Thoughts and ideas on FC 1.11

[DaveRindner]

went straight to v1.11 sence I always use the latest, and did not use initial releases of FC. Here are some of my thoughts. I like it, for the most part. There are issues that I am experiencing.

SU-25T issues and thoughts. I love the realistic flight model. I wish they would apply AFM to rest of the aircraft, especcially A10 and Mig-29.

Landing SU-25T is very difficult and unreliable.

-60% of the time the drouge chute FAILS to deploy. The rear chute door is open but there is no chute. I deploy the chute as soon as my main gear touches.

-Sadly when that happens the wheelbreak fails to work also. My touchdown parameters are 245-255 kph with -3 sink rate. So what happens is that I am unable to slow the aircraft on the ground, and it shreds the tires.

-Also my NWS drags significantly to the left when taxing, taking off, and landing. Its not my rudder (Saitek X45) as it works fine in flight and on other aircraft. Its not rudder centering or rudder trimming issue. Its something in the sim itself.

-VIKHR is not a guaranteed hit. 25% of time is just so slightly misses the target, becouse of its corkscrew flight. I guess that kinds of realistic. BTW I find that salvo of 2 VIKHRs takes out a M48 and M60, and 3 takes out Leopard and M1. What is the point of corkscrew flight?

-I am assuming that turn rate of 25T is realistic. If thats so, that thing is dog in a fight. It also departs easily when doing rudder/aleron rolls and banks. I feel kind of sorry for real-life SU-25T drivers. Building SA is bitch in that aircraft. Thank God for external views in flight sims!

-I miss the Western style localizer and deviation bars from ILS symbology from previous versions. This new circle within a circle ILS HUD symbology is hard for me to understand. Did the Russians try to reinvent the wheel?

IMHO, the FC ILS makes carrier recovery much harder. In previous version as long as I kept airspeed at 250-270 kph and kept the low tick mark of localiser/deviation bar about where the #2 wire, I would successfully trap 75% of time, without a bolter.

-I really wish that Russian aircraft had Western style CCIP. In visual conditions, there is no need to designate a target then attack. Neither Eos or radar is needed for CCIP attack. Overall I don't like Russian ground attack HUD symbology. I appreciate the realism of ED implementation though. I just wish that Russian deisgners would just realize the superiority of Western HUD symbology and use it. Both in FC and in previus LockON I could on not hit side of the barn with SU-25 rockets and even less with cannon. It felt like the aiming reticle was useless. I would have the target rght in center of reticle with flightpath stabilized and the whole salvo would miss utterly! Bombing with SU-25 (old) is utterly useless, there is no symbology whatsoever!

-IMHO when on receiving end of AIM-120, I think there is a no-escape zone if you start the break within 3nm of missile. And thats for Mig-29. I have yet to successfully evade Scorpion attack in SU-25T. It turns way to slow. Nice touch on AIM-120 smokeless motors!

-Would it be unrealistic to have somekind of nightvision HUD mode, or Falcon4 night goggle display for night missions. Don't the Russians, in reality, have something like NTS, or NVG for their aircrews.

-Both B-52 and B-One need REAL ECM packages. They are way to easy to detect and kill.

-Speaking of night. Nights are way to bright! The terrain is clearly visible. I think that whole night display in LockOn needs to be reworked. It does not feel like night. I use the highest quality settings. I am curious does LockOn uses DirectX(i.e. Direct3D) or OpenGL?

-Following threat aircraft should be considered to be included in future revs. Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, F-15E (F-15I for Israel), F-15C/D with AESA radar, F/A-18E/F with AESA radar, F/A-18D, Grippen, SuperGaleb, AMX, C-17, C-5A, F-16 MLU, B-2, YAL-1A 747 airborne laser, F-16I Soufa, F/A-22, JSF, TR-1/2, E-8 JSTARTS, Harrier GR7, Harrier GR9, HarrierII (USA), P-3C, Tornado ADV, Jaguar, MI-28 Havok, Lynx helo, Puma helo, Eurocopter Tiger helo, MD500 LOAH helo.

