P-51 AI Wingman

[Merlin-27]

Am I missing some important part in the ME or are AI wingmen pretty much useless right now? I've tried tweaking a few variables but nothing seems to help much. They will stay in the general vicinity for the most part but I've never seen one act like an actual wingman. I realize it may be a slightly more complex AI routine but it seems do-able. Maybe based on fairly tight formation holding where the AI could calculate threats focused on the leader relative to formation spacing limitations? I think the priority would be sticking to the leader like glue, but a few shots fired at a hungry pursuer would be nice and would surely help immersion. Maybe even an audible warning to liven things up?

 

I have big dreams. :sorcerer:

[NineLine]

I am not sure what level the AI wingmen are at right now, might be worth me reporting, I am sure that DCS wasnt really set up for WWII wingmen functions as it dealt more with modern aircraft (not that their modern counterparts fair much better at times :) )

 

That is not to say I havent seen flashes of goodness, like having a 190 on me and another P-51 on the 190... but I agree that perhaps they are not well versed in the rules of WWII wingmanness :)

 

Just because I havent, have you tried using the radio commands for your wingman in game?

 

Am I missing some important part in the ME or are AI wingmen pretty much useless right now? I've tried tweaking a few variables but nothing seems to help much. They will stay in the general vicinity for the most part but I've never seen one act like an actual wingman. I realize it may be a slightly more complex AI routine but it seems do-able. Maybe based on fairly tight formation holding where the AI could calculate threats focused on the leader relative to formation spacing limitations? I think the priority would be sticking to the leader like glue, but a few shots fired at a hungry pursuer would be nice and would surely help immersion. Maybe even an audible warning to liven things up?

 

I have big dreams. :sorcerer:

[Merlin-27]

I am not sure what level the AI wingmen are at right now, might be worth me reporting, I am sure that DCS wasnt really set up for WWII wingmen functions as it dealt more with modern aircraft (not that their modern counterparts fair much better at times :) )

 

That is not to say I havent seen flashes of goodness, like having a 190 on me and another P-51 on the 190... but I agree that perhaps they are not well versed in the rules of WWII wingmanness :)

 

Just because I havent, have you tried using the radio commands for your wingman in game?

 

Yessir. I understand the tactics are quite different between the DCS aircraft types... so it wasn't a knock. Just maybe a hint or suggestion. I did try the radio commands and I am able to turn the wingman loose to hunt bandits and sometimes get him to rejoin but I guess what I'm hoping for is more of the "stay close and cover my tail" role. I don't think I've ever witnessed a benefit from having an AI wingman (flying the P-51) unless I ran out of ammo and had him finish off someone on command. The other interesting part is that the AI have some special understanding were the enemy AI will go out of its way to kill me first then other AI. Makes entering a large swirling dogfight pretty much certain death as they are all lined up waiting for a chance to play "kill the human." :megalol:

 

Just my observations.

[NineLine]

Nope, didnt think it was a knock, its all good points. I might test out a few different scenarios and see how the AI reacts, even just trying to maintain a reasonable combat spread.

 

I believe someone stated before that the AI will always target you before your AI counterpart, I am not sure if that's is true or not. Not sure if that is by design or if its just another issue with the AI.

 

It would be nice to have commands specific to aircraft, but I dont know how hard it would be to make an AI wingman perform even the most basic maneuvers. You know, even something as basic as a bracket attack...

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Yessir. I understand the tactics are quite different between the DCS aircraft types... so it wasn't a knock. Just maybe a hint or suggestion. I did try the radio commands and I am able to turn the wingman loose to hunt bandits and sometimes get him to rejoin but I guess what I'm hoping for is more of the "stay close and cover my tail" role. I don't think I've ever witnessed a benefit from having an AI wingman (flying the P-51) unless I ran out of ammo and had him finish off someone on command. The other interesting part is that the AI have some special understanding were the enemy AI will go out of its way to kill me first then other AI. Makes entering a large swirling dogfight pretty much certain death as they are all lined up waiting for a chance to play "kill the human." :megalol:

 

Just my observations.

 

 

yes i think its just the way you describe it Merlin!

also the wingmen of the enemy side are pretty much useless...for example if you set up a flight of 4 enemy P51s or Fw190, one will start to engage, while the others will most of the time make wide circles around you...they are no threat, until you kill the first one...then the second will become "active" and engage...

thats why i set up my missions always the way, that flight groups are always single planes...so a group of four planes are actually four groups, each of one plane..

this way they seem to be more aggressive.

[Merlin-27]

Nope, didnt think it was a knock, its all good points. I might test out a few different scenarios and see how the AI reacts, even just trying to maintain a reasonable combat spread.

 

I believe someone stated before that the AI will always target you before your AI counterpart, I am not sure if that's is true or not. Not sure if that is by design or if its just another issue with the AI.

 

It would be nice to have commands specific to aircraft, but I dont know how hard it would be to make an AI wingman perform even the most basic maneuvers. You know, even something as basic as a bracket attack...

