F-15C combat questions

[TAW_Blaze]

All I'm saying is that, Inside 4 miles, good luck trying to evade an AMRAAM. You don't have to hardlock him either. If you are visual, you always have the option of mad dogging him. Using flood mode introduces a number of other issues that could prove detrimental to your survival or combat efficacy.

 

The real question is, though, what is the best weapon for the job? Do you sortie out every time expecting to use flood mode? Or, are you the survival pack rat type of guy who packs away a dozen tricks just because a situation may arise where one of those is useful?

 

When I sortie out in an F-15C, I don't carry any sparrows. The reason being is that they aren't nearly as useful as an AIM-120 for the type of tactics being used. I don't expect to get within visual range of someone. I certainly don't expect to get into visual range of someone without them seeing me. If I get caught in a visual scenario (< 5nm), the AIM-9M works plenty well. Nine times out of ten though, I am only there in the first place because something has gone horribly wrong with the engagement. Having a tactically useless missile only increases the chance that I am in that sort of situation. It is sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Of course, I am not discounting the fun factor of potentially snagging someone with a shot like that. For the times it works right, it is pretty glorious to watch.

 

Frostie just gave you a really good example of why it's useful. I usually carry 6 slammers, a sparrow and a mike. Versatile, while it doesn't limit my slammer count.

 

I'm certainly not expecting these situations to happen everytime I take off. But the instant I don't have a mike onboard I immediately find myself in need of one. Statistically though, 6-7 out of 10 sorties I go home with the mike and sparrow still on the rails.

 

There are plenty of scenarios where having a silent missile will make a dramatic effect even if you have to point at the guy all the way. Most of them are tailchases, around 4-6 miles, especially when he thinks he's finally safe and quits burnin', you can sneak up a little closer and get him, if you try that with a slammer he's just gonna casually outrun it in almost every case, unless you were literally on his ass.

[Altimaden]

I've been lurking the forums for a while and I dig these discussions - I'm learning a lot.

Got a question though;

if I fire a long range low pk slammer outside of pitbull (a-pole?) and bandit notches, loosing my lock, then if I re-acquire lock does that support my missile again?

[GGTharos]

Not in this game. In RL, it might - you might never lose the lock/bug if the bandit can't stay in the notch long enough.

 

if I fire a long range low pk slammer outside of pitbull (a-pole?) and bandit notches, loosing my lock, then if I re-acquire lock does that support my missile again?

[Altimaden]

I suspected as much. That's a shame. Oh well at least bandit looses SA if he notches early, right?

[Lurker]

Not in this game. In RL, it might - you might never lose the lock/bug if the bandit can't stay in the notch long enough.

 

Why not? Is it for balance reasons?

[TAW_Blaze]

Why not? Is it for balance reasons?

 

:megalol:

 

Forget about this balance bullshit, it doesn't exist. It's a simulator. Some of the stuff are not implemented due to lack of data, or lack of resources.

[Lurker]

Seems like a nice excuse everytime someone brings up an obvious bug or a badly implemented system. Lack of Data, Lack of Resources....

[Pyroflash]

Seems like a nice excuse everytime someone brings up an obvious bug or a badly implemented system. Lack of Data, Lack of Resources....

 

Unfortunately that all we have though. ED isn't a DICE class studio here. They have a limited budget and staff, and everything has to fit within their business constraints.

 

Edit: well, everyone has to fit their business within operating constraints. ED's just happen to be a tad tighter, that's all.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Pyroflash

[Solty]

Hi. Rookie here.

 

Is AiM7 better in anything than AiM120?

[bigcountry]

Yes. The aim9 is for close range as far as I know. The aim7 you will need to have a constant lock on the target I believe

[TAW_Blaze]

Seems like a nice excuse everytime someone brings up an obvious bug or a badly implemented system. Lack of Data, Lack of Resources....

 

Good luck getting access to data to accurately model an AMRAAM or anything of that kind.

 

Shouting loud that something sucks doesn't help making it better.

Edited April 4, 2014 by <Blaze>

[Solty]

Yes. The aim9 is for close range as far as I know. The aim7 you will need to have a constant lock on the target I believe

 

That is not what I asked for. I want a comparison of AiM7 and AiM120

[mr_mojo97]

What a cheeky sod! You asked a simple question and got a simple answer. Don't be so bloody rude and go look on Wikipedia if you don't like the answers you've been given

[Exorcet]

That is not what I asked for. I want a comparison of AiM7 and AiM120

 

Range : AIM-120

Speed: AIM-120

Guidance: AIM-120

Weight: AIM-120

Drag: AIM-120

Multi-target: AIM-120

TWS compatible: AIM-120

Flood Mode: AIM-7

 

That's pretty much it. Generally it's said that the AIM-120 is superior unless you're trying to shoot a bandit that is in WVR of an ally. In such a case the 120 may lose lock and kill the friendly. The AIM-7 would lose lock and go off to nowhere.

 

I personally only take the AIM-7 if I want a challenge.

[Buzpilot]

What a cheeky sod! You asked a simple question and got a simple answer. Don't be so bloody rude and go look on Wikipedia if you don't like the answers you've been given

 

lol,He didn't even answer the simple question, he never asked about the aim9 at all. So who's the cheeky one here?

