The Future of online play?

[VH-Rock]

As some of you will know, over recent months, myself and a few friends formed the Virtual Aerobatics website, server and Teamspeak. We've been having a blast, but as DCS increases in popularity, we are becoming increasingly worried about a few things... At the moment, missions for online play have to be pre built with specific Aircraft and paintschemes chosen, prior to online use. Whilst this is not a problem for the moment, it is certainly going to become a more frequent problem as more and more content is added to DCS...

 

We like to enable people to fly whatever aircraft they like in our servers, but do this, we currently have 120 aircraft on 3 airbases - and that is just with the current plane set! So, surely you can see, as more and more 3rd party modules are released over the next few years, if the current system were to survive, many people will not be able fly what they want... Our problem is that our server needs to be dynamic, but that is impossible in a fixed environment. At times we will have 6 Su-27s in formation and no A-10s being used. Other times, there will be more people wanting to fly the A-10 than there are available aircraft...

 

This situation is very, very limiting for us and it is only going to get worse as more content is released. We moved over from Il-2 and I'm wondering if it would be possible to implement a similar system where a player can join, choose his airfield, aircraft and skin...

 

 

Thoughts?

[arteedecco]

+10 :thumbup:

 

I don't know why I haven't though to post something like this before. I come from Pacific Fighters and eventually Il-2 as well.

 

You address one of the more annoying limitations of the ME. It seems to me there is no reason you couldn't tie a generic aircraft to a parking spot on an airfield (AND PLEASE add numeric parking spot labels in the ME).

 

You should also be able to generally outline the mission route, operational areas, timing, assets, etc. without having to tie it to a specific aircraft.

 

And in the briefing it would be great if there were a way to generate mission briefings and intel pics, etc. without having to do it outside the ME in MS Paint, for example. You should be able to markup an F10 view that pilots can review during briefing.

 

Anyhow... great suggestion.

[Pman]

Just to backup Rock here, We have discussed the situation and without some kind of change to the way aircraft are spawned in maps it will become very crowded very quickly.

 

There must be a way to impliment this with an update to DCS:W where a database of available aircraft is searched when a player wants to spawn, the database would have to be created with the mission I guess so that the creator could exclude aircraft types as needed.

 

Or as in our case they could just leave it open and players can pick whatever they need.

 

But within about a year or so we will have at least another 5-6 aircraft that will need to be accommodated for which with this current system will be problematic.

 

This is of course assuming that the issue Ells spotted of people needing the module to be installed to join a game is resolved, otherwise it may create a split between those with mod XYZ and those without it.

[arteedecco]

There must be a way to impliment this with an update to DCS:W where a database of available aircraft is searched when a player wants to spawn, the database would have to be created with the mission I guess so that the creator could exclude aircraft types as needed.

 

Or as in our case they could just leave it open and players can pick whatever they need.

 

Easy... no db required. Missions (among other things) are actually just text lists describing all the configurations you setup in the ME. The generated mission could simply list available aircraft for each slot. The game just makes the drop-down (or whatever selection method) based on the list for each slot.

 

The game will check if the client has the associated module to see if they can use all of the aircraft made available for that slot.

[Pman]

Easy... no db required. Missions (among other things) are actually just text lists describing all the configurations you setup in the ME. The generated mission could simply list available aircraft for each slot. The game just makes the drop-down (or whatever selection method) based on the list for each slot.

 

The game will check if the client has the associated module to see if they can use all of the aircraft made available for that slot.

 

If it was that easy (even with my level of LUA coding) then im surprised it hasnt been done before! :helpsmilie:

[sorcer3r]

Maye ED will implement it someday. (could be done via supply system)

[arteedecco]

Heh! "easy" means... the logical solution *seems* easy. I'm 100% positive it's a time/cost/value decision they've made along the line and that revising game logic to address this is not "easy".

 

But what I was getting at is the solution appears to be somewhat simpler than adding a new db and checking against it essentially... but I don't write code for ED! :)

 

At any rate... I actually think the hardest part for them to figure out will be the mission waypoints, since it is calculating timing, groundspeed, etc and then plugging that into the mission computer for the aircraft, which you see when you fly. Not too big of a deal for the FC simple aircraft, but a little more problematic (perhaps) for the A-10C and upcoming DCS finely modeled aircraft.

