Hellfire's for the A-10?

[Guest Jinker]

Hellfire's for the A-10 anytime soon? Mavericks are good missle's, but the hellfire's are a much better missle. When might we see a fire and forget missle. TV guided missles are very old techmology.

 

Since LOMAC FC (soon to be Black Shark) is supposed to be a realistic simulator, when are we gonna see weapons that are actually used in today's warfare?

 

We have those dang Mig29's flying around against 60's -1980's technology. Talk about unlevel playing field! The 29 wasn't even around when that old stuff was being used.

[GGTharos]

Hellfires aren't fire and forget and AFAIK are not operational on the A-10, either.

 

The maverick has been constantly updated, and is an excellent stand-off launch-and-leave weapon, with a very capable warhead against armor, and the newer versions have an even heavier warhead, useful for attacking small ships and buildings.

[Cobra360]

You will never see AGM-114Ls on the A-10. As the A-10 would need a MMV radar to use them and a AGM-65 is a better missile for fighters to use. The AGM-65 are updated with new seekers all the time. This 60s version is the AGM-65A which is not used any more.

 

The AGM-65 is fire and forget unless you happen to be using the AGM-65E laser Maverick. Everything in Lockon right now is used today and some thing that are not. The Su-34 being one of them.

 

You might actually want to try the game before talking about unlevel playing fields.

[Guest Jinker]

Aw, ok, I thought flying it for the last couple of months WAS trying it smartass.

[Guest Jinker]

BTW, how long have you been flying?!? I just got into combat flight sim's but I am not a FS beginner by no means. I've been flying LOMAC, Lock On FC, and have recently bought a full CH HOTAS setup and TIR 4 is on the way, so I think I've "tired it" pretty well. Along with about 15 other simulators.

[GGTharos]

Flying sims or real aircraft?

 

Sims, about seven years.

 

Did you want some questions answered or did you want to start an argument?

[Cobra360]

I've been flying sim since JF-15 came out. And no offence intended but from your post you looked like another one of those people who don't like sims and are only here slamming the game when they should be playing Ace Combat on the PS2.

 

I judged a book by the cover because of your post count. I apologise.

[Guest Jinker]

Does everyone at this sorum have an attitude? I asked one simple question, and we're batting 1000 for smartass answers. if that's the way this place is, I'll go elsewhere. I thought this was supposed to be a support forum run by the buisness.

 

...or is this just some kids forum where all the outcasts come?

 

ED, if you're in charge of this forum, you best take charge of it. You have some people here running a forum with your name on it, and your name is not looking real good.

[GGTharos]

Read your original post. It's not exactly the nicest tone, nor is your last one lacking in attitude either. Are you defensive because you were wrong, or what? ...

 

Do you jump on everyone that tries to answer your questions?

[britgliderpilot]

Does everyone at this sorum have an attitude? I asked one simple question, and we're batting 1000 for smartass answers. if that's the way this place is, I'll go elsewhere. I thought this was supposed to be a support forum run by the buisness.

 

...or is this just some kids forum where all the outcasts come?

 

ED, if you're in charge of this forum, you best take charge of it. You have some people here running a forum with your name on it, and your name is not looking real good.

 

Oooh, confrontational, fun fun fun.

 

 

It's not purely a support forum for the game, no. Neither is it a kids forum where all the outcasts come . . . . although I do understand Wolverine is sleeping on the sofa tonight, so "outcast" may perhaps still apply . . . . :p

 

 

People nominated by ED and respected by the general community actually moderate the forum - but mostly it's left to us to be polite to one another. If they have to keep coming in here and shutting topics down, then we're being bastards . . . . which doesn't do anyone any good. Mostly we try and avoid that.

 

 

Your original post appeared to be written in a know-it-all tone, while being factually incorrect. It's not a promising start ;)

You've had one apology for an attitude already, which considering only two other people had posted in the thread is pretty good going :p

 

Back to serious questions?

[504 Wolverine]

Oooh, confrontational, fun fun fun.

 

 

It's not purely a support forum for the game, no. Neither is it a kids forum where all the outcasts come . . . . although I do understand Wolverine is sleeping on the sofa tonight, so "outcast" may perhaps still apply . . . . :p

 

:icon_axe: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

 

Well thats what I get flying on a friday instead of "family time". She should know by now that lock-on comes first though a box of roses in the morning will sort that out. :icon_lol:

[Dice]

Hellfire's for the A-10 anytime soon? Mavericks are good missle's, but the hellfire's are a much better missle. When might we see a fire and forget missle. TV guided missles are very old techmology.

