OOB question: How would British forces stage an airborne assault by helo?

[Bahger]

In other words:

 

- What troop transport helo would be used? I'm assuming the UH-1H for a small-scale, infantry-only SpecOps insertion, the CH-47D (Chinook) for a larger-scale op with vehicles?

 

- How many troop dismounts would be involved in either of the above scenarios? Could the CH-47D carry light vehicles too? if so, I'm not sure which, as, apart from the Challenger MBT, the only British vehicle represented in the sim is an IFV that is probably not deployable from a Chinook. Should I give the Brits HMMWVs?

 

- Would the troop transport helos be escorted by assault helos, and if so, which variant, AH-64 A or D?

 

- Finally, if I have assault helos escorting the troop transports, is this a good opportunity to use the new "Escort" command? I would otherwise make all helos be part of the same group but it would be much more elegant to give each group iuts own orders, especially if they could be effectively tethered by "Escort".

 

As always, thanks!

[Druid_]

- Brits would use Sea Kings (Commando version) and Chinooks.

 

- Capacity 28 and 36 troops respectively. CH-47D would carry vehicles externally (underslung hooks x3) up to about 12T, but not with a full load of troops. Hummers would be ok, Brits like to umm <cough> 'borrow' U.S. kit.

 

- If miz is hot then definately. AH-64D (in fact Brit version is better).

 

- Escort action is perfect for this, make sure you set the range to a realistic value.

[Bahger]

Thanks, Druid.

 

I don't see "Escort" as being available to either helo group but "Follow" is. I'm going to experiment with that.

[Druid_]

Yep sorry, except follow for Helis acts like Escort for aircraft i.e. They will follow but also engage. All info is this thread

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=94862&highlight=follow+escort+land

[Eddie]

- Brits would use Sea Kings (Commando version) and Chinooks.

 

Also Merlin and Puma. Both types are far more commonly used than the Sea King, although obviously only the Chinook (and the US Chinook at that) are available in DCS for now.

 

Lynx is also used, but only in a light role as its cargo/troop capacity is pitiful. And it's operated by the Army, so they are always broken.

 

- Capacity 28 and 36 troops respectively. CH-47D would carry vehicles externally (underslung hooks x3) up to about 12T, but not with a full load of troops. Hummers would be ok,

 

Puma can carry 16 troops, Merlin 24.

 

Brits like to umm <cough> 'borrow' U.S. kit.

 

We do not. In fact, we would never use US vehicles etc ourselves. The only time you'll see UK forces in US vehicles is if we are operating directly with them, and US troops would be driving etc. It used to happen in decades past, but these days it's actually the other way around, they tend to borrow/go out and buy the stuff we use.

[Ripcord]

For higher altitudes you might be more limited to Chinooks versus smaller helos. US forces used them a lot more in higher mountainous areas of Afghanistan, since they could create better lift in higher thinner air. Plus you can carry more troops.

 

And at least we have it in DCS World right now.

 

EDIT: Bahger, I like where I think you are going with this. Very cool.

[Bahger]

Thanks for the help guys. Thanks for the encouragement, Ripcord.

 

I have high hopes for this .miz. Proof-of-concept tests for the Chinook airborbne assault with AH-64D escorts have gone well; it's a lot easier to work with helos in the ME than it used to be.

 

No luck with the "Follow" command, though, so for the time being I'm separating the transport and the assaults into independent groups with non-interlocking orders. I've managed to achieve good NOE flying for the ingress and the AI assault routines for the Apaches are impressive. FWIW, the placement of helipads, while useful because it means that helos can land in combat zones, is often eccentric. The player does not have precise control of placement and these LZs often end up under low power cables or amongst trees and buildings. There is also some interesting ownership logic that applies to these helipads; a helo insertion requiring a Chinook to land behind enemy lines can be tricky because any enemy forces in relatively close proximity, even individual infantry units, cause the helipad to turn red -- literally -- and the helo won't land.

 

Does anyone know if a helicopter can be made to hover? This might just be a less cumbersome way to stage an infantry dismount.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Bahger

[Grimes]

Orbit with speed of 0 and a low altitude will cause the helicopter to appear to hover.

[Ripcord]

Yeah Bahger, really I think you aren't going to really need the follow or escort features for these helos. Just give them the same waypoint route, or close to it, and let those apaches roll in a minute or two ahead of your chinook flight.

 

Gotta think that is how it would likely go down in reality -- they would want the gunships to get there first and hose down the LZ area... before the slicks arrive with the troops on board. And depending on how that goes, I would imagine the gunships might hang around a bit to cover the troops on the ground, particularly if any enemy contact takes place. The chinooks, on the other hand, would get in and get the hell out. Not an expert, just going off common sense.

