Training videos using vastly different flight model?

[Stacker]

Don't get me wrong, I really REALLY like this module and I have no regrets buying it. However, I'm convinced that the flight model we see on those training videos is vastly different from the one we have in our hands today.

 

For me what we have at the moment in this beta just seems overly twitchy/sensitive. The FM we see on the videos seems a lot smoother and easier. I'm curious what other people think - is it purely down to 'skill' of those guys producing the video or has there been some significant tweaks to that model since those videos were cut. For example, if I set my collective/cyclic at virtually the same points that I see in those videos - I get nowhere near the effect that we see.

 

It's not a moan - just an observation.

 

Looking forward to many hours of flight with this!

[mmaruda]

It's skill and a good stick. Keep practising, learn to anticipate the chopper's fancies and you'll be good. It took me 3 days of hard flying, but I'm getting better. Landings are no longer a problem, hovering is no longer a problem most of the time and my ego has just grown to over 9000. :)

 

As for setting the collective or stick in the same place as the video, it's not the point to know where your control should be, you need to feel the machine, anticipate it's movements, be precise and focused. Also, each time you fly the conditions differ - weight can differ, wind can differ, air density can differ (not sure if that's simulated). What you should watch is instruments and not the red controls box.

[molleh]

It takes lots of practice and good hardware (i.e. a quality joystick with a light spring and as much throw/travel as possible, or even better a joystick with an extension.)

 

I recently upgraded to a CH Fighterstick, which has a good bit of throw compared to most of the cheaper joysticks out there, and I found it MUCH easier for precise maneuvering.

 

After a couple hours of practice I've gotten quite good with the Huey. :) You'll get there.

[The_Pharoah]

would be nice to hear from the devs themselves confirming this is the case. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they devs have better joysticks and have much more practice, but come on...I can barely keep the thing level and I've flown LOTS of helis in FSX which operate under the same sort of dynamics more or less (my opinion that is and could be wrong). Yes I understand all about how to fly it and counter balancing, anticipating, etc however my controls are wayyy too sensitive. I've watched lots of huey videos (RL) and I don't see the same sort of responsiveness like in DCS - I see the pilots making minute corrections esp at hovering but no where near the inputs required from DCS.

 

Again this is just my experience vs what I've seen.

 

If the devs do confirm its the exact same FM with no tweaking, I'll gladly shut my mouth and go back to practising! :)

[Weta43]

Don't get me wrong, I really REALLY like this module and I have no regrets buying it. However, I'm convinced that the flight model we see on those training videos is vastly different from the one we have in our hands today.

 

For me what we have at the moment in this beta just seems overly twitchy/sensitive. The FM we see on the videos seems a lot smoother and easier. I'm curious what other people think - is it purely down to 'skill' of those guys producing the video or has there been some significant tweaks to that model since those videos were cut. For example, if I set my collective/cyclic at virtually the same points that I see in those videos - I get nowhere near the effect that we see.

 

It's not a moan - just an observation.

 

Looking forward to many hours of flight with this!

 

They were not made with a more stable flight model - it is purely down to skill of those guys producing the video :)

Edited May 3, 2013 by Weta43

[xcom]

I had the same problems at start with the controls.

The thing that help me is to modify the controls for the X, Y and the Collective (Slider).

I'm using Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 and with no FFB enabled ,Theres a bug, if the FFB is enabled then I lose like 20 FPS, so it's off for now, I got no center, Because this stick has a very small slider for the collective, It's very sensetive.

 

Here are my setup for the controls

 

 

{combos = {{key = "JOY_SLIDER1", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = true, curvature = {0.08, 0.28, 0.39, 0.46, 0.51, 0.54, 0.57, 0.61, 0.67, 0.81, 0.97}}}, }, action = iCommandPlaneCollective, name = "Flight Control Collective"},
{combos = {{key = "JOY_Y", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {0.25}}}, }, action = iCommandPlanePitch, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Pitch"},
{combos = {{key = "JOY_X", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {0.25}}}, }, action = iCommandPlaneRoll, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Roll"},
{combos = {{key = "JOY_RZ", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {0.23}}}, }, action = iCommandPlaneRudder, name = "Flight Control Rudder"},

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

Xcom

[EvilBivol-1]

The training videos were made with a standard CH fighterstick. However the input profiles were set up for smoother control at the price of control authority (high curves and somewhat reduced saturation). At the same time, though, back when the videos were made (some months ago...) the FM was substantially LESS stable than it is now. With today's FM, you should be able to replicate those videos fairly well even with linear controls, just takes some time and practice.

[The_Pharoah]

They were not made with a more stable flight model - it is purely down to skill of those guys producing the video :)

 

Thank you kind sir, I shall now eat my words (nom nom) and go practice hovering just like they did back in the day....hovering with one point of reference and trying to keep it stable. :thumbup:

[Stacker]

The training videos were made with a standard CH fighterstick. However the input profiles were set up for smoother control at the price of control authority (high curves and somewhat reduced saturation). At the same time, though, back when the videos were made (some months ago...) the FM was substantially LESS stable than it is now. With today's FM, you should be able to replicate those videos fairly well even with linear controls, just takes some time and practice.

 

Ok, thanks for the confirmation. Will keep at it.

[Wichid]

I have added 34 curves to pitch and roll and 15 curve to yaw. My first flight video had quite a bit of oscillation even though I was inputing the smallest input I possibly could. This seems to be solved for me now. I use the HOTAS warthog.

[Stacker]

Ok, so I'll eat my own words. After some more practice I managed to pull off some kind of running landing... (too fast in and a bit wobbly but I get the job done). Now to get it smoother and under more control... :joystick:

 

Really loving this sim guys!

 

http://youtu.be/yqpa-XJvEQ4

[aaron886]

Use that curve, but don't use too much. I recommend no more than 30. (For any use!)

[71st_Mastiff]

ch fighterstick here also and i set a curve of 5% and havent had any issue. much better response and im not all over the place any longer.

[WildBillKelsoe]

The training videos were made with a standard CH fighterstick. However the input profiles were set up for smoother control at the price of control authority (high curves and somewhat reduced saturation). At the same time, though, back when the videos were made (some months ago...) the FM was substantially LESS stable than it is now. With today's FM, you should be able to replicate those videos fairly well even with linear controls, just takes some time and practice.

 

If that's the case, I own a CH triplet. Could you give me the curves you are using to fly her? I know there is a curvature around the landing throttle setting, but I don't know what it is! It is very frustrating after dropping off the redhead to slam into ground.

[Luzifer]

I have reduced curves a lot (10 at most) for the cyclic and even less for the pedals. Curvature makes control around trim more precise but that much worse far away from trim. And in transitions of flight regimes, until you have the time to trim, you need the control authority as well as precision far off trim.

 

Once you have figured how to prevent pendulum oscillations in hover (fixating a distant ground feature is a good practice) then hovering in ground effect is actually relatively easy. Ground effect becomes stronger closer to the ground, so hover altitude is stable with a given collective setting. Taxiing around the whole airfield is a breeze then without even touching the collective.

 

So I got that down within a few hours of practice. Take-Off with transition to forward flight at speed is okay. Landing at the spot I'm aiming at with transition to hover? Oh, I definitely have to still work at that. Half the time I end up somewhere way off. The other half I driver the Huey into the ground. Ahem.

 

So yeah, just practice is all you need, and not a tamed flight model.