DCS scenery?

[Exorcet]

Guess I should have said there are no flyable bombers. I already knew there were AI ones.

Anyone who has been around here longer than a month would know that you knew.

 

I was pointing out that the map size affects the AI as well. Right now, you basically have bombers and AWACS taking off from the front lines, which doesn't make much sense. The current map is big enough so that this isn't game breaking, but it would be nice if you could leave these important assets in far off bases where they belong.

[BHawthorne]

Haha imagine DCS NGX...

 

"I'M LANDING AND...MY APPROACH IS ABOVE 25FPS? EVERYTHING IS TOO FLUID, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING, I NEED THE MANUAL!!!":D

 

Ok, now that is funny. It also best describes FSX in a concise manner. FPS? What is that at ground level and FSX? :megalol:

 

Heck PMDG could make a KC-135, C-130 and KC-10 that is functional. Some of the big birds. If PMDG is at the AVSIM convention at the Kansas Aviation Museum in May Justin and I can give them full access to the museum KC-135 for reference. It was gifted from the state of Kansas to the museum, so it's not under the same restrictions the USAF lend aircraft are.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BHawthorne

[BHawthorne]

Slightly different topic than my last post...

 

What is really holding anyone up from making a continental US, or European map in the old engine? THere was mention that the tools exist already. Even if it's not edge format, do you think people wouldn't use or buy it?

 

Looking from a different angle. My assumption with edge is that the engine is the hold up, not the map SDK. Is there anything preventing people from asking Wags about edge map SDK tools even though the engine isn't ready, or are the tools still in flux because the engine is?

 

If edge has no solid release date, I'm almost of the mindset just to get 5-6 of us DCS users together and use USGS national map data orthoimagery and elevation geoTIFFs to make a few theaters (that aren't Nevada) using the old format.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BHawthorne

[sobek]

What is really holding anyone up from making a continental US, or European sized map in the old engine?

 

It's a lot of work just to produce something that will possibly become obsolete or incompatible with the introduction of the new engine.

[BHawthorne]

It's a lot of work just to produce something that will possibly become obsolete or incompatible with the introduction of the new engine.

 

It's a simple question to ask. Will the old format still be backwards compatible on edge? Simple question. Ask the question, get the answer then proceed on with something new. Heck, I'm willing to do an example map project if the tools are there. :smilewink:

[metalnwood]

As is done in other sims we need some smart person to make a program that will convert scenery from other sims format, e.g. fsx to dcs.

 

So as to not have the copyright fight it doesnt even have to be commercial as there is a lot of freeware hi res mesh and texture around.

[BHawthorne]

As is done in other sims we need some smart person to make a program that will convert scenery from other sims format, e.g. fsx to dcs.

 

So as to not have the copyright fight it doesn't even have to be commercial as there is a lot of freeware hi res mesh and texture around.

 

No, you need public domain content such as USGS national map data. Don't mess with FSX scenery files. Well, you could do USGS geoTIFF -> FSX -> DCS World, but that seems convoluted to me, especially if the tool doesn't exist. I already know how to do USGS GeoTIFF -> FSX. USGS provides both elevation data and orthoimagery in the public domain. I thought people said tools exist for the old format? USGS has all the elevation and imagery we'd need to make the terrain minus buildings. THen the hard work would come with airport CAD and building placement. But if the tools exist, it's just time to burn.

 

It blows my mind that considering the amount of time put into the Nevada forum thread alone we could have a theater terrain data converted over to something useful in the old format and on the way to adding in the required airports and building and other necessary tie-ins. It's almost as though everyone wants someone else to do it for them instead of expending the time on it themselves.

 

SOmeone point me to the old tools and I'll see if I can get started on a theater I have in mind for Smoky Hill ANG Range.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BHawthorne

[sobek]

It's a simple question to ask.

 

It might be simple to ask, but not simple to anwer. ;)

[metalnwood]

I mention it because I know for xplane the tools already exist and people are converting things like aerosoft, orbx complete with buildings/textures in to xplane and the results are good.

[BHawthorne]

It might be simple to ask, but not simple to answer. ;)

 

Unless they're going to re-do the old map in edge, it'll have to be. I've heard rather emphatically that they're not going to re-do the old map. :)

 

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. If the old map tools are available, there is zero eta on edge, why not just make a new map using old tools when people will be flying the old map too anyways and are used to it's fidelity? If the tools are in fact available, I see no issue in a third party making something new in the old format?

