Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Keep doing it all wrong... (ME... ME keep doing it all wrong!!!! ME ME ME.... right ?)p51d-heli.trk Edited March 9, 2013 by jcomm Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Nah.. the FM is wrong here.. this is why I mentioned the spin problem. I mean you have full flaps, left rudder.. engine going nuts.. and it wants to yaw right --- really!! How about a plain hard left yaw, drop left wing, and nose into the ground. This is a Sim with potential, but they must take a few notes from Olegs IL2 wrt FMs on prop aircraft.. seriously Edited March 9, 2013 by Der_Fred
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Nah.. the FM is wrong here OK. So would you like to give your personal real-life P-51D a wee airing out, and then after flying her post some evidence how these ED bozos f**ked it all up, please? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 Well, maybe you didn't notice, but I kept more than 6º right rudder AND ailerom trim!... I didn't neutralize the rudder and aileron trim during the all track, plus the wind, which is blowing strong and with max turbulence factor... Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Olegs IL2 wrt FMs on prop aircraft.. seriously Seriously, after this particular comment exactly, I'm inclined to think you're full of it. Edited March 9, 2013 by msalama The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
159th_Viper Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Keep doing it all wrong... What exactly is that supposed to mean? Do you have an issue that you want reported/investigated/commented on? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Well Fred, all I can tell you from this particular piccie is that you seem to have all the ornaments down and still sufficient airspeed for flying. So what's the point again, if there indeed was one? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Seriously, after this particular comment exactly, I'm inclined to think you're full of it. Remember that IL2 is based on prop a/c and Oleg's slow speed modelling is fairly good, compared this example. DCS is new into prop a/c with the P51, and one should use examples where available. I would like to see this Sim continue where IL2/Clod lost it. Full of it.. sure.. but always open to suggestions or correction Edited March 9, 2013 by Der_Fred
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Well Fred, all I can tell you from this particular piccie is that you seem to have all the ornaments down and still sufficient airspeed for flying. So what's the point again, if there indeed was one? That's a screeny from the jcomm's track, showing the elevator and rudder positions.. besides full flaps and wheelies
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Oleg's slow speed modelling is fairly good, compared this this example.It is? And how? Can you prove all that? Sorry Fred, but to me at least you just look like another IL-2 fanboy, i.e. a dime in a dozen. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
willzah1313 Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 The FM in this is not wrong here(and very much more advanced than IL2). Pls dont make yoyo come and spend his precious time explaining why ;)
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) What exactly is that supposed to mean? Do you have an issue that you want reported/investigated/commented on? Ah! Sorry if I didn't make myself clear... My intent with these tracks is to show those who think that the p51d is uncontrollable under some circumstances that in fact it is, provided we get the proper hands-on experience. On this track as well as in another one I posted yesterday - I DID IT ALL WRONG - using the wrong procedures, and sometimes pushing the benevolence of the p51d FDM to it's limits. Even with all of those wrong control inputs, I was always able to recover on time!!! Add to it the fact that on both tracks the weather (crosswind component and turbulence factor) are huge! So, to sum up - it's about what I did wrong, and not about anything wrong with the FDM in DCS!!! Edited March 9, 2013 by jcomm Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 showing the elevator and rudder positions.. besides full flaps and wheelies 1st, doesn't look like anything out of ordinary to me, i.e. some up elevator & a wee touch of left rudder. And 2nd, who exactly are you to judge? Plus 3rd, what happens GRAPHICALLY in a sim doesn't necessarily represent what's actually happening physically. So again I'm forced to ask, DO you really have a point there? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Don't wind yourself up... I think this sim is way better than IL2... just that the FM doesn't look right in certain scenarios, and question it. Without getting into how more advanced anything is more than the other which I doubt you be able to prove anyway - as 1C nor DCS are going to expose their models. Talk about IL2 fan boys.. are you not doing the same with DCS
159th_Viper Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 ... just that the FM doesn't look right in certain scenarios, and question it.... By all means do so. Just do so in a manner that makes sense. Is there currently an issue? Yes? No? I'm buggered if I know if this thread is anything to go by. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) a wee touch of left rudder. So you agree.. it's a teeny weeny bit of touch of rudder... Edited March 9, 2013 by Der_Fred
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 By all means do so. Just do so in a manner that makes sense. Is there currently an issue? Well Yes... Looking at the track wrt to control inputs (viewed from the outside), I'm surprised that a left wing stall condition did not occur.. that's all.
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 which I doubt you be able to prove anyway First off, you started all the claiming, so the burden of proof is on you. Talk about IL2 fan boys.. are you not doing the same with DCS Nope, not really, I'm just trying to expose the faults in your argument. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 Well, what can I say? I thought this was a nice track to see, try, just for the sake of showing how controllable the p51d is, even under adverse conditions. As a RW pilot and although I have never flown an engined aircraft as a pilot (I'm a glider pilot), and even less a p51d-type aircraft, but with many years of interest in aviation and particularly in flight simulators - I started flying in 1980, and discovered MSFS in 1988 - I believe I can say that the way the p51d model in DCS behaved on these tracks makes all sense to me, and brings up the excellent FDM in this sim, not the contrary... Of course there will allways be limitations, but, it's excellent, for me the best we have presently. Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Der_Fred Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 I never claimed to be a IL2 fanboy.. this was your claim. I questioned DCS P51 low speed FM, and suggest that looking at IL2's low speed model might help. I mentioned that IL2 nor DCS would not expose their models.. so there's nothing provable beyond this... DCS might take note wrt to prop a/c... that remains to be seen. But poor old jcomm managed to land his a/c on a short taxi strip
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 But poor old jcomm managed to land his a/c on a short taxi strip :beer: Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 This is a Sim with potential, but they must take a few notes from Olegs IL2 wrt FMs on prop aircraft.. seriously:megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol: :megalol: May be a bug, of course, but Il-2 has waaaaaay much things to learn from this sim than anything mate :smilewink:. Just for the record, I read about UH-1H is yet proven to reduce tail rotor light helicopters training time, isn't it? Well I can say DCS P-51 is proven to reduce advanced aircraft training time as I personally was let fly solo in a C172RG (constant speed prop, retractable gear) in only 5 hours what usually takes 8 to 10 hours... Il-2 is veeeeeery far from saying anything like that. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
msalama Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 No mutta tämmöstähän tää on näitten illuhörhöjen kanssa, ei maha mitään. 1 The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
mmaruda Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 What is the damn point in hating on IL-2 here? For the time it went out, it was the most realistic prop sim, period. It still has a pretty descent FM if you consider how old it is. To my mind, the FMs in IL-2 and DCS are quite similar. Obviously DCS is more advanced, but the Mustang feels and acts very similar in both sims. Those of you who compare and say IL-2 "tastes like cardboard" need to go out and catch some fresh air cause you might as well be hating Quake 1 cause it does not look as good as Crysis. Oleg's FM was state of the art sim tech 12 years ago and it is still impressive how it withstood the test of time. I'm fairly certain without IL-2, we would not have the Mustang today. Now, that said, what Jcomm showed in the track if probably the most important difference between the two mentioned sims - in DCS, you have a better feel for plane and you can react in time, in IL-2 if you screw up, you stall and you cannot do anything about it before you fall low enough.
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