Rusky radar question

[Kula66]

If the 15 turns on his AB, that ET will likely track. I watched one of my wingment get splashed yesterday that way.

 

I've certainly been downed by well aimed ETs on numerous occasions .... worst thing is they have no warning of approach!

 

Usually from sneaky opponents that have ducked under my radar ... so unfair! I need AWACS to make it fair ... just like in RL! ;)

[GGTharos]

I will respond to this statement first and then if necessary to other statemtns from this post!

 

So, GOOD! You do agree that AWACS/EWR(GCI) support does not give too much of an advatnage to Sukhois! I am glad to hear that! therefore, I am here calling for all on line mission (maps) makers to please include AWACS/GCI(EWR) when they build on line missions!

 

And what will you have to complain about when they do and you still get pounded by F-15's?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Well the reason why I cant keep the lock....

Pilotasso, you are trying to avoid answering the question! And tucksonSony simply asked about the engagements of Su-27 with eight R-77's against F-15 with eight Aim-7's! Who's gonna win?

[GGTharos]

I do! I never said that I don't! Let me make it clear! BOTH SIDES SHOULD HAVE AWACS/GCI INCLUDED!

 

Sure ... but For F-15's there's no 'picture call' for the AWACS, so the information provided is extremely limited. EWR doesn't tlak to F-15's at all.

 

So where's the 'real life' of it all? ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

And what will you have to complain about when they do and you still get pounded by F-15's?

Nothing!

[GGTharos]

Pilotasso, you are trying to avoid answering the question! And tucksonSony simply asked about the engagements of Su-27 with eight R-77's against F-15 with eight Aim-7's! Who's gonna win?

 

<humor>

The F-15's, because they obviously have their tactics down pat and will understand the oppositions weapons better ;)

</humor>

[Ulrich]

I do! I never said that I don't! Let me make it clear! BOTH SIDES SHOULD HAVE AWACS/GCI INCLUDED!

 

Ok, it's understood. ;)

 

But I think AWACS won't provide much help (for both sides ).:wink: Pilot is the main part of a plane, not missile.

[Ulrich]

And tucksonSony simply asked about the engagements of Su-27 with eight R-77's against F-15 with eight Aim-7's! Who's gonna win?

 

The best pilot is going to win.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Sure ... but For F-15's there's no 'picture call' for the AWACS, so the information provided is extremely limited. EWR doesn't tlak to F-15's at all. So where's the 'real life' of it all? ;)

Does real F-15 of that time has anything like Su-27 Datlink for GCI/AWACS? Next, F-15 radar is more sofisticated then Su-27's! Also, F-15 has active radar homing missiles and Su-27 don't!

[BuzzU]

Will any of this change with the next patch? Will the F-15 still have the edge?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

<humor>

The F-15's, because they obviously have their tactics down pat and will understand the oppositions weapons better ;)

</humor>

 

:)

[Pilotasso]

Pilotasso, you are trying to avoid answering the question! And tucksonSony simply asked about the engagements of Su-27 with eight R-77's against F-15 with eight Aim-7's! Who's gonna win?

 

It doesnt matter! Because then you would have an arcade SIM. Eeven then you wouldnt have the multi engagement capability of the F-15 with AMRAAM's.

 

It all comes to the tactics. Dont use the Su-27 as you would an F-15. The Eagle is all about drawing the enemy into a fight on equal terms, the Su-27 is all about sneak tactics. Force an F-15 to run and then your missile greater range will most likely to spell his demise. If your realy good dodging missiles, the F-15's will be tempted to fire AMRAAM's under 15 miles, time at wich you can force him to go defensive. If he does he cant turn back without having a missile on his cranium.

 

I dont know why but 90% of the Su-27 pilots rarely use EOS at even short range. I always get radar spike just before they fire. Also Helmet mouted sight is very little used Online.

[Gazehound]

Hajduk - EWR? So you can basically sneak around eos-ing them? Too easy! I know for a fact that =4c= are skillful enough to not have to rely on datalink to supplement radar. I would hate all missions to have ewr/awacs - I like it the hard way!

 

And whats all the fuss about ARHs? If flying a mig I never leave home without R27-ERs. I use them 1st, and I use them in preference to 77s, and I get better results with them. Maybe thats odd but there you go - active radar missiles do not match good tactics. Also I tend not to launch and leave unless I really have to - I just dont find it natural at all

Now compare that with a flanker sortie - no ARH missiles but more alamos, & more fuel. No difference overall - mig can climb like a space rocket, flanker can skirt round radar cones with its extra fuel, & has more missiles.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The best pilot is going to win.

All right! Let me rephrase the question! Two Su-27 with eight R-77’s each against two F-15’s with eight AIM-7 each! That is sixteen ARH R-77’s against sixteen SARH AIM-7’s! Who will win the match?

[GGTharos]

Does real F-15 of that time has anything like Su-27 Datlink for GCI/AWACS? Next, F-15 radar is more sofisticated then Su-27's! Also, F-15 has active radar homing missiles and Su-27 don't!

