saskcan Posted December 15, 2012 Author Posted December 15, 2012 engraving material I dont know what material you are engraving with. If it is a material specifically for rotary engraving then it will tell you how deep the top layer is. You dont have to go much farther than that, depending on oh flat the table is on your CNC is to get even coverage. I am quite a ways away from building yet but have seen some good examples achieved with a white or clear acrylic. I am thinking I will use a 1/16" piece of white acrylic spray painted with mat black and engraved through the paint. This will sit on top of a 3/16" clear or frosted layer which will hold and diffuse light from green LEDs. Then the panel would be mounted in a 1/16" aluminum backplate to hold the switches and knobs. This would create a panel 1/4" thick as per MS but I know the LEDs will be a tight fit and still need to figure out the details. Anyway unless I am told otherwise, will probably be engraving through paint onto acrylic. As for router vs laser still not sure... if I end up buying my own hobby machine will probably be cnc router because I think it is more versatile. On the theme of engravable acrylics, I found a product line called ultra-grave that has a mat black/white acrylic. Is this the type of product you are referring to? The 1/16" product cites 0.003-0.005" (.08-.1mm)
saskcan Posted December 15, 2012 Author Posted December 15, 2012 NKK have got lots of switches what you search. One example: http://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/S21AL-RO/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugka3xbYJsNPr4uJ%2fWOxdIxNxX38CJo7ElJdl%252bAg9Dewg%3d%3d That is one I use in my boxpanel and is very good! Look at that website you can find loads more of NKK switches (locking and non-locking) That is the best example I have seen yet but I am looking for switches in that price range with different styles of locking bar. For example on the SAS panel, the monitor test switch is locked in center but you can return to center from either other position without pulling the toggle. If I understand correctly, NKK switches with locking bar are locked on every position. For example S3AL is locked in all positions. I have found a catalog for C&K which shows different locking styles but I don't understand how to specify the styles in the part number which makes it hard to google search:( I can only seem to find the default style.
Gadroc Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 I am quite a ways away from building yet but have seen some good examples achieved with a white or clear acrylic. I am thinking I will use a 1/16" piece of white acrylic spray painted with mat black and engraved through the paint. This will sit on top of a 3/16" clear or frosted layer which will hold and diffuse light from green LEDs. Then the panel would be mounted in a 1/16" aluminum backplate to hold the switches and knobs. This would create a panel 1/4" thick as per MS but I know the LEDs will be a tight fit and still need to figure out the details. Anyway unless I am told otherwise, will probably be engraving through paint onto acrylic. As for router vs laser still not sure... if I end up buying my own hobby machine will probably be cnc router because I think it is more versatile. On the theme of engravable acrylics, I found a product line called ultra-grave that has a mat black/white acrylic. Is this the type of product you are referring to? The 1/16" product cites 0.003-0.005" (.08-.1mm) The white acrylic spray painting black can potentially be very scratch prone. Do a test run before you commit. Second I would mount my leds in the backplate. This gives them a little more distance for dispersion and you can change them with out disassembling the entire panel. Unless you are embedding wiring and SMD leds in the light plate you will need holes in the backplate for the led leads / wires to go through anyways. That is the best example I have seen yet but I am looking for switches in that price range with different styles of locking bar. For example on the SAS panel, the monitor test switch is locked in center but you can return to center from either other position without pulling the toggle. If I understand correctly, NKK switches with locking bar are locked on every position. For example S3AL is locked in all positions. I have found a catalog for C&K which shows different locking styles but I don't understand how to specify the styles in the part number which makes it hard to google search:( I can only seem to find the default style. A couple things to keep in mind. The real panel and most of the layouts you see here are all for 15/32" bushing switches. The C&K 7000 series while cheaper are all 1/4" bushings and much smaller switches. The locking lever on the 7000 series are about a half inch (or more) shorter than the real mil-spec switches and about half as wide around as the real thing. You may want to get a couple to try out before committing. You may need to tweak layout and mounting strategy if you are trying to use 1/4" switches with real dimensioned light plates. They may not stick out far enough from the light plate. For reference I have attached a picture of a couple real switches including a 1/4" bushing switch on the right. Note how dramatic the size difference is. The 7000 locking lever switch bat is about 1/4" taller than the small switch I've shown and about double the size around.
Deadman Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) all of the switch parts numbers are listed in my build thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1558830&postcount=390 Using MS 27720-27-1E as a cross refrence i did not find any thing as a match. This being a flat top (on)-off-(on) E type lever lock. surpluss stock is in short supply do to the F-16 pit building community, as far as I know, no company is making any thing close. You may find information on a substitute on viperpits Edited December 15, 2012 by Deadman https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Gadroc Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 all of the switch parts numbers are listed in my build thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1558830&postcount=390 Using MS 27720-27-1E as a cross refrence i did not find any thing as a match. This being a flat top (on)-off-(on) E type lever lock. surpluss stock is in short supply do to the F-16 pit building community, as far as I know, no company is making any thing close. You may find information on a substitute on viperpits Yea. The flat top levers (Honeywell 11TW* or 12TW* series) are hard to find. I have yet to find one at less than MSRP for the locking lever versions. I have not found another manufacturer of those particular switches either.