 

Anyway... certainly seems doable and not too big of a hurdle to accomplish. Would add a lot to gameplay if you could do it like Il-2... select aircraft and skin... even a custom skin, when joining.

 

Love it.

[Pman]

Heh! "easy" means... the logical solution *seems* easy. I'm 100% positive it's a time/cost/value decision they've made along the line and that revising game logic to address this is not "easy".

 

But what I was getting at is the solution appears to be somewhat simpler than adding a new db and checking against it essentially... but I don't write code for ED! :)

 

At any rate... I actually think the hardest part for them to figure out will be the mission waypoints, since it is calculating timing, groundspeed, etc and then plugging that into the mission computer for the aircraft, which you see when you fly. Not too big of a deal for the FC simple aircraft, but a little more problematic (perhaps) for the A-10C and upcoming DCS finely modeled aircraft.

 

Anyway... certainly seems doable and not too big of a hurdle to accomplish. Would add a lot to gameplay if you could do it like Il-2... select aircraft and skin... even a custom skin, when joining.

 

Love it.

 

Custom skins could be an issue as the skins for DCS can be quite large >50mb in some cases so it would put a massive strain on server load

[VH-Rock]

Custom skins could be an issue as the skins for DCS can be quite large >50mb in some cases so it would put a massive strain on server load

 

Not Necessarily. If you have a drop down list that just looks to the users skins directory and populates from there?

[arteedecco]

Custom skins could be an issue as the skins for DCS can be quite large >50mb in some cases so it would put a massive strain on server load

Yeah... good point. Yarg! The price of beauty!

 

Not Necessarily. If you have a drop down list that just looks to the users skins directory and populates from there?

Not a bad solution... at least you get to see your custom skins, though the others would not see them. Good enough IMO.

[Pman]

Not Necessarily. If you have a drop down list that just looks to the users skins directory and populates from there?

 

I would have thought that was do able similar to the ME lookup when generating aircraft

[VH-Rock]

Not a bad solution... at least you get to see your custom skins, though the others would not see them. Good enough IMO.

 

 

I don't see how that list would change the current situation at all, really. We've got missions on our server with skins selected. We do not have the skins uploaded to the server machine. If a user joins and has the skin installed, other clients can see that skin if they have it.

 

How would allowing the user to change skin mess that up? As long as both clients have the same skin, it should be possible to see it. Maybe the server could recognise the description.lua and not need to transfer for textures themselves.

[arteedecco]

I don't see how that list would change the current situation at all, really. We've got missions on our server with skins selected. We do not have the skins uploaded to the server machine. If a user joins and has the skin installed, other clients can see that skin if they have it.

 

How would allowing the user to change skin mess that up? As long as both clients have the same skin, it should be possible to see it. Maybe the server could recognise the description.lua and not need to transfer for textures themselves.

 

No, not saying it would mess it up. In Il-2 your skin was uploaded and everyone connected got it.

 

I was simply saying what you were... IF client already has same skin then they see it, otherwise they see what??? I guess a generic skin when you fly past them WVR?

[NineLine]

No, not saying it would mess it up. In Il-2 your skin was uploaded and everyone connected got it.

 

I was simply saying what you were... IF client already has same skin then they see it, otherwise they see what??? I guess a generic skin when you fly past them WVR?

 

 

Thats the way it is now, a generic skin is loaded if you dont have the skin the server as assigned.

[sslechta]

Thats the way it is now, a generic skin is loaded if you dont have the skin the server as assigned.

 

That's what I've noticed... usually a bright orange color when I've seen it.

[NineLine]

That's what I've noticed... usually a bright orange color when I've seen it.

 

 

Hmm The orange is usually for a missing texture, usually when its just not having the skin at all it defaults to a different paint job.

[VH-Rock]

Yep, I just find it strange how a system like this has never been implemented before as it would give the community much more freedom online. I really don't want to have to rotate missions to allow every aircraft to be flown and we really can't use every air base on the map as our server is supposed to get people flying together...

[NineLine]

Yep, I just find it strange how a system like this has never been implemented before as it would give the community much more freedom online. I really don't want to have to rotate missions to allow every aircraft to be flown and we really can't use every air base on the map as our server is supposed to get people flying together...