-Following weapons should be considered. Meteor BVR missile for Typhoon, Skyflash for Tornado, ASSRAM for EU aircraft, BVRAAM for F-15 and F/A-22, AGM-142 for B-52G/H, Python series and Rafael series for Israeli aircraft, JDAM, MOAB (for C-130), LongShot CBU-97. AIM-54C is no longer in inventory, perhaps it should be removed. I realise that this may be UNPC but I would like to see tactical nukes for all sides where applicable. B-61, and W-80 devices for Americans and British, and equivalent weapons for Russians.

-Following vessels. Note: aircraft carriers cannot enter the Black Sea, as they cannot pass through the Bosporus, but anyway....

British carriers and amphib ships, French carrier and Foch and new DeGaule, US Tarrawa and Wasp class LHD, Vidby Island class amphibious vessels, Arleigh Burke class FFG, underway replenishment ships for all nations in sim, LCAC, Lebed class hovercraft.

-Following ground units.

Infantry(dug in, light, mechanized for all sides). Troops should be a munition for aircraft with transport mission. LeClerc MBT, Challenger II MBT, Warrior IFV, HEMTT truck, towed artillery(deployed and in travel configs), engeneer units.

-Following static objects

Aluminum airstrips,feild hospitals, troop bivovaucs, underground bunker with airvents.

-Following tasks and commands for aircraft

Drop/pickup troops for aircraft with transport role.

Lase/Designate target

Field Land/Take off from any field for helicopters.

Loiter(both as a timed task, and command).

[Gazehound]

Welcome to lockon!

Nice to see new faces

 

Drougue chute always deploys for me :S

Vikhr is a guaranteed hit from max range, you can kill M-60s in one hit and lepards etc in 2, but not always.

There is nothing in the sim itself that drags your nosewheel to the left, other than wind, damage, input, dodgy setup.

 

Regarding Su25/Su25T - the rockets and bombing modes are not useless -

practice. You dont even have to hit a target full on to kill it with a S25.

 

There is symbology for the su25 Aiming glass when bombing, have you done the training things?

 

-oh a lot of the aircraft you wish to fly against will never be seen in lockon, since it is based roughly around the 80s/90s

[Kula66]

On the drogue shoot issue ... are you landing too fast? If so, the shoot gets ripped off!

Those big Rusky rockets are just great ... better than the weedy US weapons - even against ships!. And those multi-gun pods, with various aiming modes, while not in the same league as the GAU-8, are visually brill .... especially at night! Always a bit surprised how ineffective they are, even against light vehicles ... I would have though 6 x 23mm guns against a truck convoy would be devastating ... probably my aim :(

[504 Wolverine]

Hello and welcome. :)

 

1. Ensure that your throttle is fully retarded and that your speed is below 300 Km/h before releasing chute. If not the chute will be torn off. Chute works 100% of the time for me when within these parameters.

 

2. Brakes work for me as well. I usually approach at 250-260 Km/h at -3 VS with airbrakes deployed, retard throttles and flare at threshold and pop chute. I f I do happen to have popped my chute in flight by accident then I usually coast down the runway for a while before braking.

 

3. I would look again at your rudder settings. Usually X-45's like mine have a problem with rudder centre settings. Ensure you ingame rudder settings are a curved axis with a slight bit of dead zone.

 

4. Vikhr is a guaranteed hit when launched within its parameters but if you are to close to the target I would not fire one because it takes a while to stabilise its flight path.

 

5. Yes the Su-25T is a dog for manouvering in the sim and RL. They added all that weight but kept the same engines as the vanilla su-25. Again if you keep her within her flight parameters you can throw her around the place.

 

6. The updated HUD info and the bombing modes/controls are excellent now compared to 1.02 and IMHO it is far easier than the western style. I suggest that us use the laser to help you in rocket and gun attacks but in time with lots of practice you will no longer need it.

 

7. I only fly the Su-25T and while it is hard to dodge amraams it is not impossible. Myself and 44th eagle had a good duke out on our server a few nights ago and it actually got down to a heater fight. It was a race to see whos heater hit first, I lost. lol. If you ever get a missile launch warning or lock warning the start to evade right away with knotching ECM and chaff&Flares. Never fly straight.

