Rusky radar question

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hajduk, do you have any problems with MiGs carrying R-77s?

Well, in Lock On they carry only 4, in real life 6 right? Yes, from that point of view I do have a problem. Otherwise, not.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Do the Russian's who host MP put in AWAC / EWR ?

Don't know. However, everybody should include at least EWR.

 

So is it about reality, or is it about gameplay ballance of power?

If you ask me, I would say it is about the marketing. Who in the west would buy a flight simulator in which the F-15 kill ratio is not 100 (or more) to 1 as in real life?

[S77th-GOYA]

BTW, you are way off the R-27ER killing envelope when launching your AIM-120.

 

Out of curiosity, at what range do you think I would fire a 120 usually?

 

And I have the same problem with the MiGs and R-77s. I don't know why they are limited to 4. I asked because you seem to be singling out the F-15. I'm sure you fly against the MiG sometimes as well.

[504Goon]

Out of curiosity, at what range do you think I would fire a 120 usually?

 

And I have the same problem with the MiGs and R-77s. I don't know why they are limited to 4. I asked because you seem to be singling out the F-15. I'm sure you fly against the MiG sometimes as well.

 

Check Shepski's realistic weapon mod, it allows you to carry 6 R-77's.

[Pilotasso]

Check Shepski's realistic weapon mod, it allows you to carry 6 R-77's.

It might be considered a cheat in many of the major servers because not everybody can carry 6 R-77's as they may not have that mod.

[504Goon]

It might be considered a cheat in many of the major servers because not everybody can carry 6 R-77's as they may not have that mod.

Going pretty OT, but anyways it would be good for servers to say on the briefing if that mod is allowed.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Out of curiosity, at what range do you think I would fire a 120 usually?

Burn through. However, after launnch, you can turn your tail and run, and easily escape the "kill envelope" of R-27ER.

 

And I have the same problem with the MiGs and R-77s.

Sure. However, you have eight ARH missiles and MiG-29 has four ARH missiles. Guess who's gonna win the duel?

 

I don't know why they are limited to 4.

Probably oversight.

 

I asked because you seem to be singling out the F-15. I'm sure you fly against the MiG sometimes as well.

Yes, it is the F-15 thats given a "free ride" on on-line servers. And it is not fun to fly Su-27 any more because it does not stand (or very little) a chance against eight AIM-120's.

[Pilotasso]

Burn through. However, after launnch, you can turn your tail and run, and easily escape the "kill envelope" of R-27ER.

 

Burn through?! In all circuntances? It will get you shot at first everytime, and then youll never live long enough to guide your missiles in. No wonder why you complain.

 

 

Sure. However, you have eight ARH missiles and MiG-29 has four ARH missiles. Guess who's gonna win the duel?

 

The answer is quite predictable... IF you choose to fly openly and engage it in equal circuntances. Wich is a very bad tactic. Use something your oponent cant. Like stay hiden as long as you can and then send your Fire and forget missiles using the EOS.

 

 

Yes, it is the F-15 thats given a "free ride" on on-line servers. And it is not fun to fly Su-27 any more because it does not stand (or very little) a chance against eight AIM-120's.

 

You have already demosntrated your not intereted to use aircraft specific tactics. You have much to learn young padawan. You need yet to eat alot more yogurt to increase that midiclorian count... ;)

[GGTharos]

Burn through. However, after launnch, you can turn your tail and run, and easily escape the "kill envelope" of R-27ER.

 

And ... you fly into a missile which has been launched at essentially Rmax at low altitudes?

 

Yes, it is the F-15 thats given a "free ride" on on-line servers. And it is not fun to fly Su-27 any more because it does not stand (or very little) a chance against eight AIM-120's.

 

I think the case is that you simply don't know how to evade these. I know people who can dance around inside the NEZ all day long and not be hit ;)

 

You'll get shot down just as much with GCI since you simply don't have the skills.

 

What prevents an F-15 from closing to BT range and firing on you then, anyway? (Let's see ... hm. Nothing.)

[S77th-GOYA]

Burn through.

 

Not unless I feel like I have to go defensive then. I fire at 8nm or 14.8km if I can. Many times I've been hit around then. Cycling jam and making maneouvers before burnthrough and I've still been hit. Moreso than by active missles.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

And ... you fly into a missile which has been launched at essentially Rmax at low altitudes?