 

I'll try to explain this as clearly and in as few words as I can:

 

Full sophistication and potential superiority of F-15C radar is not modelled. But we cannot be 100% certain that it IS superior, or how it is superior at this time. However, many modes are missing.

 

The F-15C did not get datalink until 2001, so it should not have it in LOMAC - however it is also missing many other functions that it should have.

 

However, AWACS is supposed to tell you where all enemies are if you ask for it - in LOMAC, the AWACS will only tell you where the nearest enemy to you is, and this is simply not enough.

 

As for ARH missiles, the flanker's missiles are much longer range, and barring a pure A2A fight, the F-15 probably has some A-10's to protect and can't simply turn and run, and leave his A-10's undefended ... of course, some people will do that anyway - too bad for the A-10's.

[GGTharos]

All right! Let me rephrase the question! Two Su-27 with eight R-77’s each against two F-15’s with eight AIM-7 each! That is sixteen ARH R-77’s against sixteen SARH AIM-7’s! Who will win the match?

 

Whoever has more chaff, obviously ;)

 

Actually, the there are some significant tricks a SARH-bearing aircraft can exploit to defeat an ARH bearing opponent in LOMAC. By no means would it be an easy fight, but it isn't impossible at all.

 

Besides, this is a poor comparison: Flankers have many SARH and IRH missiles.

 

F-15's would be limited to 4 AIM-7's a piece.

[Pilotasso]

All right! Let me rephrase the question! Two Su-27 with eight R-77’s each against two F-15’s with eight AIM-7 each! That is sixteen ARH R-77’s against sixteen SARH AIM-7’s! Who will win the match?

 

Even if you cheated online with Lope you realy expect an F-15 to fly with that load? Why do you want to go for these wild "What if"'s? It doesnt evem make a god analogy of current Su VS F-15 anyway... :S

[Gazehound]

All right! Let me rephrase the question! Two Su-27 with eight R-77’s each against two F-15’s with eight AIM-7 each! That is sixteen ARH R-77’s against sixteen SARH AIM-7’s! Who will win the match?

Depends who fights hardest

Its not what you fly its how u fly it.

How about 2 r27-rs vs the rest of the russian ordanance?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/gazehound/7a9b4cb6.jpg

(flying blue)

i know id rather dodge 77s than aim 7s

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hajduk - EWR? So you can basically sneak around eos-ing them? Too easy!

No Gazehound! i never said that. I want BOTH SIDES to have AWACS/GCI! My mistake was that I did not clearly said that in the begining of this discussion!

I know for a fact that =4c= are skillful enough to not have to rely on datalink to supplement radar. I would hate all missions to have ewr/awacs - I like it the hard way!

Thank you for your good words about us! yes, some of our pilots such as =4c=Expert and =4c=Aleksa are really among the best out there!

 

And whats all the fuss about ARHs? If flying a mig I never leave home without R27-ERs. I use them 1st, and I use them in preference to 77s, and I get better results with them. Maybe thats odd but there you go...

you just made my point! You do not fly Su-27! You fly MiG! That is exactly what I've been trying to say here!

[Ulrich]

All right! Let me rephrase the question! Two Su-27 with eight R-77’s each against two F-15’s with eight AIM-7 each! That is sixteen ARH R-77’s against sixteen SARH AIM-7’s! Who will win the match?

 

The best pilots will. Do you think tactics is nothing?

 

P.S. Is it necessary to put "!" in the end of each sentence? ;) I can hear you. :)

[Gazehound]

you just made my point! You do not fly Su-27! You fly MiG! That is exactly what I've been trying to say here!

I fly both.

And MY point is that I can live without 77s on either machine

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Depends who fights hardest

Its not what you fly its how u fly it.

How about 2 r27-rs vs the rest of the russian ordanance?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/gazehound/7a9b4cb6.jpg

(flying blue)

i know id rather dodge 77s than aim 7s

Just take a good look at that screenshot! First two on the list are MiG-29's. Sukhois are down the list, some of them with 4 losses and no kills! Now, I don't know what missiles MiG's used for all of the kills, however, it is the MiG's that are on the top, not the Sukhois!

[BuzzU]

Will any of this change with the next patch? Will the F-15 still have the edge?

 

I'll have to quote myself, because I didn't get an answer. I plan on getting serious with LO and start flying online later. Just like in FB/PF, I never wanted to take the easy plane. Not because i'm an ace, but because if I get a kill, I don't want it because the plane did all the work.

 

So, will the advantage the F-15 has, stay after the next patch? If so, i'll start flying the Russian planes. (and probably die alot)

[504Goon]

Nice work there Gaze.. not too many 77's or ER's on a 29A.........

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Even if you cheated online with Lope you realy expect an F-15 to fly with that load? Why do you want to go for these wild "What if"'s? It doesnt evem make a god analogy of current Su VS F-15 anyway... :S

Pilotasso, you missed the point entirely! I would suggest that you read the thread from the bigining!

 

The question of Su-27 carrying R-77’s and F-15 carrying only AIM-7’s was hypothetical!