 

8. I don't know if the other aircraft will be getting it but NV is being introduced in 1.2 Black Shark

 

After 1.2 Black Shark all work on Lock-on will be finished (well apart from patches) and no other units or aircraft will be fitted so the units and aircraft you mention will not be added to lockon.

 

However ED are going to start work on a "Tank killer" sim probably consisting of the Su25/T, Ka-50, A-10 and AH-64 and a fighter sim with the F-16 Block 50/52 and the MiG-29.

[britgliderpilot]

Re nosewheel steering dragging to the left - this is a realism touch, believe it or not.

 

The nosegear is offset to accomodate the cannon mounted underneath the fuselage - so the aircraft does yaw left on the ground.

 

 

My chute sometimes tears away much below 300km/h - I deploy at 200km/h with throttles at idle.

 

 

See comments on Su25T being a pig ;)

Don't horse it around, maneuvre with combat flaps, and don't load it up heavily. IRL it wouldn't be used in combat with all pylons full of heavy weapons.

 

 

Russian ILS is just the way the Russians do it. You suggesting they could get into a western military cockpit in the Cold War and copy the ILS? History, old chap, history . . . . ;)

 

 

Just out of interest, have you ever flown at night?

 

 

The Su25 (Vanilla Frog) does have a bomb-aiming target - it's very simple, it's a glorified reflector sight, but it's there and it works pretty well.

 

 

Best way of dodging an AMRAAM is not to have one launched at you ;)

 

 

New weapons and aircraft will not be added - party because they don't fit the existing planeset, and partly because there is approximately zero information on them in the public domain ;)

 

 

Welcome to FC!

There's always more to learn . . . . grin.

[Weta43]

Welcome,

re the landing thing(s) - practice, practice, practice.

As mentioned the chute will pop if you deploy too early, but it's quite do-able to land only using the wheel brakes anyway. Don't make violent course corrections and brake at the same time & your tyres should survive.

Keep the parachute for landing on little short bits of road before driving into town for sight seeing - or refueling when you run out of gas before you get home! :-)

[GGTharos]

-VIKHR is not a guaranteed hit. 25% of time is just so slightly misses the target, becouse of its corkscrew flight. I guess that kinds of realistic. BTW I find that salvo of 2 VIKHRs takes out a M48 and M60, and 3 takes out Leopard and M1. What is the point of corkscrew flight?

 

The Vikhr has single-axis control ... meaning it can only go up/down but not left/right ... in order to make it turn in all directions is must constantly roll, which results in the corkscrew flightpath. This makes the missile cheaper and lighter.

 

-I am assuming that turn rate of 25T is realistic. If thats so, that thing is dog in a fight. It also departs easily when doing rudder/aleron rolls and banks. I feel kind of sorry for real-life SU-25T drivers. Building SA is bitch in that aircraft. Thank God for external views in flight sims!

 

It isn't a fighter, it's a ground-attack aircraft. It has no business engaging other aircraft ;)

 

-I miss the Western style localizer and deviation bars from ILS symbology from previous versions. This new circle within a circle ILS HUD symbology is hard for me to understand. Did the Russians try to reinvent the wheel?

IMHO, the FC ILS makes carrier recovery much harder. In previous version as long as I kept airspeed at 250-270 kph and kept the low tick mark of localiser/deviation bar about where the #2 wire, I would successfully trap 75% of time, without a bolter.

 

Learn to use the russian ILS mode. It's pretty easy. That's how the Russians did it, and that's how it's implemented - what do you mean 'did Russians try to reinvent the wheel?' anyway ... are you implying that the US invented ILS systems or something?

 

-I really wish that Russian aircraft had Western style CCIP. In visual conditions, there is no need to designate a target then attack. Neither Eos or radar is needed for CCIP attack. Overall I don't like Russian ground attack HUD symbology. I appreciate the realism of ED implementation though. I just wish that Russian deisgners would just realize the superiority of Western HUD symbology and use it. Both in FC and in previus LockON I could on not hit side of the barn with SU-25 rockets and even less with cannon. It felt like the aiming reticle was useless. I would have the target rght in center of reticle with flightpath stabilized and the whole salvo would miss utterly! Bombing with SU-25 (old) is utterly useless, there is no symbology whatsoever!

