here have a stable FX-57 with OC 3.5 GHz!

 

Note that there is another little detail: 4000+ has only 512kb cache.

FX-55/57 has 1024kb Level 2 Cash and X2 has 2x512kb L2 cache or 512kb L2 cache in single core.

 

Note also that the multiplier on FX goes from x1 to x25 :icon_weed (with x13 as default).

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

x2 has 512kb for 3800/4200/4600, the 4400 and 4800 have 1mb for each core, total 2mb for 44 and 4800 cpus.

 

basically the 3800/4200/4600 are manufacturing defects where somewhere along the line something messed up resulting in a lower yield in 1mb per core lvl2 cache, thus the 4200 and 4600 were made with lower lvl2 cache's.

 

thats why it is hard to find 4400's and 4800s in any great numbers, as they are known to be the 2 type of dualcore chips to get and the lower yields make them harder to find compared to the 38/42/46. basically the 38/42/46 have 512 x2 =1mb total and the 44/48 have 2x1mb = 2mb total

[muamshai]

If you're a gamer, don't multitask often, and want the best performance possible, the FX-xx is an excellent option if you've got the coin to burn. But if you're the type of user who is constantly running multiple applications, you may be better served by a dual-core Athlon 64 X2 CPU. Plus, as time goes by, and more multi-threaded applications are released, dual-core processors will begin to outperform single-core processors in many more situations.

 

Bought Athlon 64 X2 4200+ for 420€.