No, I fight the missile. I can easily dodge one AIM-120 and still stay offensive. The second one usually hits me if I attempt to stay offensive. Defensive, no probs, I just turn mu tail and I am OK. However, if I do that I am dead, because smart F-15 pilots knows what I am doing and can finish me up even with AIM-7.

 

I think the case is that you simply don't know how to evade these. I know people who can dance around inside the NEZ all day long and not be hit ;)

Teach me! And also, every respect to those who can "dance" Su-27 in NEZ in on-line maps! For some reason those good pilots don't dance much lately, cause I seldom see anything other then F-15 or MiG-29S on top of the list in on-line games.

 

You'll get shot down just as much with GCI since you simply don't have the skills.

I would like to try! It would be nice if on-line map makers include GCI! GCI does not provide accurate target distance and it does not provide target elevation data. So it would be good to try GCI in on-line fights. Let the F-15 pilots "deal" with it. :)

 

What prevents an F-15 from closing to BT range and firing on you then, anyway? (Let's see ... hm. Nothing.)

You mean with GCI involved? Well, R-27ER HOJ and range advantage. Now, F-15 pilot can "deal" with it, the same way Su-27 pilot has to "deal" with ARH missiles. Playing field would be more equal.

[GGTharos]

Some people know better than to let you 'Hoj' and don't even need to go defensive to trash your shot at long range; )

[wsoul2k]

No, I fight the missile. I can easily dodge one AIM-120 and still stay offensive. The second one usually hits me if I attempt to stay offensive. Defensive, no probs, I just turn mu tail and I am OK. However, if I do that I am dead, because smart F-15 pilots knows what I am doing and can finish me up even with AIM-7.

 

IMHO this is the point.....

 

We have 1 problems here

1-Riple AIM-120...on line most of players fiire at least 3 AIM-120 or 2 AIM-120 and 1 AIM-7 on the same target..I can dodge the first one...some times the second one..but the third always get me ( Low energi etc etc )

 

Solution: Leave with that or change servers where the riple shots are lower ( more rare every day )

 

We can stay talking about this an entire month...but if you have 3 Missiles coming to you ...you will enter in defensive and then you are dead...

 

I know we can work with our wingman.....But this will work only if the F-15 dont have one also.....if so your wingman will enter defensive also very soon

 

If the F-15 is alone ..no problem maybe you or your wingman will be dead because of the riple AIM-120..but the chances are much bigger...because your wingman can push on hin and force the F-15 going defensive..even if he fired in tws you or your wingman will reach him

 

And this is a BIG problem .. your only chance is in a 1 vs 1 combat

or in a 2(or more) vs 1 (F-15)

 

In a 2(F-15) vs 1 (SU-27 ) tha maximun you will get is a 1 F-15 Down and you Down

 

It is a NO WIN condition...

 

Teach me! And also, every respect to those who can "dance" Su-27 in NEZ in on-line maps! For some reason those good pilots don't dance much lately, cause I seldom see anything other then F-15 or MiG-29S on top of the list in on-line games.

 

Sorry GG ...this is something i really wanna see :) if i can see a Su-27 pilot evading 8 AIM-120 from a good F-15 pilot i will became his padwan :cool:

 

I would like to try! It would be nice if on-line map makers include GCI! GCI does not provide accurate target distance and it does not provide target elevation data. So it would be good to try GCI in on-line fights. Let the F-15 pilots "deal" with it. :)

 

 

I think this is a SERVER option.....it is not untrue and it is not complete true..because of the points as GG show few post ago like LOS etc etc...

 

But if the server wanna run it....well deal with it

 

 

Sorry for the poor english

[Ulrich]

Defensive, no probs, I just turn mu tail and I am OK.

 

Do you know any other defensive maneuvers? ;) You talk so much about running...

[wsoul2k]

It isn't that simple, but I will tell you right now that ED -does- wish to simulate the flanker correctly! It is however difficult as I stated, so don't hold your breath!

 

Just to be clear...so this is a real capability of the SU-27..i mean this kind of data-link ( from one air-group to other )

 

If so ...this is a BIG step back....i already can imagine the possibilities of use of this kind of tatic ...it is very sad it was not implented...the F-15 have the TWS ( in a poor way but it is there ) but lets hope in the future projetc it will be implemented :(

[GGTharos]

Just to be clear ... the current relative capability of the datalink is far superior to what is available in reality.