 

 

I can see how needs have changed, specially, as you have said, with the addition of new aircraft. I know they have added some more dynamic features, perhaps dynamic client plane spawns will come. I know they dont make a lot of sense for combat missions (although the choice of ground attack aircraft for a ground attack mission might be nice, etc), atleast right now... but for your needs I can see how that would be beneficial.

[arteedecco]

There should at least be a choice, like in Il-2, on which a/c to choose. Or a feature similar to which external views are available where you have a ratcheting feature for each aircraft spawn.

 

So for each aircraft spawn as the mission designer, in the ME you can select... "allow any aircraft", "allow only CAS aircraft", or "allow only X, Y, Z aircraft", etc.

 

Doesn't matter if it "doesn't make a lot of sense" in all cases... let the users have the flexibility. A lot of times it is great to build a sandbox type mission like the Dynamically Generated ones and you may want to change a/c depending upon what you want to do.

[VH-Rock]

I can see how needs have changed, specially, as you have said, with the addition of new aircraft. I know they have added some more dynamic features, perhaps dynamic client plane spawns will come. I know they dont make a lot of sense for combat missions (although the choice of ground attack aircraft for a ground attack mission might be nice, etc), atleast right now... but for your needs I can see how that would be beneficial.

 

Indeed, but it is not just for our needs, it would also be beneficial in generic dogfight servers. The current set up is only useful if you have a predetermined mission in mind and know exactly what you need. It would be nice to have a Red Vs Blue map where I can in, select any aircraft and go fight against any other aircraft. At the minute, going in and saying "I want to fly a Mig 29. Oh, wait, They're all taken. I'll have to fly a Sukhoi instead..."

 

That way, the situation is ever changing and people aren't stuck within certain parameters if they don't want to be.

 

Ofcourse, I admit the current system is fine if you know exactly how many aircraft of each kind you want for one mission and the ability to select that should remain. But it is not nearly dynamic enough for certain situations.

[NineLine]

Indeed, but it is not just for our needs, it would also be beneficial in generic dogfight servers. The current set up is only useful if you have a predetermined mission in mind and know exactly what you need. It would be nice to have a Red Vs Blue map where I can in, select any aircraft and go fight against any other aircraft. At the minute, going in and saying "I want to fly a Mig 29. Oh, wait, They're all taken. I'll have to fly a Sukhoi instead..."

 

That way, the situation is ever changing and people aren't stuck within certain parameters if they don't want to be.

 

Ofcourse, I admit the current system is fine if you know exactly how many aircraft of each kind you want for one mission and the ability to select that should remain. But it is not nearly dynamic enough for certain situations.

 

I totally get it, the more options we get, the harder it is to make a mission that appeals to everyone. The Dynamic Spawn is a neat idea, I hope something out figured out, I dont see skin transfer as being all that viable, but surely a variable plane selection could be. I still say it doesnt make sense in every situation, but there are a number of situations that it would.

 

It wouldnt surprise me to see this option become reality some point down the road with what seems to be evolving now.

[Pman]

rather predictably I agree with Rock.

 

I think its use goes beyond our desire for it. If you have a generic CAS mission in say 12 months time there may be 7 different aircraft that we can use on such a mission. As Rock suggested in a PvP server its benefit would be to simply say F15's vs Su27's then swap to Migs Vs Typhoons without having to have a different map for each and every occasion

[Pman]

I totally get it, the more options we get, the harder it is to make a mission that appeals to everyone. The Dynamic Spawn is a neat idea, I hope something out figured out, I dont see skin transfer as being all that viable, but surely a variable plane selection could be. I still say it doesnt make sense in every situation, but there are a number of situations that it would.

 

It wouldnt surprise me to see this option become reality some point down the road with what seems to be evolving now.

 

+1

 

I agree about the skin transfer, but that would only have to work the same way as it does now, if you have it you see it, if you dont then you dont

[GGTharos]

Sounds like I should log this as a feature ... :)

 

This situation is very, very limiting for us and it is only going to get worse as more content is released. We moved over from Il-2 and I'm wondering if it would be possible to implement a similar system where a player can join, choose his airfield, aircraft and skin...

 

 

Thoughts?

[NineLine]

Sounds like I should log this as a feature ... :)

 

Wonder if it could be tied into the resource management somehow, I mean if you click on an airfield and it has 100 of each aircraft type, why not be able to select one of those... and with that same system you could restrict a user from other aircraft.... hmmmm