Those FDM details UNIQUE to DCS World!!!

[Krupi]

I can kind of agree with a ww1 biplane but everything points to the same system for 777 ww2 game.

 

Cliffs of Dover may have had many flaws but progress certainly was not one of them, at least they tried to give us more of the start up procedure.

[msalama]

Sactimonious my behind ;) Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and besides, all your points were completely valid IMO. But there's still basic stuff they've omitted such as fuel management, isn't there? Meaning their angle of approach is still more gamey than, say, ED's IMO. But each to their own, i.e. nothing objectively wrong with their approach persay...

[msalama]

points to the same system for 777 ww2 game.

+1

 

Have a wee bit of a hard time accepting this too. WW2 crates were by and large much more complex already, and a proper sim should IMHO reflect/model that.

[Darkwolf]

Well - they is a lot of things that make DCS a better "flight simulator" than 777's game. BUT - They is also a lot of things that makes ROF a better "war simulator" than DCS. They both have strong and weak points, so debating which is the best may be another endless debate.

 

Both are great games/sims, and I enjoy every minute i spend on both game. I think 777 team and ED team are good teams, and can learn from each other.

 

The simplified system don't disturb me that much - Thus i will lack "buttons" in the game, i will also be able to convert a lot of non-simmers-friends into virtual flying.

[Darkwolf]

Anyway....

 

....rof is better. You can shoot a 1911. :P

[msalama]

...at least they tried to give us more of the start up procedure.

And now that the ED Focke is official I'm sure we'll get _ALL_ of the startup procedure, plus a carpload of other (possibly hair-raising) peculiarities thrown in too. So who'd possibly need anything else is what I'm wondering ;)

[Smokin Hole]

I was completely against the P-51. I thought it a terrible move and perhaps the last desperate struggle in ED's decline. Well I was wrong and the Mustang has proven to be quite fun. I am still not sure what to do with it but I continue to build little sandboxes in the editor and find myself puttering around in the P-51 more than I do any other sim, atm. The P-51 and FW locking horns over Nevada is going to be fun as hell and I hope that this scenario, rediculous as it is, won't deter the history buffs out there from enjoying so online prop mayhem.

[Echo38]

Careful m8 ;) You just opened an old can of worms, viz. whether it's really possible for an armchair pilot to land a plane IRL they know virtually. Many, many an Internet war has been fought over this already...

 

I've landed an airplane in the real world. My instructor remarked that I performed better than most students; upon my mentioning my extensive flight sim experience, he agreed that it was the cause. Now, I must stress that sims cannot replace real training, and overconfidence can be a real danger to experienced simmers who are beginning real flight training--sometimes, the sim and the reality differ, and sometimes that difference is dramatic. That said, a good sim does impart a great deal of good information to the student, and since I did land a real airplane almost unassisted (using my sim experience), I think I can say with some authority that those who dismiss sims as a training tool are full of crap. ; )

 

For this to work realistically in Rise of Flight (we want real, right?) a mechanic would need to come over, help you into the pit, tell you that the engine is warm and all is in working order. He would then run the prop through after you have ensured that the mags are off. You would then call switch on and he would prop you and quickly get out of the way. At your call the guys holding the tips would let go and you would be off. This would require an ARMA level of personnel modeling and animation. In other words, starting a WWI airplane is something someone ELSE does for you. You just manage mags and mixture.

 

I wouldn't disagree with this entirely, but I have a couple of issues with this. One thing is that different WWI birds had different degrees of pilot & mechanic input required. One of the guys at the RoF boards works with real WWI aircraft (high-fidelity replicas, I think), and he says that at least some of the airplanes can be started up entirely by the pilot, with a bit of hopping around--no mechanic needs to be present during the startup.

 

But, more to the point: with WWI fighters, there are a number of things that the pilot does have to do, which RoF doesn't let you do. Even discounting the out-of-cockpit stuff, there are quite a few things that need to be done in the cockpit which are not modelled in RoF, or which are modelled but unrealistically automated. This is pretty much my sole problem with RoF and 777's priorities, although--as I mentioned--it doesn't mean that I think they're bad. It just isn't my preference to have a good game with some strong simulator elements (which is what RoF is)--it's my preference to have a complete simulation of the aircraft's operation (which is what DCS is, approximately speaking).

Edited March 16, 2013 by Echo38

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I've landed an airplane in the real world. My instructor remarked that I performed better than most students; upon my mentioning my extensive flight sim experience, he agreed that it was the cause. Now, I must stress that sims cannot replace real training, and overconfidence can be a real danger to experienced simmers who are beginning real flight training--sometimes, the sim and the reality differ, and sometimes that difference is dramatic. That said, a good sim does impart a great deal of good information to the student, and since I did land a real airplane almost unassisted (using my sim experience), I think I can say with some authority that those who dismiss sims as a training tool are full of crap. ; )

I also did, even there's a video...

