MER and unbalanced load

[Manny]

I have a question. If I load four racks of MERs with the FAB-100, and select a salvo of 2, the Fire Control Computer punches off the starboard two rails and I am left with an unbalanced plane.

 

I chose the MER and KMGU release mode and would think the logic here is not correct. In the interest of preserving the balance, please eject em of opposite pairsof racks.

 

I can understand conserving load and distributing it evenly when selecting salvo mode of 1 but when selecting 2, is this the way the real 25T deploys weapons?

 

Otherwise, I find the Su-25T daunting to learn but loads of fun droppin submunition dispensers and cluster bombs, nicely modelled.

[Manny]

Also, can someone explain why salvo is not logical when deploying FAB-100s on MERS using the KMGU and MER release mode? Salvo 1 will let one rack fly. Salvo 2 lets 1 rack fly. Salvo 3 lets all fly and 4 lets all fly.

 

It is logical using the primary release mode and a salvo of 2 corresponds to two opposite racks at far end released. A salvo 3 corresponds to release of four to preserve balance although a salvo 1 looses one rack. But MER KMPU corresponds so differently.

[Manny]

Is it my ignorance or were MERS designed to eject a lotta metal in the air and never intended to simply drop a few here and there? In other words release all weapons on the MERs at once rather then selecting a few here and there?

[Guest ruggbutt]

Manny, can you post a screenshot of your weapons control panel settings when you're having this problem? I tried over and over with all settings and in my install the Su25T will not drop them from the same side. You can select to drop in the mode where one MER will drop after the first one is empty. You can stop that process by letting up on the fire button, but it starts with the rack on the other side if you hit your pickle button again.

[Manny]

Manny, can you post a screenshot of your weapons control panel settings when you're having this problem? I tried over and over with all settings and in my install the Su25T will not drop them from the same side. You can select to drop in the mode where one MER will drop after the first one is empty. You can stop that process by letting up on the fire button, but it starts with the rack on the other side if you hit your pickle button again.

 

Hey Rugg, thanks for responding. The settings I use on my WCP are as follows:

 

For non-MERs and KMGUs, I have no probs. Set the salvo to release per rack and done. If I want one off I get it with setting of 1 salvo. If I want a pair, 2.

 

For MERs and KMGUs the problem is predictability and ED has provided no documentation sufficient to describe all release modes and salvo options for all weapons. I am still finding out that it it impossible to release 4 rails of bombs but in CCRP with the optics and laser on... that makes no sense and I wish ED would be more clear since the 25T is more complex.

 

I will post pics but refer to the WCP in the 25T, only 2 knobs and right is salvo, left is gun mode and ripple or release mode. This is not making much sense so more experimentation.

[Guest ruggbutt]

The knob with the .1, .2, .3 etc. is the ripple timer. I'll try it with CCRP, Optics and Laser.

[Guest ruggbutt]

Ok, here's what I found. Only once could I drop with Laser, Shkval, Route Following and CCRP. And that was with one MER. I tried 2, 4 and all with differing ripple times. I went back to drop one MER again and couldn't. You hold the pickle button down, the arrow drops almost to the bottom of the scale, then climbs back up. I think there's a bug............;)

 

I tried it all the same settings except with KMGU's and I had no issues dropping them. Same thing with single ordnance on each pylon, no problems.

[Olgerd]

Guys. Please provide tracks, I will look where is the problem.

[Manny]

Guys. Please provide tracks, I will look where is the problem.

 

OK Olgerd, hey thanks for chiming in. I will first figure out how to record a track, hehe, then I will provide.

[Weta43]

One of the options from the drop downs at the top - the standard windows looking buttons to the left of "FLY" is to record a track, you'll start the mission, then at the end you get the option to save it as a track. It's right by the play track button

[Guest ruggbutt]

Ok, I think it's user error on my part. I made 4 tracks, 2 release and 2 don't. The difference was that I was not using Route Following Mode when the 2 didn't launch, I was in Transition Flight Level mode. What's happening is that if you're lasing and have the target locked, if your flight path doesn't directly intercept the target the laser will not release the weapons. In the no launch01 track, I had no idea why it wouldn't drop. In my HUD it looked like I was on target. So on no launch02 I specifically added a little rudder to get me a tiny bit off to one side. No release. The other two tracks I remembered to put Route Following Mode on and badda bing! Release. I dropped 2 racks in the first track and all of them in the second. Now I have dropped while in Flight Level Mode, but I was flying within parameters for launch.

 

I'm sorry to alarm you Olgerd. I thought I was pretty good w/the '25T. I've been humbled..................................

