R-77s and AIM-120s

[Guest ruggbutt]

I dont think there are stars, because of exposure time?

Bingo!

[Yellonet]

You can have two of faster, cheaper, better quality, but not all three.

Yes you can, as the developers are different. Who's to say that American developers are the most efficient in the world?

 

Back in the day, russian rocket scientists used less advanced research and development methods than their american counterparts, but still they managed to come up with rocket engines that were far more efficient and powerful than anything the americans produced.

[Pilotasso]

Su-35 is also on the corner as mentioned on the Pravda even saying that it will be similar to the Rafale concerning the MFD with tactile glove and some other advance stuff.

 

oh my... Since your a bit dillusional, let me just pick this one^^^^^^ to say something:

Youll find out with time that those MFD's are more like the ones in rafale than you think... ;)

 

 

Ah...and another thing...could you shrink your Sig a bit...its so huge, it alone makes this thread very long.

[Yellonet]

I dont think there are stars, because of exposure time?

You can see some small dots in the last image.

[k4rlos]

Тhат forum is about what? Photography? Space Flights? Or maybe smth else?

You guys mentioned about research costs in former soviet union. You were right - they are significatly less. Many times less. Novadays young engineer ( just from university) is payed for his work at about 200$!!! On a military reserach of couse.

 

PS We were the first in space btw. But US have the first man on Moon. So, what to argue?

[Force_Feedback]

Also, soviet electronics are considered to be less suseptible to malfunctions, and ECM, and have a graeter combat reliability because of solid state electronics, as opposed to the software based electronics the US started to use in the eighties.

And about russian tech lagging behind 20 years, well, it depends on how you see that, if you consider having MFDs a big advantage, then yes. If you look at radars however (made by phazatron, vympel, agat) they were on par, and in the late eighties even more advanced than their US counterparts.

The question remains what is more effective, to use screens to display weapon, flight and tactical into or to have everything on the HUD, I think its a combination of both, but the Soviet doctorine dictated that the HUD was the primary source of information.

 

The electronics in the MFD equipped Russian jets are not always French/Israeli, it is offered as an option, the Russian AF planes have all Russian made electronics and MFDs, no French or Israeli tech. It's just like with cars, you can have either a car radio from Renault, when buying a new car, or one from Blaupunkt, depending on what you like and what works best for you. ;)

[GGTharos]

Yes you can, as the developers are different. Who's to say that American developers are the most efficient in the world?

 

Back in the day, russian rocket scientists used less advanced research and development methods than their american counterparts, but still they managed to come up with rocket engines that were far more efficient and powerful than anything the americans produced.

 

And now we find out that they blew up HOW many rockets trying to get there?

 

Out the door goes 'cheaper'.

[Yellonet]

And now we find out that they blew up HOW many rockets trying to get there?

 

Out the door goes 'cheaper'.

With people in them? I guess the russians are just more practical with testing.

[Yellonet]

Also, soviet electronics are considered to be less suseptible to malfunctions, and ECM, and have a graeter combat reliability because of solid state electronics, as opposed to the software based electronics the US started to use in the eighties.

And about russian tech lagging behind 20 years, well, it depends on how you see that, if you consider having MFDs a big advantage, then yes. If you look at radars however (made by phazatron, vympel, agat) they were on par, and in the late eighties even more advanced than their US counterparts.

The question remains what is more effective, to use screens to display weapon, flight and tactical into or to have everything on the HUD, I think its a combination of both, but the Soviet doctorine dictated that the HUD was the primary source of information.

 

The electronics in the MFD equipped Russian jets are not always French/Israeli, it is offered as an option, the Russian AF planes have all Russian made electronics and MFDs, no French or Israeli tech. It's just like with cars, you can have either a car radio from Renault, when buying a new car, or one from Blaupunkt, depending on what you like and what works best for you. ;)

Yep, judging from LockOn the russian birds are much more pilot friendly when it comes to de-cluttering the working environment. They're just much easier to understand, as istrumentation and hud symbology are way better than their american counterparts.

And yes, I expect to be flamed for saying this, even though it is my personal opinion.

[Krendel]

And now we find out that they blew up HOW many rockets trying to get there?

 

Out the door goes 'cheaper'.

In fact it was Americans who blew up too many rockets(many of them piloted).Just recall all the incidends with shuttle.Russian rocketas are very reliable...At least their final versions

P.S. And about electronics - AFAIK mig-31 was the first serial fighter with phased array antenna.What american fighter has such a thing?(except F-22)

[GGTharos]

In fact it was Americans who blew up too many rockets(many of them piloted).Just recall all the incidends with shuttle.Russian rocketas are very reliable...At least their final versions

P.S. And about electronics - AFAIK mig-31 was the first serial fighter with phased array antenna.What american fighter has such a thing?

 

F-15 AESA, F-18 AESA

 

And actually, Americans had a fast-paced Space programs which the Russians did not.

 

Not being able to keep up doesn't really count as cheaper. ;)

[GGTharos]

Yep, judging from LockOn the russian birds are much more pilot friendly when it comes to de-cluttering the working environment. They're just much easier to understand, as istrumentation and hud symbology are way better than their american counterparts.

And yes, I expect to be flamed for saying this, even though it is my personal opinion.

