Sharpe_95 Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Hi there, I have been doing some experimentation with Russian SAM's and have noticed the SA15 Tor is operating well outside its parameters. The stated max flight altitude for a Tor Missile (9M330) is 6000m or 20k'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system and for all you wiki snobs out there:smilewink:, Janes IHS repeats these parameters (for those with access you can look it up). I have found that the TOR is consistently firing at F15's at 25k' and the missile chasing is F15's to above 40k'- all of which is well outside its manufacturers stated capability. Parameters: SA15 in open on coast at sea level, AI set to expert. 1) F15 @ 25k flying nose on to Tor. Missile launches, F15 does 55degree climb to 40k (hit and killed) 2) F15 @25k flying nose on to Tor. Missile launches, F15 does 55degree climb to 35k (hit and killed) 3) F15 at 40k flying nose on to Tor. No track, no launch. 4) F15 at 35k+flying nose on to Tor. No track, no launch. 5) F15 above 30k and below 35k flying nose on to Tor. Track launch and kill. MWS delayed to point that you get about a second from MWS to missile hit. The above parameters are repeatable. I assume this is a bug as: a) The Tor system and missile is outperforming its stated capabilities b) How can a missile (from a radio command guided platform) hit a target above the point the tracking system cant track the aircraft (35k+). c) Parenthetical: The MWS seems a bit shaky above 30k (although I don't know enough about the MWS to be able to say if this is deliberate or not). -Sharpe Edited June 2, 2013 by Sharpe_95
159th_Viper Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I assume this is a bug as.... No bug. Wiki and Janes are wrong/have the incorrect information. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
beczl Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 No bug. Wiki and Janes are wrong/have the incorrect information. Yes as many (almost all) cases.
Sharpe_95 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) No bug. Wiki and Janes are wrong/have the incorrect information. Fair enough - I don't suppose you can provide the following data for the SAM's that are modelled in game (or link me where I can go for the accurate data) so we have clarity on the 'correct' info?: 1 - Max range 2 - Min range 3 - Max alt 4 - Min alt 5 - Number of targets the tracking system can track 6 - Number of objects the missile can engage 7 - The number of missile the system can launch 8 - Point defence capable or not (eg can engage PGM's) This would be really helpful for threat cards and as all the open and semi-open sources I have access to (and the military/defence experts I have access to) have the wrong information it would be great to see the correct parameters that are being used in the sim :) - otherwise it makes sorting out threat cards a nightmare. -Sharpe Edited June 2, 2013 by Sharpe_95
159th_Viper Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Said info *may* be classified but I'll see what/how much I can dig up and let you know. I do recall it being upwards of 40000 feet for the Tor though. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Sharpe_95 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 Said info *may* be classified but I'll see what/how much I can dig up and let you know. I do recall it being upwards of 40000 feet for the Tor though. Hi Viper that's kind of you - please seem my PM (inbound soon). -Sharpe
MaverickF22 Posted July 26, 2013 Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) In fact for the TOR, at least as what i've tested by flying with the A-10C straight over it, the minimum altitude needed in order to not get shot could be even 27000+AGL (as distance between TOR and it's target), i was at 28000 so i couldn't tell, yet it would "seem" that even 27000 feet could be a quite high altitude for a 9M331 missile, but who knows..., if ED has the correct missile's burn times, missile's aerodynamic data (especially drag) and other technical data..., an accurate simulation should prove how far the missile can reach/go, before opinions can arrive, becase i've also listened (first) to what the web has to say about these more or less allowed information! Here's a thread dealing a similar subject: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=106861 Cheers, good day! Edited July 26, 2013 by MaverickF22 Mistakes, obviously, show us what needs improving. Without mistakes, how would we know what we had to work on! Making DCS a better place for realism. Let it be, ED!
Rongor Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 Why does the TLAR "wake up" at 14 NM range and errect its target acquisition radar? How does it know that a target enters the effective radar range of the SA-15?
maturin Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 14nm is within visual range, no? All AI in DCS world knows where every unit on the map is, pretty much all the time.
comwarrior Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 Which means you can't sneak up on units like you could in real life...
Rongor Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 I dont really care for the Tor crew watching the sky and then seeing tiny spot "guys, hurry, bring up the radar thingy!" To be honest, I watched the TLAR in my TGP when closing in. There was no crew outside the vehicle looking into the clouds. ALso I doubt you could visually notice a plane 26 km away. So I would simply prefer having the radar antenna turning by default.
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