 

Release/No Release tracks

[504 Wolverine]

I use the Combat steering mode of the autopilot for the majority of dumb bomb releases (especially high level drops) and it works great. One thing you always have to ensure though is that you give the autopilot plenty of time to line you up properly with the target. The less work the autopilot has to do at critical points of the flight the better.

[Olgerd]

Ok, I think it's user error on my part. I made 4 tracks, 2 release and 2 don't. The difference was that I was not using Route Following Mode when the 2 didn't launch, I was in Transition Flight Level mode. What's happening is that if you're lasing and have the target locked, if your flight path doesn't directly intercept the target the laser will not release the weapons. In the no launch01 track, I had no idea why it wouldn't drop. In my HUD it looked like I was on target. So on no launch02 I specifically added a little rudder to get me a tiny bit off to one side. No release. The other two tracks I remembered to put Route Following Mode on and badda bing! Release. I dropped 2 racks in the first track and all of them in the second. Now I have dropped while in Flight Level Mode, but I was flying within parameters for launch.

 

I'm sorry to alarm you Olgerd. I thought I was pretty good w/the '25T. I've been humbled..................................

 

Release/No Release tracks

 

Ok. Both "no release" cases not connected directly to the release quantity/interval configuration. It seems that you just got too big lateral steering error. It is not clearly seen in the first track, but I think this is the reason.

[Yellonet]

Is there any way to avoid dropping a whole MER at a time?

[Guest Cali]

I'm sorry to alarm you Olgerd. I thought I was pretty good w/the '25T. I've been humbled..................................

 

It takes a big man to amitt that RuGG.....

[504 Wolverine]

Is there any way to avoid dropping a whole MER at a time?

 

No, Russian weapon systems drop all bombs on the MER when the pylon(s) is selected.

[Guest ruggbutt]

Thanks Olgerd, you're absolutely correct. When the lateral movement (yaw) is off the laser will not allow a drop. I'm glad we got this figured out!

[Ironhand]

Also, can someone explain why salvo is not logical when deploying FAB-100s on MERS using the KMGU and MER release mode? Salvo 1 will let one rack fly. Salvo 2 lets 1 rack fly. Salvo 3 lets all fly and 4 lets all fly.

 

It is logical using the primary release mode and a salvo of 2 corresponds to two opposite racks at far end released. A salvo 3 corresponds to release of four to preserve balance although a salvo 1 looses one rack. But MER KMPU corresponds so differently.

Hi Manny,

 

I imagine the problem is that you are not holding down the "release" key until the sequence is completed. The more MERs inolved, the longer the sequence takes to complete.

 

Umm... there is no Salvo 3. Only 1, 2, 4 and All. If you're referring to the 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 on the release mode switch, those are the selected interval between non-MER released munitions and have nothing to do with MERs.

 

FWIW, I haven't had any problems getting the desired number of weapons to drop. The only thing to keep in mind is that, where MERs are concerned, all bombs on a MER get dropped. Not just some. If a MER has 4 bombs and you select a salvo of 1, 4 bombs (1 MER's worth) get dropped.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rich

[Ironhand]

If I load four racks of MERs with the FAB-100, and select a salvo of 2, the Fire Control Computer punches off the starboard two rails and I am left with an unbalanced plane.

Hello again,

 

I just noticed this. Are you saying that, for example, the MERs on pylons 4 and 5 release their bombs when a salvo of 2 is selected? If so, I'd love to see a track of this. Can you reproduce and record it? The only way you should be able to create an unbalanced load is to select a salvo of 1. Since only 1 MER's bombs are released you get, by default, an unbalanced load remaining until you press the release key a 2nd time so that the munitions on the opposing wing's pylon are released.

 

Rich

[Guest ruggbutt]

I tried that for 2 hours last night Rich, no dice. Every combination of weapons and release modes imaginable. That's how I figured out my yaw/weapons release refusal problem.

[Manny]

I already submitted a track via this board to ED. There appears to be a problem with the WSCP and how it corresponds to the actual release programmed.

 

In my track, I already demonstrated that with "Zero" delay in ripple mode and salvo of "Release all of type", I can get all MER racks to discharge onto the target.

 

With Ripple in MER/KMGU and Salvo "Release all of type", Only one rack lets fly. This is clearly an error since the special release mode corresponds to the time delay appropriate for releasing all those eggs on a target in my opinion and holding the release pickle is for CCRP and not for CCIP.

 

With CCIP, you pickle off weapons immediately with launch authorization. The only way I have been able to release all weapons off the MERS is to bomb with CCRP. This has to be an error since that restriction completely avoids the easiest bombing mode, CCIP.

