Hawg11 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I notice a bunch of people getting into sims (online) still don't understand corner speed. It would be nice if a "corner speed" tutorial included a virtual instructor who tells you when your plane is at maximum turning effectiveness. Or, at the very least, it would be nice if the player could toggle on/off the raw data (turn rate & radius) from within the cockpit. 1 Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junae Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Nice idea to Ironhand... ;) =FN= Six o'Clock Member of Falcões da Noite Squadron Florianopolis :: Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet_169th Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have been into sims for well over 10 years and I still have problems with this. I for one, would benefit from something like this. Fox has made a bullseye program from the .lua exports. I wonder if a similar tool could be made for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bublik Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have been into sims for well over 10 years and I still have problems with this. I for one, would benefit from something like this. Fox has made a bullseye program from the .lua exports. I wonder if a similar tool could be made for this? Unfortunately, I do not know what the bullseye program is, but I think it is possible to make an indicator of the turn rate and/or full mechanical energy using lua exports. WR=210=Vladimir http://lockon-vpg.nm.ru http://whiteravens.nm.ru http://white-ravens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfire Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel. The only difference is, it didn't show this in real time, it dumped the data to a text file and there's no radius calculations. And! This is only for sustained turn rates, not instantaneous. FBR: fuel burn rate, measured in kg / second IAS, TAS: velocity, measured in km/h Turn Rate: degrees per second Vertspd: the average vertical speed for this calculation FlightTest: Su-27, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 05:00:12 PM 9400 KG fuel, 135 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 110, Flaps: 0 IAS dev TAS Alt VertSpd G Turn Rate Fuel FBR(kg/s) RPM 358 3 394 72 0.3 3.03 [ 14.7 ] 8606 11.1 110 355 2 391 65 0.4 3.03 [ 14.9 ] 8338 10.9 110 357 3 392 53 -1.0 3.06 [ 15.0 ] 8074 11.0 110 354 3 390 54 0.6 3.12 [ 15.4 ] 7551 11.0 110 352 4 387 56 -0.6 3.11 [ 15.5 ] 7293 10.9 110 356 2 392 57 -1.1 3.21 [ 15.8 ] 7040 11.1 110 357 2 392 65 -0.8 3.22 [ 15.9 ] 6787 11.1 110 357 2 392 51 0.8 3.35 [ 16.6 ] 6051 11.1 110 358 1 393 56 0.2 3.38 [ 16.7 ] 5809 11.0 110 354 4 389 69 -1.5 3.44 [ 17.3 ] 5111 11.0 110 355 1 391 43 0.8 3.56 [ 17.8 ] 4649 11.1 110 355 2 390 55 -0.5 3.59 [ 17.9 ] 4429 10.9 110 354 2 389 73 0.3 3.61 [ 18.0 ] 4209 11.0 110 355 3 390 88 0.5 3.64 [ 18.2 ] 3989 11.0 110 358 3 393 95 -0.6 3.70 [ 18.4 ] 3770 10.7 110 357 1 393 81 1.1 3.80 [ 18.8 ] 3562 11.2 110 357 2 393 74 0.7 3.80 [ 19.0 ] 3348 10.7 110 358 1 394 87 0.9 3.86 [ 19.1 ] 3145 11.1 110 355 1 391 116 0.6 3.95 [ 19.7 ] 2532 10.9 110 354 3 391 85 -0.6 4.01 [ 20.3 ] 2138 11.1 110 357 3 393 77 -0.5 4.12 [ 20.6 ] 1941 10.9 110 358 1 393 93 0.5 4.13 [ 20.7 ] 1749 11.1 110 357 2 393 119 0.3 4.15 [ 20.8 ] 1557 10.8 110 352 3 389 108 4.6 4.31 [ 21.8 ] 819 10.9 110 354 3 390 110 2.9 4.36 [ 22.1 ] 639 11.1 110 357 3 394 110 -0.0 4.46 [ 22.4 ] 459 10.9 110 FlightTest: F-15C, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 04:41:27 PM 6103 KG fuel, 109 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 103, Flaps: 0 IAS dev TAS Alt VertSpd G Turn Rate Fuel FBR(kg/s) RPM 463 3 491 121 -1.7 4.06 [ 16.2 ] 5921 8.7 110 461 2 489 121 1.0 4.07 [ 16.4 ] 5729 8.6 110 462 2 489 117 0.8 4.12 [ 16.6 ] 5541 8.5 110 464 2 491 120 -0.4 4.19 [ 16.8 ] 5356 8.6 110 465 7 489 76 0.9 4.24 [ 17.2 ] 4990 8.7 110 471 3 494 79 0.5 4.36 [ 17.4 ] 4809 8.5 110 469 2 491 105 -0.4 4.36 [ 17.5 ] 4631 8.6 110 466 3 490 119 3.9 4.36 [ 17.6 ] 4454 8.6 110 469 3 493 107 -0.2 4.45 [ 17.9 ] 4278 8.7 110 473 4 495 79 -1.6 4.54 [ 18.2 ] 4102 8.5 110 476 3 497 90 -1.4 4.63 [ 18.3 ] 3933 8.8 110 474 6 496 97 -0.8 4.62 [ 18.4 ] 3760 8.6 110 469 8 492 106 3.0 4.66 [ 18.7 ] 3428 8.5 106 468 5 490 118 -2.3 4.77 [ 19.4 ] 2945 8.8 110 472 1 494 115 -2.7 5.04 [ 20.3 ] 2316 8.5 110 471 4 494 145 0.8 5.09 [ 20.3 ] 2165 8.8 110 469 10 491 141 1.5 5.05 [ 20.6 ] 2011 8.6 110 475 1 498 106 0.1 5.32 [ 21.2 ] 1714 8.6 110 475 2 497 123 -0.3 5.34 [ 21.3 ] 1567 8.7 110 475 4 497 149 1.7 5.34 [ 21.4 ] 1421 8.5 110 468 6 492 178 2.3 5.37 [ 21.8 ] 1137 8.5 110 474 9 497 155 -2.9 5.53 [ 22.0 ] 996 8.5 110 474 2 497 147 -0.8 5.67 [ 22.7 ] 720 8.6 110 474 2 496 157 2.4 5.72 [ 22.9 ] 583 8.4 110 So, till we get a DPS/Radius display for Lockon, maybe this will help :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfire Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm not too familiar with windows programming. So, the problem I see here is making a window show up over Lockon, since Lockon likes to stay on top. I saw someone had a mod with a Tool window that worked, forget what his mod was called (something to do with recording a flight then sending it as a track, then it could fly the plane for you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Now try doing it for corner speeds too ... you know, 700kph+ ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IguanaKing Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hmmm...I wonder if this could be something one of the add-on gurus could accomplish. It seems like maybe the sim data could be extracted to a virtual FDR, and then show a graphic representation. Not hugely useful to a ground-pounder like me, but the a2a guys would definitely benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel. Umm... WHAT? :icon_eek: :icon_pray That's AMAZING! How useful would THAT be, when writing the Lock On manual?! We could tell people exactly what are the best turn rates, climb speeds... And not just pulling numbers from websites about the real jets, but actually useful information about how to fly the plane in the sim! How long have you been using that little gem? :) -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet_169th Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I made a script that makes the plane fly in circles, holds a set speed, and calculates different turn rates for different speeds/fuel. The only difference is, it didn't show this in real time, it dumped the data to a text file and there's no radius calculations. And! This is only for sustained turn rates, not instantaneous. FBR: fuel burn rate, measured in kg / second IAS, TAS: velocity, measured in km/h Turn Rate: degrees per second Vertspd: the average vertical speed for this calculation FlightTest: Su-27, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 05:00:12 PM 9400 KG fuel, 135 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 110, Flaps: 0 IAS dev TAS Alt VertSpd G Turn Rate Fuel FBR(kg/s) RPM 358 3 394 72 0.3 3.03 [ 14.7 ] 8606 11.1 110 355 2 391 65 0.4 3.03 [ 14.9 ] 8338 10.9 110 357 3 392 53 -1.0 3.06 [ 15.0 ] 8074 11.0 110 354 3 390 54 0.6 3.12 [ 15.4 ] 7551 11.0 110 352 4 387 56 -0.6 3.11 [ 15.5 ] 7293 10.9 110 356 2 392 57 -1.1 3.21 [ 15.8 ] 7040 11.1 110 357 2 392 65 -0.8 3.22 [ 15.9 ] 6787 11.1 110 357 2 392 51 0.8 3.35 [ 16.6 ] 6051 11.1 110 358 1 393 56 0.2 