Hansolo Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Saskcan, The UltraGrave you found looks very nice, especially the black/clear type. That should be able to become backlit. Have you found a European supplier for this? Cheers Hans 132nd Virtual Wing homepage & 132nd Virtual Wing YouTube channel My DCS-BIOS sketches & Cockpit Album
saskcan Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Not yet... I am going to be traveling tomorrow through the new year so might not have a lot of time to look.
saskcan Posted January 8, 2013 Author Posted January 8, 2013 Not really an update... just got back from holidays. Got a copy of Far Cry 3 for Christmas. Also maybe more interesting to those reading the forum is I also got a 3dConnexion Navigator 3D mouse. Anyone use one of these? I think it will be able to save quite a bit of time both in 3D models as well as anything like a Corel Draw document. Will hopefully be back with some sort of update on the parts sourcing or the design process soon! Happy 2013
saskcan Posted January 27, 2013 Author Posted January 27, 2013 Hi, Just finally now having time to get back into my pit design after the Christmas break. I was reading about fabricating PCBs at home using UV masking and etching. I downloaded a program for PCB design called DesignSpark PCB. I know ExpressPCB is also popular and I have actually used it briefly at work. I am sure the features within either are more than enough to do some simple circuits (for example for LED backlighting). Also, stumbled across MIL-C-81774A which has some dimensions regarding panel markings. I am not sure if it specifically applies to the A10-C but at least it is a good guideline. The specification can be found easily on everyspec.
saskcan Posted March 19, 2013 Author Posted March 19, 2013 Jameco Value Pro Prototyping Kit Here is a great looking starter kit for home circuit board etching. http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2113244_-1 Since I don't have space to start building a full pit yet, I want to try a few prototype panels this summer. I think it would be really cool to etch my own boards for the light panels. This way they should be clean and thin. I hope to integrate the LEDS into the panel and mount it on a backplate just like the real panels. This will be a challenge because I will probably be using cheapie switches with shorter bushings. Anyway it will be an interesting project to start with and hopefully educational/informative. I will keep you guys posted. Here is an LED I found which might work: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/OVSA1GBC2R8/365-1556-1-ND/2203775
agrasyuk Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) I don't get the point of this kit, and why it is priced as such. Etching liquid is IIRC 10$ for a bottle, blanks are plentiful n ebay, laser printer and an iron to transfer toner you probably already have . 0.5$ a led +SnH ? Why? They are 8$ for 200pc. shipped from glorious republic of China Edited March 19, 2013 by agrasyuk Anton. My pit build thread . Simple and cheap UFC project
saskcan Posted March 19, 2013 Author Posted March 19, 2013 Hey, I am new to the etching club so I don't know if it is a good deal or not. Here are the prices from the same supplier for the items in the pack: 3"x4" pcb $5.49 (2 in kit) 4oz. developer $17.95 32oz. etcher $24.95 I thought it would be a convenient way to get started but I will compare prices and if I can save 50% will absolutely look around. As for the LEDs, there are many cheaper options. I have no idea where to start in terms of light output. These are high output and I was hoping to be able to use them to test a few concepts and maybe pick the proper output level for some future designs. If you have a datasheet handy on some leds which you successfully used, information on light output would be highly appreciated. Thanks
agrasyuk Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Google "toner transfer PCB" for several how-to articles. IMHO the best way to start. No UV nor anything to expencive involved. Etchant solution is indeed gone up in price , now 11.5$ for 16oz flask :) . Etchant will last for years if you maintain it properly and does not need to be replaced (copper that over time will impregnate the solution can be leached ;) ) developer... Well, if you insist that things absolutely need to be developed :) other wise it is not needed for toner transfer. LEDs I use are the cheapest ordinary 3mm ones in square "wide" flavor. Light output is plenty sufficient , I probably will be dimming them actually. Of course feel free to experiment with any thing you like. BTW, don't forget high-speed PCB drill bits! Good luck! Edited March 19, 2013 by agrasyuk Anton. My pit build thread . Simple and cheap UFC project
cichlidfan Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) BTW, don't forget high-speed PCB drill bits! Good luck! Lots of them, you will break them. It has been a very long time but I still remember the smell of warm etching solution. :) I have, in a pinch, used a carefully straightened paperclip as a drill bit. Just cut the end off when it gets dull. :D Edited March 19, 2013 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
saskcan Posted March 19, 2013 Author Posted March 19, 2013 Lots of them, you will break them. It has been a very long time but I still remember the smell of warm etching solution. :) I have, in a pinch, used a carefully straightened paperclip as a drill bit. Just cut the end off when it gets dull. :D I once drilled through a quarter using scissors for a string to trick a washing machine at a laundromat.
saskcan Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 Project Updates - AHCP After being away from the forums for a while, I'm back with some updates on my project. I have been casually designing and building for the last several months and finally have something to show for it. Here are a few photos of my AHCP. Electronics are in the works and a few design elements didn't turn out as expected; the connector '+' has to be enlarged and the 3-pos toggle I selected did not fit for the laser switch so it's a 2-pos for now. Otherwise I'm very happy with the progress even though the panel will not be backlit. The lettering came out better than expected and the overall feel is more than acceptable. As you can see, the panel is just test-fit (no screws) onto the backplate.
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