Edited December 29, 2012 by BHawthorne

[Nate--IRL--]

IIRC the two will not be compatible and the Black will not be redone in EDGE. Not a definitive answer, just what I recall.

 

Nate

[BHawthorne]

IIRC the two will not be compatible and the Black will not be redone in EDGE. Not a definitive answer, just what I recall.

 

Nate

 

Does that mean the old map will no longer be able to be used or just that DCS World will have two different terrain engines built in? The question while tedious might mean once answered that some people might start making maps even if it is the old format.

[metalnwood]

IIRC the two will not be compatible and the Black will not be redone in EDGE. Not a definitive answer, just what I recall.

 

Nate

 

Thats kind of strange, I think. I couldnt see one map, Nevada, being a good replacement for all the stuff in the current map which puts a bit of a divide between the two.

 

I wonder what that could mean for new content being made, e.g. buildings, units etc. Would they require more work to run in the old engine and the new?

[Nate--IRL--]

Does that mean the old map will no longer be able to be used or just that DCS World will have two different terrain engines built in? The question while tedious might mean once answered that some people might start making maps even if it is the old format.

 

Thats kind of strange, I think. I couldnt see one map, Nevada, being a good replacement for all the stuff in the current map which puts a bit of a divide between the two.

 

I wonder what that could mean for new content being made, e.g. buildings, units etc. Would they require more work to run in the old engine and the new?

 

I never said the Black Sea would be removed. Just that it wouldn't be using EDGE. AGAIN this is not definitive just what I recall.

 

Nate

[metalnwood]

Yes, I didnt think you said it would be removed but as it has so much existing content/missions etc I imagine it will still be popular for a long time. That was making me think if any new content made for the edge engine would require work to also make it work in the old engine.

 

Just thinking out loud.

[BHawthorne]

I never said the Black Sea would be removed. Just that it wouldn't be using EDGE. AGAIN this is not definitive just what I recall.

 

Nate

 

Then there is no real impediment to doing old style maps other than people just want to use the latest tools and engine? IMHO, there is merit using the old theater format right now just to give diversity of options to people. The rules for the game changed significantly when ED opened to third party development. I see no real reason to mess with edge format when the old can work and it'll get more content out via third parties in the near term.

 

Third party devs waiting on edge to emerge is an impediment to the DCS engine right now. Since it is, I see no reason to wait on edge. Just make a theater in the old format as a proof of concept. I'm all for working on one myself if I can find the tools. To me, edge is some nebulous thing. I prefer to work in knowns and the old format is known and exists right now. I just don't understand why other people don't see it that way and are in limbo.

Edited December 30, 2012 by BHawthorne

[Nate--IRL--]

I believe it is because developing for the old engine is very difficult with the rather rudimentary tools available. Supposedly a proper SDK is being developed alongside EDGE, to vastly improve this situation.

 

Nate

[BHawthorne]

I believe it is because developing for the old engine is very difficult with the rather rudimentary tools available. Supposedly a proper SDK is being developed alongside EDGE, to vastly improve this situation.

 

Nate

 

Ah, knew there had to be some reasoning. I was working under the assumption that the old format had functional tools and didn't require tons of manual manipulation and guru level knowledge. Wishful thinking on my part. :)

 

I just hope edge will allow input of GeoTIFFs for elevation and orthoimagery for data entry. Seems common for GIS and a lot of public domain data is out there. From there we could use a pen tool and just draw in vector format things like airports and building placement and terrain types. I can wish I guess.

Edited December 30, 2012 by BHawthorne

[SilentEagle]

I believe it is because developing for the old engine is very difficult with the rather rudimentary tools available. Supposedly a proper SDK is being developed alongside EDGE, to vastly improve this situation.

 

Nate

 

^This. All it takes is a quick look through all the scenery tools help threads and you'll find person after person giving up after numerous issues with the tools either not loading or crashing or with the scenery that is exported not giving the expected results (I never did get airports to work). Also, the process was so tedious and the tools didn't provide any automation at all, so it was not worth the effort. When proper tools are released, i'm sure we'll see all kinds of scenery developers flocking to DCS. If ED can provide a basic framework spherical world with navigation infrastructure, every disheartened FSX user will be begging their favorite developers to provide high detailed scenery that plugs in to the environment. I'm really not sure how such a process would work or if it is even in the long term goal of ED.