3.38 [ 16.7 ] 5809 11.0 110 354 4 389 69 -1.5 3.44 [ 17.3 ] 5111 11.0 110 355 1 391 43 0.8 3.56 [ 17.8 ] 4649 11.1 110 355 2 390 55 -0.5 3.59 [ 17.9 ] 4429 10.9 110 354 2 389 73 0.3 3.61 [ 18.0 ] 4209 11.0 110 355 3 390 88 0.5 3.64 [ 18.2 ] 3989 11.0 110 358 3 393 95 -0.6 3.70 [ 18.4 ] 3770 10.7 110 357 1 393 81 1.1 3.80 [ 18.8 ] 3562 11.2 110 357 2 393 74 0.7 3.80 [ 19.0 ] 3348 10.7 110 358 1 394 87 0.9 3.86 [ 19.1 ] 3145 11.1 110 355 1 391 116 0.6 3.95 [ 19.7 ] 2532 10.9 110 354 3 391 85 -0.6 4.01 [ 20.3 ] 2138 11.1 110 357 3 393 77 -0.5 4.12 [ 20.6 ] 1941 10.9 110 358 1 393 93 0.5 4.13 [ 20.7 ] 1749 11.1 110 357 2 393 119 0.3 4.15 [ 20.8 ] 1557 10.8 110 352 3 389 108 4.6 4.31 [ 21.8 ] 819 10.9 110 354 3 390 110 2.9 4.36 [ 22.1 ] 639 11.1 110 357 3 394 110 -0.0 4.46 [ 22.4 ] 459 10.9 110 FlightTest: F-15C, Sat, Oct 15 2005 at 04:41:27 PM 6103 KG fuel, 109 m Alt, vertSpd: 0.0, RPM: 103, Flaps: 0 IAS dev TAS Alt VertSpd G Turn Rate Fuel FBR(kg/s) RPM 463 3 491 121 -1.7 4.06 [ 16.2 ] 5921 8.7 110 461 2 489 121 1.0 4.07 [ 16.4 ] 5729 8.6 110 462 2 489 117 0.8 4.12 [ 16.6 ] 5541 8.5 110 464 2 491 120 -0.4 4.19 [ 16.8 ] 5356 8.6 110 465 7 489 76 0.9 4.24 [ 17.2 ] 4990 8.7 110 471 3 494 79 0.5 4.36 [ 17.4 ] 4809 8.5 110 469 2 491 105 -0.4 4.36 [ 17.5 ] 4631 8.6 110 466 3 490 119 3.9 4.36 [ 17.6 ] 4454 8.6 110 469 3 493 107 -0.2 4.45 [ 17.9 ] 4278 8.7 110 473 4 495 79 -1.6 4.54 [ 18.2 ] 4102 8.5 110 476 3 497 90 -1.4 4.63 [ 18.3 ] 3933 8.8 110 474 6 496 97 -0.8 4.62 [ 18.4 ] 3760 8.6 110 469 8 492 106 3.0 4.66 [ 18.7 ] 3428 8.5 106 468 5 490 118 -2.3 4.77 [ 19.4 ] 2945 8.8 110 472 1 494 115 -2.7 5.04 [ 20.3 ] 2316 8.5 110 471 4 494 145 0.8 5.09 [ 20.3 ] 2165 8.8 110 469 10 491 141 1.5 5.05 [ 20.6 ] 2011 8.6 110 475 1 498 106 0.1 5.32 [ 21.2 ] 1714 8.6 110 475 2 497 123 -0.3 5.34 [ 21.3 ] 1567 8.7 110 475 4 497 149 1.7 5.34 [ 21.4 ] 1421 8.5 110 468 6 492 178 2.3 5.37 [ 21.8 ] 1137 8.5 110 474 9 497 155 -2.9 5.53 [ 22.0 ] 996 8.5 110 474 2 497 147 -0.8 5.67 [ 22.7 ] 720 8.6 110 474 2 496 157 2.4 5.72 [ 22.9 ] 583 8.4 110 So, till we get a DPS/Radius display for Lockon, maybe this will help :) Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfire Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Thank you guys! And SK, about the manual idea, oh yeah definately! In fact a script could be made to try a whole range of tests, and when the plane would run out of fuel, make the pilot eject, recover, do another test. All of this could be done in accelerated time also. I had this script for awhile, but it was just to see if it could be done. So, the code doesn't use very good methods for finding roots, for example, the perfect bank angle for a given speed. It works and keeps a relatively good climb/descent rate, but that's why I threw that climb/descent rate in the tables - to visually check the average climb/dive rates. So, the movements are smooth, but not as smooth as they could be. Referring to Hawg's idea, it would be very useful if someone could do a maneuver and see, in real time, how effective it is. I think this would be useful for everyone, not just newer flyers. Someone who also might have info on a DPS/Radius program is Phil_C6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bublik Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Here is a technology demonstrator I just made. http://www.asnr47.dsl.pipex.com/files/bubl/LOPerformance.zip Extract the zip wherever you want and launch Performance.exe. Do not minimize the tool window, also LockOn should be in window (not fullscreen) mode. It displays in real time turn radius in meters, rate of turn, and total energy as the equivavlent altitude in meters. The radius and rate are not necessarily in horizontal