 

Awesome. It's not a huge problem but I think will go a long way in terms of giving the WW2 stuff the right feel. Also maybe a level of unpredictability could be factored in somehow. All wingmen are not created equal.

[NineLine]

Of course, and that is the issue right, all current commands and AI were designed from modern aircraft, it may not always fit with how things were done back in the 40's.

[NineLine]

I should add that if I was the AI I would probably target me before another AI plane as well... makes perfect tactical sense with my lack of abilities :)

[NineLine]

I set up a 2 on 1 mission tonight, me and wingman vs a 190, I set him to right echelon, close. He stayed there, bandit approached I ordered him to engage bandit, he wouldnt engage till he spotted him, which he announced when he did. I commanded him to engage bandit, he engaged and killed 190. The 190 did turn on me, so the AI did go after me, but in this case I was closest to the 190, so it made sense to me.

 

After that I was able to command him to rejoin, then I tried some of the different wingman commands such as break left, etc. He followed all those commands.

 

Really the only issue I saw was some things you think he could figure out on his own, like having to ask him to rejoin after killing the 190, should be a no brainer (no AIer?)

 

The commands are clunky, I would need to set up macros, or that fancy voice recognition I saw someone use, but I think you could control the AI somewhat decent with these basic commands, as for true tactics, I dont know what would be possible there. I will ask around a little.

[Merlin-27]

I set up a 2 on 1 mission tonight, me and wingman vs a 190, I set him to right echelon, close. He stayed there, bandit approached I ordered him to engage bandit, he wouldnt engage till he spotted him, which he announced when he did. I commanded him to engage bandit, he engaged and killed 190. The 190 did turn on me, so the AI did go after me, but in this case I was closest to the 190, so it made sense to me.

 

After that I was able to command him to rejoin, then I tried some of the different wingman commands such as break left, etc. He followed all those commands.

 

Really the only issue I saw was some things you think he could figure out on his own, like having to ask him to rejoin after killing the 190, should be a no brainer (no AIer?)

 

The commands are clunky, I would need to set up macros, or that fancy voice recognition I saw someone use, but I think you could control the AI somewhat decent with these basic commands, as for true tactics, I dont know what would be possible there. I will ask around a little.

 

Thanks for checking it out. No argument with those scenarios. The AI wingman will break off and engage if told to do so. I agree that the commands are clunky but I myself don't have an easy solution for that. Voice recognition would be pretty amazing but are we there yet? I can picture myself screaming... ENGAGE! you dumb son of a b!+#$!!!! :D

 

My main issue was strictly the primary wingman duties... staying close and covering you while you focus on targets. I'd suggest creating a mission where you have multiple bandits in the area on different vectors. Then pick one and give chase. Shortly after an enemy AI should try to move on your six... and promptly litter you with bullets. From my experience your wingman is just sitting back recording it for his next youtube upload.

"Oh wait, you wanted me to engage the guy that was trying to kill you? My bad."

[NineLine]

As far as voice recognition, this is where I saw it, I havent played with it, but might be something to try...

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for checking it out. No argument with those scenarios. The AI wingman will break off and engage if told to do so. I agree that the commands are clunky but I myself don't have an easy solution for that. Voice recognition would be pretty amazing but are we there yet? I can picture myself screaming... ENGAGE! you dumb son of a b!+#$!!!! :D

 

My main issue was strictly the primary wingman duties... staying close and covering you while you focus on targets. I'd suggest creating a mission where you have multiple bandits in the area on different vectors. Then pick one and give chase. Shortly after an enemy AI should try to move on your six... and promptly litter you with bullets. From my experience your wingman is just sitting back recording it for his next youtube upload.

"Oh wait, you wanted me to engage the guy that was trying to kill you? My bad."

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i didnt watch the vid, but i tried VAC(voice activated commands) as a free trial version for one month about two years ago for IL2 1946...this software works amazing, and really adds a lot to immersion.easy to use, and works perfectly.

it reacts really fast, and understands every word you say.at least after you have set up your windows voice recognition "training".

for guys who mainly fly offline, this is definitely worth to consider...

[NineLine]

I'll have to mess with that, I have been meaning too... but usually when I fly its with a real person so I can just yell at them :)

[Merlin-27]

I'll have to mess with that, I have been meaning too... but usually when I fly its with a real person so I can just yell at them :)

 

Same deal, but there would still be some real value in refining it. I will try out that program for sure after seeing that review from you, David. The only thing I don't like, and it's just me being picky, is that after you verbally say the command (For instance from the radio menu) then the sim repeats with it's own sound recording of that same radio call. Is there any way to disable those pilot voice files so you would just hear the response from the recipient?

[NineLine]

Same deal, but there would still be some real value in refining it. I will try out that program for sure after seeing that review from you, David. The only thing I don't like, and it's just me being picky, is that after you verbally say the command (For instance from the radio menu) then the sim repeats with it's own sound recording of that same radio call. Is there any way to disable those pilot voice files so you would just hear the response from the recipient?

 

Only think I could think would be to replace the files with an empty sound file, but that sounds like a lot of work :)