 

I think ED should have a look at this becuase although non-MER works properly, MER does not.

[Ironhand]

I already submitted a track via this board to ED. There appears to be a problem with the WSCP and how it corresponds to the actual release programmed.

 

In my track, I already demonstrated that with "Zero" delay in ripple mode and salvo of "Release all of type", I can get all MER racks to discharge onto the target.

 

With Ripple in MER/KMGU and Salvo "Release all of type", Only one rack lets fly. This is clearly an error since the special release mode corresponds to the time delay appropriate for releasing all those eggs on a target in my opinion and holding the release pickle is for CCRP and not for CCIP.

 

With CCIP, you pickle off weapons immediately with launch authorization. The only way I have been able to release all weapons off the MERS is to bomb with CCRP. This has to be an error since that restriction completely avoids the easiest bombing mode, CCIP.

 

I think ED should have a look at this becuase although non-MER works properly, MER does not.

OK. Manny, with all due respect, you're confused. There's so much here that I'm not sure where to begin. You state: "With Ripple in MER/KMGU and Salvo "Release all of type"... This is an impossibility. The left hand switch can only be set to one or the other: Salvo at the top of the dial or MER/KMGU at the bottom.

 

You do not get to set the ripple delay (the left hand dial) for MERs. It's preset at 0.3 seconds when you select MER/KGMU. And, if the track you're referring to is the track in the "Weapon Release Demonstration", then you have the left switch set to MER/KGMU and the right switch set to BCE (All) telling the system to release munitions from all 4 of the MER racks you're carrying. And that's what they would have done had you depressed and held down the weapons release key for the duration of the drop sequence. You let go of the trigger when the first bombs were released and interrupted the sequence.

 

Concerning: "The only way I have been able to release all weapons off the MERS is to bomb with CCRP. This has to be an error since that restriction completely avoids the easiest bombing mode, CCIP." This is simply not true. Here is a quick track I made this morning: MER_City I set the two dials the way you did in your track (MER/KMGU and BCE). Since I'm carrying 6 MERs instead of 4 as you were, bombs ripple off all 6 MERs in CCIP. Setting the right-hand switch to "4" would have rippled off the MERs on hardpoints 3,9,4,and 8. Setting it to "2"...you get the idea.

 

I have to leave for work now. If this still is not making sense to you, I'll make something longer with voiceover the first chance I get.

 

Rich

[Manny]

quote=Ironhand

 

OK. Manny, with all due respect, you're confused. There's so much here that I'm not sure where to begin. You state: "With Ripple in MER/KMGU and Salvo "Release all of type"... This is an impossibility.

 

On the WSCP, this is not an impossibility since "Ripple" is your left dial and "Salvo" is your right dial. With the "Ripple" dial, set MER/KMGU and with the "Salvo" dial, set release all weapons of type, i.e. it is after the setting of "4."

 

The left hand switch can only be set to one or the other: Salvo at the top of the dial or MER/KMGU at the bottom.

 

The antecedent position of the "Ripple" dial is release bombs immediately. The final position is MER/KMGU.

 

...that's what they would have done had you depressed and held down the weapons release key for the duration of the drop sequence. You let go of the trigger when the first bombs were released and interrupted the sequence.

 

This is clearly understood now and, although awkward, nonetheless if it is actual on the manufactured bird, then I am cool with it.

 

Corresponding with you, it was easy to determine where my error was. Thank you for a pleasant experience.

[Olgerd]

If you're referring to the 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 on the release mode switch, those are the selected interval between non-MER released munitions and have nothing to do with MERs.

 

Actually these selections changes the interval between MERs release beginning. MERs itself have some interval between it's each single bomb release. These selections differs from "KMGU-MBD" switch position as they allow to get smaller release intervals between each MER/KMGU-2 drop.

 

to Manny

 

In all instances when you set release interval not to "залп" ("zalp", "all",

"momentary release"), you need to hold the release button pushed untill all bombs in the ripple will not drop. In the case of MER/KMGU-2 you will hold the button untill the last MER/KMGU-2 in the ripple will not start unloading.

 

edit:

The second part of my post was for Manny. Just to say how it works again... ;)

[Ironhand]

 

(Snipped)

 

On the WSCP, this is not an impossibility since "Ripple" is your left dial and "Salvo" is your right dial... (Remainder snipped)

Ahhh...okay. Now I see that we were talking past each other in the terminology.

 

However...you also stated that you were not able to get any MERs ever to release munitions in CCIP mode. Is this still a problem for you? I posted a link to a short track in my response two (or three) posts earlier in this thread.

 

Rich