plane. Actually it shows instantaneous radius and angular velocity of the longitudal axis of the aircraft. For example in a vertical maneuver (like loop) it still displays non-zero rate of turn. The indicated turn radius is limited to 5000, as otherwise in straight and level flight it would have to say 'Infinity' or something like that :) WR=210=Vladimir http://lockon-vpg.nm.ru http://whiteravens.nm.ru http://white-ravens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bublik Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm not too familiar with windows programming. So, the problem I see here is making a window show up over Lockon, since Lockon likes to stay on top. I saw someone had a mod with a Tool window that worked, forget what his mod was called (something to do with recording a flight then sending it as a track, then it could fly the plane for you). I guess, you are talking about Phantom Control and Show Controls :) http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=13321&highlight=phantom+control The tool window of Show Controls does not work when LockOn is in fullscreen (you have to uncheck the fullscreen button in LockOn graphics settings). I was planning to use overlay to fix this issue, but did not manage to make it yet. 1 WR=210=Vladimir http://lockon-vpg.nm.ru http://whiteravens.nm.ru http://white-ravens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Here is a technology demonstrator I just made. http://www.asnr47.dsl.pipex.com/files/bubl/LOPerformance.zip Extract the zip wherever you want and launch Performance.exe. Do not minimize the tool window, also LockOn should be in window (not fullscreen) mode. It displays in real time turn radius in meters, rate of turn, and total energy as the equivavlent altitude in meters. The radius and rate are not necessarily in horizontal plane. Actually it shows instantaneous radius and angular velocity of the longitudal axis of the aircraft. For example in a vertical maneuver (like loop) it still displays non-zero rate of turn. The indicated turn radius is limited to 5000, as otherwise in straight and level flight it would have to say 'Infinity' or something like that :) Hi Bublik. Great stuff! Will this work for 1.02? Which folder do the files go in to? I tried guessing and placed the files in various spots to no avail. Also, the .exe has a windows warning after opening that says, "The window does not have scroll bars." Is that normal? Thanks Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Now try doing it for corner speeds too ... you know, 700kph+ ;) Hi, I think the speeds that Jetfire is using are the corner speeds. I believe he has them converted from metric to imperial. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Could be ... this confused me: IAS, TAS: velocity, measured in km/h [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Jetfire, that is some cool stuff. Is it an AI plane flying or your own? If so, could it be scripted for multiple planes? I'm a bit confused on that point. If it is AI, do you realize the Dynamic Campaign potential you have there? I miss flying with you bud. You're one of the best online pilots I ever flew with (if you're the Jetfire I'm thinking of). Hey, I finally got that TrackIR...:-) GG Tharos, Roger that. I just went back and read that. But having flown with Jet, I can't imagine him testing so far out of corner...and I can't imagine getting a turn rate that quick if it were kph. Jetfire, kph? or mph? Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 He's doing it by using the LUA 'import' functions for stick and throttle. He 'reads out' the AOA and speed, and so on, and adjusts the flight profile accordingly ... he has in effect created a special little autopilot. It's something that had been theorized before, JF is the first one to admit implementing it :) You could for example theoretically program a 'fly by wire' system for your jet with various modes using this that would override your input if you were about to blow the AoA for example, etc etc. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 He's doing it by using the LUA 'import' functions for stick and throttle. He 'reads out' the AOA and speed, and so on, and adjusts the flight profile accordingly ... he has in effect created a special little autopilot. It's something that had been theorized before, JF is the first one to admit implementing it :) You could for example theoretically program a 'fly by wire' system for your jet with various modes using this that would override your input if you were about to blow the AoA for example, etc etc. ;) Cool! So, can it be set to have the pilot eject automatically after x number of rounds are pumped into the plane? hehe. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 LOL! Well, that's not so easy. Jetfire created a 'blinking lights' mod, which was actually pretty much a hack specifically because LOMAC does not import keyboard signals of all things. :P [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 LOL! Well, that's not so easy. Jetfire created a 'blinking lights' mod, which was actually pretty much a hack specifically because LOMAC does not import keyboard signals of all things. :P GG, You seem to know your way around the .lua code a bit. Any idea if there's any openings to be able to add AI aircraft via a script, rather than in the mission editor (preferably, "on the fly" during a game)? This would reduce some of the FPS problems most of us experience when we add a lot of AI in the ME. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Unfortuantely no ... 'been asking for that for a while, as well as a few other items ( ...SAM control via LUA .. so I can have brothers add a SMITE button to his ATC console ;) ) Ideally it would be nice to not only enable the addition of vehicles via lua, but also to be able to alter their orders/targets/waypoints on the fly also. As it stands, you can read them, but nothing else. This would also allow for LUA controlled respawns etc. For example, suppose you have a mission with A2G and A2A mixed in, and you want this mission to last say 24 hours. A few good players can wipe the map clean inside an hour or so typically ... and in general all sorts of things can go bad. You can find out which units have been destroyed via LUA typically, and 'respawn' them after they had been destroeyd some time. In fact you could generate several groups of vehicles and pick one to spawn at random, so you might not see always the same target pop up at the same location, etc. This would make good CAS and Interdiction roving missions. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 smite button...hehe Indeed, the possiblities could be virtually endless, if this .lua coding were enabled. (I'm thining audio files each time a ground object spawns. Player gets a call from JSTARS. "Enfield11, CAS request, 3 artillery units east of Kislovodak. Fac reports AAA in the area.") Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yep, that would be pretty cool too, you could certainly do this :) The problem here of course is that you must download the sounds with the mission, which could be an issue in and of itself for online missions. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawg11 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 True. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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