[S77th-GOYA]

Just to be clear ... the current relative capability of the datalink is far superior to what is available in reality.

 

But only when AWACS or EWR is present. In their absence, it appears to be inferior to reality.

[Force_Feedback]

But only when AWACS or EWR is present. In their absence, it appears to be inferior to reality.

 

You know, one day I'll translate the part of the manual which describes how the datalink exactly works, until then, well, let's see... Errm, ok, I guess I'll do it on Friday when the hangover will be over.

Until then: peace, out.

[wsoul2k]

But only when AWACS or EWR is present. In their absence, it appears to be inferior to reality.

 

Yes...Thanks GOYA

 

This is what im trying to confirm ..so ...this dlink capability is real ??

 

From one airgroup to other ??

 

if so this can change the way the SU is flyed....because every AIRGROUP in the air became an AWACS sharing the information to other airgroups

 

I already can imagine...lots of ET in the air :icon_wink

 

A lonely SU flying is no more a lonely SU

 

and yes....we know where you are !! :D

 

 

But mabe we only will see this in the next project

[wsoul2k]

You know, one day I'll translate the part of the manual which describes how the datalink exactly works, until then, well, let's see... Errm, ok, I guess I'll do it on Friday when the hangover will be over.

Until then: peace, out.

 

Force can you send the manual to me ?? i have a friend who works in chinese space program and she is Russian.....

 

maybe she can translate the manual to us

 

add me on msn wsoul1974@hotmail.com

 

or send it to my personal e-mail r.f.m@terra.com.br

[Pilotasso]

Just letting something clear, if any of you think your faring badly online without AWACS, dont kid yourselves, the situation will inprove little with it.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Burn through?! In all circuntances?

The question use the word "usually" not the word "always". So no you would not always, under all circumsantces launch AIM-120 after BT.

No wonder why you complain.

No comments.

 

Like stay hiden as long as you can and then send your Fire and forget missiles using the EOS.

So you suggest I should "hide" and wait until the target is some 5 to 15 km from me so that i can lock him through EOS with 27-ET/R-73. So that is your answer against AIM-120, one of the deadliest Active Radar Homing Missile in the world? What are you joking or something? Why should an F-15 pilot put itself into such a trap?

 

You have already demosntrated your not intereted to use aircraft specific tactics.

Many of you keep talking about "tactics", yet I have not seen an answer to a basic question that I asked so many times on this thread. If it is about tactics, how come, it is the F-15 or MiG-29S on top of the list in on-line games most of the time?

You have much to learn young padawan.

Padawan? What is that?

You need yet to eat alot more yogurt to increase that midiclorian count... ;)

My son is probably little younger then you, so when it comes to an age, I am probably old enough to be your father.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Some people know better than to let you 'Hoj' and don't even need to go defensive to trash your shot at long range; )

So why are you so against including GCI/AWACS in on-line games?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Do you know any other defensive maneuvers? ;) You talk so much about running...

It looks like I am not the only one who does not know. And somehow, it is the F-15 and MiG-29S pilots that know it all? Difference, they have ARH missiles and Su-27 does not.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

We have 1 problems here

1-Riple AIM-120...on line most of players fiire at least 3 AIM-120 or 2 AIM-120 and 1 AIM-7 on the same target..

I do not see that as a problem. I see it as a fact of life. However, the fact of life is that Su-27S was designed to work with GCI/AWACS. Su-27S has a datalink, in real life and in Lock On. Yet, Su27 pilots in Lock On are told "deal with it", I mean deal without GCI/AWACS. Well, I dealt with it, I do not fly Su-27 any more.

Solution: Leave with that or change servers where the riple shots are lower ( more rare every day )

Riple is just fine. Solution is to include GCI/AWACS in on-line servers.

 

We can stay talking about this an entire month...but if you have 3 Missiles coming to you ...you will enter in defensive and then you are dead...

That is exactly right!

 

And this is a BIG problem .. your only chance is in a 1 vs 1 combat

or in a 2(or more) vs 1 (F-15)

This is also very correct statement.