 

 

Yea and we need some of them phosphorus bombs like the US uses in iraq!

[D-Scythe]

Hellfires aren't fire and forget...

 

Yes, it is.

 

The maverick has been constantly updated, and is an excellent stand-off launch-and-leave weapon, with a very capable warhead against armor, and the newer versions have an even heavier warhead, useful for attacking small ships and buildings.

 

So is the Hellfire ;)

[britgliderpilot]

Yes, it is.

 

Hmmmn . . . . here it gets interesting.

 

Google (wonderful tool that it is) says only one Hellfire variant is NOT semi-active laser guided - that being the AGM-114L, which has a millimetre-wave radar instead of the SAL seeker.

 

Apparently it's in service with the Longbow Apache.

 

 

It's all rather a moot point - I'm pretty certain the A10 cannot carry any form of Hellfire ;)

 

 

Re warhead weight - the weight of a Hellfire is round about 100lb.

 

The smallest Maverick WARHEAD weighs more than the heaviest Hellfire missile.

 

 

Not denying that the Hellfire is a mighty and useful weapons system - but when talking about things you can deploy from a fixed-wing aircraft (much more a fixed-wing aircraft with no lasing capability or radar), then it just doesn't enter into the equation.

[Woodstock]

Hi Jinker!

Welcome to the wonderful world of military flightsimming communities. The tone is rougher here than in the beautiful and shiny, politically correct, Crew Ressource Management governed MSFS and VATSIM world.

People here are highly competitive in all aspects from knowledge to dogfight skills. Furthermore, they literally "kill" each other on a daily basis.

This somehow reflects in the behaviour of some people here who forget to "simulate" the ethos of flying-officers as well...

But since you on the other hand jumped right into the middle of the party with your pants down, things are even now I guess, with some apologies said and all.

Fact is, everyone here welcomes you to the community and everyone appreciates the committment you displayed by the money you already spent for appropriate hardware, which will further support the genre.

Some people simply adjusted to your way of saying "hi", though they should have known better and kept their cool when confronted with a new hotshot.

Now that everything is fine again, we can all concentrate on battling the reason for high emotions, frustration and outbreaks in this community:

-the lack of groundbreaking software supply in the genre...

[Woodstock]

Not denying that the Hellfire is a mighty and useful weapons system - but when talking about things you can deploy from a fixed-wing aircraft (much more a fixed-wing aircraft with no lasing capability or radar), then it just doesn't enter into the equation.

Is the Hog really non-lasing?

What exactly does the Pave Penny pod on the A-10 do? Which, by the way, isn´t simulated in LO either...;)

This isn´t a rhetorical question! I really don´t know what it does, thought it was a laser of some sort.

[504 Wolverine]

Is the Hog really non-lasing?

What exactly does the Pave Penny pod on the A-10 do? Which, by the way, isn´t simulated in LO either...;)

This isn´t a rhetorical question! I really don´t know what it does, thought it was a laser of some sort.

 

The pave penny pod can detect laser designators but cannot lase itself. It need targets lased by ground troops or buddy aircraft.

[britgliderpilot]

Is the Hog really non-lasing?

What exactly does the Pave Penny pod on the A-10 do? Which, by the way, isn´t simulated in LO either...;)

This isn´t a rhetorical question! I really don´t know what it does, thought it was a laser of some sort.

 

It's a laser receiver. Can detect laser spots, usually placed by ground troops, for ease of target ID.

 

There is a lasing pod for the A10 - but it's pretty recent, and is not definitely available on the version of the A10 we have in Lomac.

 

 

The Pave Penny is kind of modelled in Lomac . . . . wrongly, though ;)

 

The word is that if it were to be modelled correctly, it would look something similar to the diamonds over the targets marked in the Mission Editor.

 

Range for picking up a designated target is supposed to be in the tens of miles . . . . it's line of sight, there aren't gnomes with laser pointers in every bush in the Crimea, and those gnomes don't in reality talk to each other well enough to ensure instant ID of destroyed targets and switching of marking to another target.