[Bahger]

That's just how I have it, and it looks great. I'm going to do the dimount from a hover, though; nice as it is to have the Chinook land, the ownership and placement rules for LZs are too limiting ATM.

[Ripcord]

Yup, just make it hover at 1 foot. You would probably be unable to tell the difference anyway, if watching it from the air. I suppose if you are in an enemy ground vehicle at the LZ you might notice -- assuming this will be an MP mission.

 

You can actually do some cool stuff that way using that hover method, like 'landing' on a flat-roof building for instance, provided you bring the helo in real nice and slow and don't make it try to drop too much speed or altitude too fast. I'd been planning to incorporate that into a few missions myself -- had not considered AH-64 gunship cover however, that is really going to be a nice touch.

[Ripcord]

I wonder if Russians do much of this sort of helo air-mobile troop insertion kind of thing...? I would imagine so, particularly the VDV airborne units.

[Druid_]

That's just how I have it, and it looks great. I'm going to do the dimount from a hover, though; nice as it is to have the Chinook land, the ownership and placement rules for LZs are too limiting ATM.

 

Why not use the new LAND action. See my previous link. You can land helis anywhere on the map now as long as the terrain is flat enough. You can even make em land on an enemy FARP although they won't touchdown exactly on one of the 4 Pads (might do if you get the placement exactly right though. Lots of trial and error though).

 

We do not. In fact, we would never use US vehicles etc ourselves. The only time you'll see UK forces in US vehicles is if we are operating directly with them, and US troops would be driving etc. It used to happen in decades past, but these days it's actually the other way around, they tend to borrow/go out and buy the stuff we use.

I used to fly the SAS boys around and they were always 'borrowing' U.S. kit. But your right in that the regulars would probably not. If the SAS guys went out with Delta teams they used Hummers occasionally.

 

p.s. Can't believe I forgot about the Brit PUMA, a friend of mine flies them too!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Druid_

[joey45]

The SAS and SBS use what they bloodly well like...

[Jona33]

Why not use the new LAND action. See my previous link. You can land helis anywhere on the map now as long as the terrain is flat enough. You can even make em land on an enemy FARP although they won't touchdown exactly on one of the 4 Pads (might do if you get the placement exactly right though. Lots of trial and error though).

 

The only thing I don't like about the land action is how slow they are at actually landing. It just seems to take too long. The hover, slight overshoot, and then drifting backwards before they actually land takes ages, it just doesn't look right. Going by the descriptions I've read in a couple of books they'd chuck the aircraft onto the ground pretty quickly and never come into the hover.

[Ripcord]

The only thing I don't like about the land action is how slow they are at actually landing. It just seems to take too long. The hover, slight overshoot, and then drifting backwards before they actually land takes ages, it just doesn't look right. Going by the descriptions I've read in a couple of books they'd chuck the aircraft onto the ground pretty quickly and never come into the hover.

 

Hmmm, I can see that, yes.

 

But still I didn't know about the LAND command. Actually I did see it there in ME, but I thought that meant go land at airfield/FARP and not just set down on a point. Another thing to test and play around with, which is cool.

[Bahger]

Well, re. helo landing, this is as good a place as any to comment:

 

- It seems that the problem with not making a LZ (FARP) for the helicopter to land on, is that the only way to determine without one if a he site is acceptable is by a lot of trial and error. Might still do it, though.

 

- Yes, the Chinook does a lot of messing about before it lands. NOT SpecOps procedure at all.

 

- One the chopper lands, you can't get it to take off again. Really! Any flightplan waypoint after the "Land" waypoint invalidates that "Land" waypoint, so if I want my Chinook to take off again after landing for the infil, then land somewhere safe and return for the exfil, I'm pretty sure I'll have to deactivate/reactivate the Chinook every time! Odd, no, or am I missing something?

[Jona33]

- One the chopper lands, you can't get it to take off again. Really! Any flightplan waypoint after the "Land" waypoint invalidates that "Land" waypoint, so if I want my Chinook to take off again after landing for the infil, then land somewhere safe and return for the exfil, I'm pretty sure I'll have to deactivate/reactivate the Chinook every time! Odd, no, or am I missing something?

 

You are, in the advanced waypoint options there is perform task, land. A little triangle allows you to set the position for him to land. And then in stop condition the duration box makes sense for this. After the time is up he will take off again and fly along as much as he likes.

[Bahger]

You are, in the advanced waypoint options there is perform task, land. A little triangle allows you to set the position for him to land. And then in stop condition the duration box makes sense for this. After the time is up he will take off again and fly along as much as he likes.

You are right, but my best efforts to get this command to work result in a spectacular fail. Please see track in separate thread.