 

You obviously just haven't learned how to use it. Either way, wishing for western HUDs on Russian aicraft does not make it so. Many people fly these aircraft in LOM and they do just fine.

As for 'superiority of western displays' ... that's debeatable. Different design philosophies, different needs, different displays. That you can't use them is your hang-up, not the designers ;)

Either way, have you seen any of the old western HUD symbology? It wasn't much different from the Russian ones back then in that it didn't display quite as much. That's right, you've got older systems on the Russian planes than the ones on the western planes in some respects in this game. They are what they are.

 

-IMHO when on receiving end of AIM-120, I think there is a no-escape zone if you start the break within 3nm of missile. And thats for Mig-29. I have yet to successfully evade Scorpion attack in SU-25T. It turns way to slow. Nice touch on AIM-120 smokeless motors!

 

Practice practice practice! Online there are players who'll regularely trash my AMRAAMs in their 25Ts or 25's.

 

-Would it be unrealistic to have somekind of nightvision HUD mode, or Falcon4 night goggle display for night missions. Don't the Russians, in reality, have something like NTS, or NVG for their aircrews.

 

Yes, it would be unrealistic. The current aircraft modelled in LOMAC are pre-NVG era.

 

-Both B-52 and B-One need REAL ECM packages. They are way to easy to detect and kill.

 

Last I heard about the B-1B's jammer package, it was over budget, and 'dissapointing' ... of course, that was a while ago. By the way, B-52's ARE easy to detect. B-1B's maybe a little harder, and they should have more capability... then again, the Russian bombers aren't fairing any better in this game.

 

-Following threat aircraft should be considered to be included in future revs. Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, F-15E (F-15I for Israel), F-15C/D with AESA radar, F/A-18E/F with AESA radar, F/A-18D, Grippen, SuperGaleb, AMX, C-17, C-5A, F-16 MLU, B-2, YAL-1A 747 airborne laser, F-16I Soufa, F/A-22, JSF, TR-1/2, E-8 JSTARTS, Harrier GR7, Harrier GR9, HarrierII (USA), P-3C, Tornado ADV, Jaguar, MI-28 Havok, Lynx helo, Puma helo, Eurocopter Tiger helo, MD500 LOAH helo.

 

Some of these aren't even in service?! This sim attempts to be realistic in a lot of ways, and ... the YAL-1A? Please.

There won't be any F-22's or their counterparts for a while, either, if ever. And why do we even need P-3C's? No need for anything with AESA, either.

 

-Following weapons should be considered. Meteor BVR missile for Typhoon, Skyflash for Tornado, ASSRAM for EU aircraft, BVRAAM for F-15 and F/A-22, AGM-142 for B-52G/H, Python series and Rafael series for Israeli aircraft, JDAM, MOAB (for C-130), LongShot CBU-97. AIM-54C is no longer in inventory, perhaps it should be removed. I realise that this may be UNPC but I would like to see tactical nukes for all sides where applicable. B-61, and W-80 devices for Americans and British, and equivalent weapons for Russians.

 

No nukes, and no weapons that weren't in service in the 90's, in general.

 

-Following vessels. Note: aircraft carriers cannot enter the Black Sea, as they cannot pass through the Bosporus, but anyway....

British carriers and amphib ships, French carrier and Foch and new DeGaule, US Tarrawa and Wasp class LHD, Vidby Island class amphibious vessels, Arleigh Burke class FFG, underway replenishment ships for all nations in sim, LCAC, Lebed class hovercraft.

 

I think they're trying to concentrate more on the 'flight' aspect of this sim, rather than just throwing random extra ships around which by your own admissions shouldn't even be there in some cases ...

[DaveRindner]

Thanx for the replies. Good info!