 

It's not perfect ;)

[504 Wolverine]

Range for picking up a designated target is supposed to be in the tens of miles . . . . it's line of sight, there aren't gnomes with laser pointers in every bush in the Crimea, and those gnomes don't in reality talk to each other well enough to ensure instant ID of destroyed targets and switching of marking to another target.

 

It's not perfect ;)

 

http://www.freethegnomes.com/

 

There ya go mate. :p :icon_lol:

[Woodstock]

Ah, rgr, thanks!

So the A-10 can detect targets designated by Apaches, Kiowas, SpecOps and stuff and launch LGMs, LGBs, Laser-Mavs and stuff at them.

That would mean it also could employ laser-Hellfires. Theoretically - if it could carry them and if they were integrated in weapon avionics...

But that´s useless speculation since it doesn´t and since the -114 seems to be inferior to the -65.

 

@ Wolverine:

http://www.freethegnomes.com/

 

There ya go mate. :p :icon_lol:

Thanx m8, but wrong guy here for that page: I use them as cheap pins for IPSC gun training...;)

[britgliderpilot]

Ah, rgr, thanks!

So the A-10 can detect targets designated by Apaches, Kiowas, SpecOps and stuff and launch LGMs, LGBs, Laser-Mavs and stuff at them.

That would mean it also could employ laser-Hellfires. Theoretically - if it could carry them and if they were integrated in weapon avionics...

But that´s useless speculation since it doesn´t and since the -114 seems to be inferior to the -65.

 

. . . . Kind of a grey area, but yes.

 

IIRC, the laser-Mavs are only used by the Marines, who don't have A-10s.

LGB's have been used by A-10s, both with the self-lasing pod and other assets lasing.

 

One interesting point you run into is whether the laser dot is just a marker, or whether it's a true designator dot for an LGM.

Another is whether the Pave Penny is sufficiently integrated into the weapons system to provide a pre-launch cue to the weapon, or whether it's just to provide a visual cue for the pilot. I'd understood it to be the second . . . . we need Dice, this is starting to get a little complicated.

 

 

I wouldn't say the -114 is inferior to the -65, by any means - it fulfils a different role. The -65 is better suited to the A-10, and the -114 is better suited to choppers.

[Woodstock]

I wouldn't say the -114 is inferior to the -65, by any means - it fulfils a different role.

I concluded that from someone else stating a Mav warhead alone is heavier than a whole Hellfire missile.

I live by the rule "bigger gun, bigger boom, bigger hole".:D

New fashions like SDMs make me yawn...;)

...and now don´t anyone dare to go further OT by commenting on SDMs!:rolleyes:

I love this forum!:icon_jook

[Guest Jinker]

OK, maybe my post in this thread didn't come accross to well. it was not intended to start debate I assure you. It was merely an observation of mine, and the "feel" (and maybe I assumed too much) seems like it's around 70's -80's timeframe.

 

I also assumed (becasue I'm totally new to combat) that the hellfire would be used on a tank killer aircraft. I see that was wrong, but I still don't see how that was inflamatory. I figured that since the helfire had been used already on "Global Hawk" that surely an A-10 could carry it.

 

Maybe it is, and maybe we don't know about it. Of course if we don't know about it, we're not supposed to, and it would be hard to model something we have no info on.

 

Oh well, chalk this one up to a bad thread starter.

 

You guys might wana check out my first posting in the tech section. Maybe tha might get things off to a better start.

 

I think I'm gonna go get me a :icon_jook and forget about this whole fiasco. Sorry I bothered you guys with this.

[GGTharos]

The reason why it's used on the Global Hawk is that for every Maverick missile you could hang 4-6 hellfires on it...they're very light missiles, and very effective against small targets :) The Global Hawk itself is not a very powerful aircraft in terms of how much it can lift, compared to something like an A-10. On the other hand, the A-10 doesn't have any of the equipment required to use any hellfire version to date (Well, the A-10C might...that's a different story ;) )

 

And yes, I saw your post in the tech section. Nice tip - I've been having trouble

with my 6600 and I hope this resolves it :)

[Mobius1]

I think the Predator is the only UAV to use the Maverick as the Global Hawk is a much larger, faster (jet as opposed to prop), and flies higher than the Predator.;)

 

EDIT: I think it's also autonomous, but I'm too tired to look it up, so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure, whereas there is actually someone sitting in a trailer flying the predator. Still not to the point where completely autonomous aircraft are making kills on a battlefield.