 

Too bad lock on doesn't reflect reality then - according to REAL mig pilots, it's not anywhere near as pilot-friendly as the western aircraft.

[Krendel]

Too bad lock on doesn't reflect reality then - according to REAL mig pilots, it's not anywhere near as pilot-friendly as the western aircraft.

REAL mig pilots in russian part of forum think different

[Yellonet]

Too bad lock on doesn't reflect reality then - according to REAL mig pilots, it's not anywhere near as pilot-friendly as the western aircraft.

That depends on what you mean with pilot-friendly, I was more thinking how information is presented to you. In this I think that russian aircraft are better. But american aircraft are probably better in that you don't have to make in flight adjustments and so on very often.

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

I sincerly hope that someone will not say that "Earth still revolves around the sun".

 

Millions of merrikans do believe it.

 

EDIT: oops, my bad. What I meant is this:

 

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/append/c7/at07-10.pdf

 

1 in 4 Americans (25%) don't know that the Earth revolves around the sun.

[Yellonet]

Millions of merrikans do believe it.

Well, it does in fact :icon_roll

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

What case? That you can't spell "pity"?

 

Boohoo.

 

Everyone speaking portuguese or jap from now on, shall we?

[D-Scythe]

Boohoo.

 

Everyone speaking portuguese or jap from now on, shall we?

 

How about Chinese? ;)

 

Millions of merrikans do believe it.

 

You're telling me the Earth does not orbit the sun?

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

Well, it does in fact :icon_roll

 

Edited

[Guest DeathAngelBR]

You're telling me the Earth does not orbit the sun?

 

Fixed it, in case you didn't see it :rolleyes:

[Cobra360]

Too bad lock on doesn't reflect reality then - according to REAL mig pilots, it's not anywhere near as pilot-friendly as the western aircraft.

 

Very true. IRl the procedure for a MiG/Su pilot to lock on to and fire an R-27/77 is a lot more complicated than for even an F-15A pilot to launch an AIM-7. Apperantly Russian pilots have to press a lot more buttons and switches.

 

And western HUDs provide a lot more flight information than Russian ones. I'm not to sure how close they are modeled IRL but in Lockon I can fly the A-10 and F-15 without having to look down into the cockpit as much as I need to when flying the MiG or Flanker.

[GGTharos]

Millions of merrikans do believe it.

 

EDIT: oops, my bad. What I meant is this:

 

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/append/c7/at07-10.pdf

 

1 in 4 Americans (25%) don't know that the Earth revolves around the sun.

Now try to do the same study for the population of the globe :D

 

You've already shown your ignorance and lack of knowledge, so your only resort now is the perpetration of fallacies.

[Force_Feedback]

Very true. IRl the procedure for a MiG/Su pilot to lock on to and fire an R-27/77 is a lot more complicated than for even an F-15A pilot to launch an AIM-7. Apperantly Russian pilots have to press a lot more buttons and switches.

 

And western HUDs provide a lot more flight information than Russian ones. I'm not to sure how close they are modeled IRL but in Lockon I can fly the A-10 and F-15 without having to look down into the cockpit as much as I need to when flying the MiG or Flanker.

 

Well, then please don't judge bu the way everything is modddled in lomac, the mig-29 has a different symbology and a lot more radar, radio and ECM modes, and its hud+"mfd" look a bit differnt too, so basically the Mig got flanker's hud symbology (and the su-27 has many of these modes as well).

 

I don't think all the radar modes are moddled for the f-15 as well, but the su-27/mig-29 have lots of modes. For the mig/su the basis is that the pilot knows what he's doing and can make the right decisions by himself (or with help of the GCI to guide him to the target, which isn't moddled at all in lomac), by chosing the right engagement mode for BVR and WVR combat (based on target flight profile, which is given by the GCI and displayed on the "mfd-lite").

 

I'll look up the procedures to fire the r-27r in the flight manual.

[GGTharos]

Not even 1/10th of the F-15's radar modes and submodes are modelled. There are a number of modes which we don't even know the names of (surmised from real pilots asking 'how many radar modes do you know about?' and pretty much implying that there are more)

[Cobra360]

Well, then please don't judge bu the way everything is modddled in lomac, the mig-29 has a different symbology and a lot more radar, radio and ECM modes, and its hud+"mfd" look a bit differnt too, so basically the Mig got flanker's hud symbology (and the su-27 has many of these modes as well).

 

I don't think all the radar modes are moddled for the f-15 as well, but the su-27/mig-29 have lots of modes. For the mig/su the basis is that the pilot knows what he's doing and can make the right decisions by himself (or with help of the GCI to guide him to the target, which isn't moddled at all in lomac), by chosing the right engagement mode for BVR and WVR combat (based on target flight profile, which is given by the GCI and displayed on the "mfd-lite").

 

I'll look up the procedures to fire the r-27r in the flight manual.

 

 

What I mean is, that for just flying them alone with no combat involved, I find the A-10 and F-15 easier as I don't have to check the dials at all but with a MiG/Su, I have to because the Russian HUDs display less flight information.

 

But for combat, in Lockon I think they are about the same and I don't mind that at all. If it were possible for ED to model the true firing sequence button by button, then bring it on. I'm just stating that IRL western fighters from the same era as Russian ones have a lower pilot work load.