 

Hey gents! Thanx for replies. Good info. I did not realise that sim concentrates on 90's. Then how come there is R-77, KA-50, KA-52,SU-34 in the sim? Thats a 21 Century hardware. Isn't SU-25T (SU-39?) a 5th gen attack aircraft? Only now entering service, or has it been in service for a while? Makes me wish that LOMAC would be more up to date with respect to geopolitical situations, and systems deployed, or about to be deployed. But its still the best. Also explains the Soviet references in campaigns.

Good info on parachutes being ripped off on SU-25T. But then my touchdown paramemters are always as follows; 245-255 Km/p, -3 VS sink rate, flaps in landing position, air-brakes out.

Very good info on VIKHR employment! Makes sence, short range deployment would result in higher screw radius which impacts PK. So bassically LOMAC went from being a SU-27/33 simulator to being a SU-25/T sim. OK I can live with that! More power to ED. BTW what is the 'real' Russian callname for SU-25T. Please don't tell me that Russian aircrews fighting in Chechnya are calling it Frogfoot. NATO codes are sometimes south of being insulting or just plain stupid.

They chosen by a NATO committie in Belgium, so that they are clear when pronouced over UHF/VHF comms in heavy jamming environment, by scarred soldiers. Some are supercool, Backfire being my favorite.

I really love how Russians name their equipment, at least in some cases. Now in US/NATO, HARM targeting pod, is called HarmTargetingSystem(HTS). Now would the Russians called their pod plain ETS, nope! :] They gootta comeup with possibly the coolest name for a equipment in defense industry. Phantasmagoria :) YOU CANNOT DO BETTER THEN THAT!! Sounds like latest slasher flick from Hollywood. I think US and Russians are in a cool weapon name race, and Russians are winning. American military has an unhealthy and pathological obsession with acronyms.

 

How come noone ever made a plug-in for extra theater for LOMAC? IMHO, LOMAC has the best graphics engine in the consumer flight sim market. It would make an excellent base for additional theaters and aircraft. Like MS FS2004 and MS Combat FS, where you got all these small developers making aircraft and terrain plug-ins. I'd kill for super realistic HarrierII/GR7/GR9 sim with LOMAC graphics engine!!!! Theres one for FS2004, but its flight only, no combat or weapons employment. Personnally I find that realistic switchology and cockpit procedures add to enjoyment of the flight sim. I want more of it in LOMAC. Thats one of the things I love about F4:AF, though I think its visuals are dates (i.e. kind of lousy). Its not a 'fun' as LOMAC, but its a good cockpit trainer for Block 50/52 F-16.

I am prior service (US Army artillery officcer). I recall the reps from LockheedMartin breifing us on real life tactical simulator development. He said that function of simulator is not to simulate reality 100%, but to train. He said that simulators are millions of lines of coded compromises. Just like a combat aircraft is a multitude of compromises flying in close formation. :)

[Woodstock]

re: chute

Make shure your joystick button or keyboard command generates only once the "deploy chute" command.

It´s a toggle, first press opens chute, second press releases chute from aircraft.

Maybe you generate the command multiple times, in that case you will lose your chute right upon opening.

 

re: wheelbrakes

They are significantly less effective than those on the other aircraft without AFM.

Initially you barely notice them having any effect upon deceleration, anyway they are working. Just hold them engaged and you will slow down... slowly.

 

re: plug-ins, add-ons

You´re not the only one who would kill for new theatres and aircraft or whatever.

There are none because there´s no SDK or add-on permitting architecture. The developers and Ubi are not willing to share or open anything.

 

I just wish that one day the source code becomes public one way or the other like it did for good old Falcon4. That single event kept the sim alive and improving for many years. Did anyone at Ubi and ED ever read the "Third party add-on agreement" for Falcon4: Allied Force?

- Sounds like the way to a brighter future to me!

[ARM505]

He's right about the night thing, and yes, I fly quite often at night! Just did a night flight last night btw. Lock On is waaaay too light at night (a failing of many other sims as well.) Normally you can only see lights. It takes quite a bright moon to see any horizon whatsoever, and night can easily end up being conditions fit only for instrument flight rated pilots.