 

 

A friend gifted to me (Tuckie) and that was the point where I decided I had to get my license. I flew all the time, from taxi to land, of course with a instructor at my side (a great one I have to say), and made some manoeuvres inflight, even stalls... that with four guys inside the aircraft and I was the only not pilot (at that moment) but simmer. When I started my PPL training it wasn't different, I flew and landed from the very first day. My friend can also say sims helps a lot, he was second prize on Spanish aerobatics championship elementary level with just his brand new PPL.

 

Anyway of course sims helped me greatly (and sadly I've to say Il-2 was the one for me, we hadn't still P-51 then). BUT, now I have two licences and know how to fly I've to say I realize I also had some mistakes and misunderstandings BECAUSE the sims. I really didn't understood what landing means, for example how to roll out and flaring properly. We can say, with simulators experience I was able to get the aircraft on ground more or less safely, but I really didn't knew how to land.

 

So, of course sims helps A LOT, but if you try in RL do it with a good instructor at your side, otherwise don't try at home :lol:.

 

S!

[Darkwolf]

Time to get some pop corn. I smell loooong debate.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Time to get some pop corn. I smell loooong debate.

Why? We're both saying same thing, sims helps but also will kill you if you are overconfident and you think you know everything only with sims. You've to rely on your instructor and RL experience isn't substituted by nothing although training is greatly helped and accelerated with sims experience. I said also in another post, I was left solo fly in only 5 hours in an advanced C172RG aircraft, and some of it had to do for sure with P-51 experience operating manifold and rpm (not to say procedure from start to land is quite similar). So for me it was very fast (usually it takes 8 to 10 hours fly solo on that model) but those 5 hours weren't substituted by simulator. I think the point is clear enough.

 

S!

[Echo38]

So, of course sims helps A LOT, but if you try in RL do it with a good instructor at your side

 

Exactly! This is pretty much a one-sentence summary of my whole paragraph. : D

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I believe their are 3 phases in the sim / RL cycle for a pilot...

 

When I started flying personal computers weren't even available - 1980.

 

It was not until 1988 that I used MSFS 2.0 the first time.

 

I am sure that some of my skills got a positive contribution from using some simulators. After you get your brain accustomed to the "seat of the pants" and visual perspective we have in RL (specially for those who, like me, use only 1 monitor), you will find things in a good simulator that will certainly contribute to make you a better pilot in RL if you care to use the sim not just for gaming.

 

I used many simulators since 1987, about all I can think about (civilian), and a few military sims too. Honestly, DCS is the first simulator that fulfills my wishes regarding flight dynamics, systems accuracy (well, for airliners, and regarding systems accuracy and complexity there was Aerowinx PS1 the great 744 sim), and overall ambiance, even if I do not use it for air combat (yet...).

 

Although I do not hold more than the glider pilot license, and I had the chance to fly a few prop aircraft from the right seat, with no problems at all, I am sure that if by any chance I was once able to get the controls of a p51d I would probably do most of the stuff right :-)

 

Ah! The 3 phases, because these days it's normal to start with the sim before going to fly for real:

Phase 1) "Learn" to fly in a sim, not bad depending on which sim, and how you use it and your controllers allow you to...

Phase 2) Learn to fly for real, clearing some possible bad habits brought from the virtual world, IMH not quite much if you come from DCS...

Phase 3) As a pilot in RL, use simulators and find out that they actually can add to your proficiency, in many aspects, from navigation practice, to procedural and even MCC training, and, systems management on more complex aircraft, and, with the exception of just a few remarkable sims, even in flying the aircraft correctly.

 

Well, in the soaring simulation world there is Silent Wings, which I pretty much consider to be the DCS of soaring simulators (and yes, I also used Condor... and a couple more older soaring simulators...)

Edited March 17, 2013 by jcomm

[ARM505]

Wish I could find the link now, but there's a vid floating around of a guy who did a whole flight, from being lined up to completing the landing roll using only sim experience. The instructor with him didn't say a word from 'You have control' when lined up until 'I have control' at the completion of the landing roll. These are the days of the GoPro - somebody will have done it, and filmed it for posterity.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Wish I could find the link now, but there's a vid floating around of a guy who did a whole flight, from being lined up to completing the landing roll using only sim experience. The instructor with him didn't say a word from 'You have control' when lined up until 'I have control' at the completion of the landing roll. These are the days of the GoPro - somebody will have done it, and filmed it for posterity.

You've my own vid in previous post, just I didn't sold it as AMAZING VID WHERE ONLY SIMULATOR EXPERIENCE GUY FLY AND LANDS ALONE, but it's that... :thumbup:

 

I've seen the vid you mean, and he's a pretty bad pilot if he have the sim experience he says, personally I did far better and sure Echo38 also did better.

 

S!

[porky_pig]

Wish I could find the link now, but there's a vid floating around of a guy who did a whole flight, from being lined up to completing the landing roll using only sim experience. The instructor with him didn't say a word from 'You have control' when lined up until 'I have control' at the completion of the landing roll. These are the days of the GoPro - somebody will have done it, and filmed it for posterity.