 

Aim7 have more explosive, and is better to bring down bigger slower targets (original made for bombers). Total useless exept that. (DCS use a older version than last one on wiki)

Edited April 8, 2014 by Buzpilot

[GGTharos]

DCS uses AIM-7MH, which was fairly capable against fighters.

 

Aim7 have more explosive, and is better to bring down bigger slower targets (original made for bombers). Total useless exept that. (DCS use a older version than last one on wiki)

[lunaticfringe]

The AIM-7s after the 7E are quite maneuverable, in some respects more so than the AIM-120B, which is the best pure-turning variant of the AMRAAM. The Eagle instruction was that, if you got a break-X with AIM-9, switch to lag, give up a half mile, then switch to the 7M and shoot him in lag.

 

And it was more than happy to cut that turn.

[Solty]

What a cheeky sod! You asked a simple question and got a simple answer. Don't be so bloody rude and go look on Wikipedia if you don't like the answers you've been given

Oko. Wiki will not solve the problem.

 

Range : AIM-120

Speed: AIM-120

Guidance: AIM-120

Weight: AIM-120

Drag: AIM-120

Multi-target: AIM-120

TWS compatible: AIM-120

Flood Mode: AIM-7

 

That's pretty much it. Generally it's said that the AIM-120 is superior unless you're trying to shoot a bandit that is in WVR of an ally. In such a case the 120 may lose lock and kill the friendly. The AIM-7 would lose lock and go off to nowhere.

 

I personally only take the AIM-7 if I want a challenge.

 

Thank you very much. I thought maybe AiM7 will have a single significant advantage, so that I could play with it...:smartass:

[Maximus_Lazarus]

The AIM-7s after the 7E are quite maneuverable, in some respects more so than the AIM-120B, which is the best pure-turning variant of the AMRAAM. The Eagle instruction was that, if you got a break-X with AIM-9, switch to lag, give up a half mile, then switch to the 7M and shoot him in lag.

 

And it was more than happy to cut that turn.

 

Could you explain the bold part in noob terms ?

 

What's the "break-X" and what's "the lag" ?

[lunaticfringe]

You know that big X that comes up on your HUD when you're too close for the respective missile shot (below RMin)? That's called break-X.

 

Lag? Re: Pursuit curves. Lag/Lead/Pure. See Shaw, et al.

[runny]

Hi. Rookie here.

 

Is AiM7 better in anything than AiM120?

 

Range : AIM-120

Speed: AIM-120

Guidance: AIM-120

Weight: AIM-120

Drag: AIM-120

Multi-target: AIM-120

TWS compatible: AIM-120

Flood Mode: AIM-7

 

That's pretty much it. Generally it's said that the AIM-120 is superior unless you're trying to shoot a bandit that is in WVR of an ally. In such a case the 120 may lose lock and kill the friendly. The AIM-7 would lose lock and go off to nowhere.

 

I personally only take the AIM-7 if I want a challenge.

 

I have to data to back what I'm about to say, but just from what I observe playing DCS, the aim7 seems to get up to speed a lot faster than the aim120.

This seems to be really nice when the enemy is running like heck and you're trying to catch up and shoot him down. Using the 120, it seems the rockets burn long but don't really create the thrust that the short burn of the 7 has. So it takes a longer time to catch up.. Longer time catching up equals more distance to cover on a running enemy. Seems like the aim7 has more effective range here.

Also in the same scenario, the lead pursuit of the 120 drives me crazy because it'll sometimes come up alongside the enemy ship and just fly with it, intending to intercept it at a point further ahead, only to lose steam and peter out. It'll fly so close without hitting that if it would just detonate it'd almost definitely cause damage.

The aim7 seems to go directly for the enemy without trying to calculate its interception and seems more reliable for these shots.

 

Personally I usually don't pack aim7s just because it screws up the weapon cycling order :P

Edited April 10, 2014 by runny
Fixing iphone autocorrect

[EtherealN]

Hi. Rookie here.

 

Is AiM7 better in anything than AiM120?

 

AIM7 has an advantage in some situations: the fact that you have to maintain lock means you can make some shots "safely" that AIM120's would not allow - such as when you have an engagement zone with mixed enemy and friendly. (If you lose lock before terminal with the AIM-120, it'll go for the first thing it acquires - which might be GGTharos. :D )

[GGTharos]

I blame two things:

 

1) The lack of INU and fly-out waypoint calculations for the AIM-120, as well as lack of track memory in the simulated APG-63.

 

2) You. :D

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqDE76JjK7o&t=1m30s

 

AIM7 has an advantage in some situations: the fact that you have to maintain lock means you can make some shots "safely" that AIM120's would not allow - such as when you have an engagement zone with mixed enemy and friendly. (If you lose lock before terminal with the AIM-120, it'll go for the first thing it acquires - which might be GGTharos. :D )

[EtherealN]

You told me to take the shot! :D

[GGTharos]

That doesn't make you any less responsible! :D

 

(To those wondering what this has to do with F-15 combat ... it was done in FC F-15s, and demonstrates SA breakdown).