[Guest ruggbutt]

It's pitch black for me at night. I calibrated my monitor and nights look like they should.

[504 Wolverine]

Please don't tell me that Russian aircrews fighting in Chechnya are calling it Frogfoot. NATO codes are sometimes south of being insulting or just plain stupid.

 

In service with VVS Su-25 received a nickname "Gratch" (The Rook). This comes from the birds ability to get the food out of hard to reach spots, which is very similar to plane's ability to destroy the hardened targets in hard to reach locations in the mountains.

The VVS staff called Su-25 "Konyok-Gorbunok" which is a fictional animal from one of the fairtales by Bazhenov. This character is more like a pony or some sort of a miniature horse, which looks ugly and small, but can outperform the bigger (and faster) stablemates.

The Soviet infantry called Su-25 "Rascheska" (The Comb) because loaded Su-25 with its ten pylons occupied with the payload, resembled the comb if viewed from below.

[Caretaker]

re: plug-ins, add-ons

You´re not the only one who would kill for new theatres and aircraft or whatever.

There are none because there´s no SDK or add-on permitting architecture. The developers and Ubi are not willing to share or open anything.

 

I just wish that one day the source code becomes public one way or the other like it did for good old Falcon4. That single event kept the sim alive and improving for many years. Did anyone at Ubi and ED ever read the "Third party add-on agreement" for Falcon4: Allied Force?

- Sounds like the way to a brighter future to me!

 

Hmm many people in the Falcon community see this addon policy as the opposite: more like a closedown of independent 3rd party development. In the end it's not really different to what ED are already doing with some 3D models (you send them in, and ED will try to incorporate them into the official release versions). Some weapons have already found their way into the sim, and I'm curious to see what will happen with the various plane models we've already seen.

 

Overall I agree that Lock On could use the injection of more 3rd party work, there's just too much talent out there as proven with other sims. New 3D models and especially new maps/theatres are time-consuming tasks that shouldn't really touch the inner workings of the code (well in some parts that still seems to be the case unfortunately ;)) and would ideally be done by independent developers.

 

But still, don't forget that even with the source code available, people never really produced new avionics or physics models for Falcon4. Had Microprose continued the development as planned, chances are we'd have gotten various "true" addon planes already. The release of the source code was a good thing to happen, but only after the dev team had already abandoned it. I hope that won't ever be necessary for Lock On :)

[Guest ruggbutt]

Coming from a developers point of view, let me tell you how we view addons for our mod Obsidian Edge. It's a mod for FarCry with 20 new maps, weapons, and tons of other features.

 

We're seeing people making maps for it, but the majority of them suck ass. I appreciate that people are learning the editor, but the maps are just short of amateur. We've implemented an automatic map d/l feature that allows the client to download the maps from a website, instead of the server which would choke the bandwith. We have complete control over the map download feature, there's a master file on our webserver that the game connects to and send the download info.

 

This way we have control over content thats being used with the mod. We've fixed all of the multiplayer errors that existed in FarCry, so our mod plays better than the original. We've helped Crytek with their patches (codewise) and the mod has been reviewed in several gamer magazines. In closing, we have the right to limit what's being done with our copyrighted software. We don't want some jackleg to come in with a halfassed product and attach it to our name. In fact, in the terms of service you agree to leave the code alone, and not to modify nor use any of it w/out permission.

 

ED has the right to perform quality control on their product. Everyone is comparing LOMAC to F4, which is utterly stupid. F4's code was stolen. Multiple instances of lame flight model code were introduced and the community was split cuz Mod A fanbois took a dislike to Mod B fanbois. Because they preferred their mod. I sat and watched all of that happen over the years and the stereotype that the F4 people sit on their high horse and are better than everyone else has stemmed from these ignorant battles.

 

If ED manages all their addons, and patches then I know I can connect to a server and not get booted cuz I don't have the "I'm a wanna be pilot expanded and better than you radar modeling" addon. The last thing we need is the chaos that ensued from the armchair quarterback community. Let those that are knowledgeable help out ED, and let ED do their own research. So far their products kick ass. I'd prefer to see it remain that way.