Thinder

I just had a heated argument with a member of Steam VR support here is the story: I flew DCS/Mirage F1 without any problem in both solo and multi-missions with the following combo. Pico4. Streaming Assistant. Steam VR Beta. I've recorded all my flight tests with it, both with Mirage 2000C and F1, it wasn't perfect due to settings needing fine tuning but it worked, but a few days ago, previous to DCS update, I started to experience a few issues such as the F1 missions starting in map (F10) again, not being able to go back to cockpit view. I did send a ticked to DCS support and their solution worked for a little while, also switching to DCS Beta had something to do with it, but then Steam VR started to raise a hell of a mess in the combo, starting without command, even without Streaming Assistant ON, and shutting DCS down when I try to close it, Steam support always come back with the same excuse "Pico 4 is not supported" apparently they know little about their own software, they are in full denial and refuse to aknowledge that it actually worked, I recorded several VR videos to prove it, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000C, F-15, while testing settings for my new GPU. Now it's getting worse: The F-5 also is not supported but I was able to fly it for a short while before the update, the Mirage 2000C also seems to experience some issues, so I wonder really if developers of both Steam, Open XR and DCs care about it at all. We're looking at alternative solutions to Steam VR, because obviously they are unwilling to even try to figure out if something have changed from their side. Pico doesn't offer much of a solution either, they have their own version of Virtual Desktop in store, which I purchased but am unable to use because it requires a Streamer App which doesn't offer the option to open the game, although I'm looking for some lucky breakthrough there too... What a mess, still working at it. And... BINGO. I managed a flight test in the F1. First I reinstalled Pico's recommanded Virtual Desktop streamer and I already own their version of Virtual Desktop (available in their App store), then reinstalled Steam VR Beta and when I was in the room, I started the Virtual Desktop app on screen, it was that of Steam but I managed a bad run (no command settings such as AF etc) in the F1 mission Interception.

It's here!

It's not the price I would like to see falling, it's the latency.

I'm not a great fan of Youtube GPU/CPU tests, especially when you see how those gear are tested, much too often systems are not optimized for the GPU or CPU with mediocre RAM bounding and settings, keep a critical mind about it, it will spare you a lot of frustration time and perhaps money. Anyway, what mattered to me was to get a system that would let me play DCS at 4K MSAA X2 with decent DCS settings and frame rates, and I managed to do just that with a GPU that cost 27% less than the cheapest 4090, runs flawlessy at temperatures below 73°C in all tests I conducted, all at 4K MSAA2. My PC upgrade is finally achieved, I got 5 system fans plus a CPU fan, one of the system fans is located below the card, blowing upward, the two Noctua NF-A12x15 are 10mm slimmer than the average 120mm fans and can fit in front of the GPU, the lowest one is linked to the GPU and doesn't kick in under low load, my cabling is cleaner to maximize airflow. Now the issues are something else, Microsoft automatic update conjob messed up my system entirely, I had to do fresh installs because of a Critical System Failure, couldn't repair, couldn't reset, once a fresh install achieved I was able to install all drivers Automatic Update replaced by Microsoft ones (all AMD drivers including GPU, chipsets and Realteck Audio) I was warned by AMD (see my signature) through AMD Software Adrenalin that automatic update might replace their driver... That's for amount of mickey taking damages Microsoft aggressive update policy is forcing on users, automatic update is now disabled and I check on this regularly. The other issue is Steam and Steam VR playing havoc with DCS, it looks like the last Steam VR Beta update is taking over DCS start command and if I try to close it, it shuts down DCS completely. If I can find a viable alternative to play DCS without using Steam, I will, on top of this, their refresh rate is 20Hz below what my Pico4 can take.

Best example in a top industry? Lockheed Martin with their F-35... Did you see head rolls since they went over budget by $165 billion (21 Nov 2022), failed to meet so many required specs that it takes hours to read the full report? As far as I know, be it Nvidia or AMD, they work in a rather adverse environment with the results of COVID lock down and market restrictions, I'm not surprised they both hit hiccups and failed at production quality levels because they are selling ton more stuff than Lockheed Martin sells F-35. Btw the Air Force reduced their required number and go for an upgraded version of the F-15, which is like digging a 1080Ti from the grave because the latest X or Y card is a pile of manure... My two cents, before both manufacturers can work stable, it's gonna take some time, expect more Oooooops in the process (and more stupid bashing videos). ps my RX 7900 XTX works just F.I.N.E and runs at full steam below 73°C

Thanks for your reply! I'll try that again and see if it work, it also might be because of other apps settings, Steam VR Beta, Virtual Desktop and Pico link...

It was used by both AMD and Intel users when their CPUs couldn't manage faster RAM, it is easy to overclock but it is not its only strength. It is very stable and can offer a much wider range of timing, reason why you can O.C a 3200MHz kit to 3600Mhz, mine is 3600MHz from stock. I do, I posted it several times over in different topics to inform people. The other kit was a Crucial Gaming 3200MHz Cl16, both 32GB capacity. as you can see, at 4K the physics score is much higher, Graphics Score not so and it was with an EVGA 1080Ti. This combo allowed me to play DCS at quite higher settings because it wouldn't throttle down under load, which is what matters most especially in this game. It's easy to compare bandwidth, and when you know about the limits of those CPUs it is logical that any CPU of this range of frequency will struggle dealing with the bandwidth coming from a GPU like this one, that's load, so if your controller limits aren't kept high, it will throttle down and reduce that GPU channel bandwidth. As my tests shows, I have a good headroom for my CPU to keep all channels open under load and I obtained very good results with this combo CPU/GPU too, but it is only possible because of the Cl14 RAM kit. Here, fist 2 tests after fitting the RX 7900 XTX, this is compared to the same combo, same settings with the 1080Ti. There is a reason why people are paying a premium which percentage have been going sky high for the last two decades, manufacturers needs to finance their R&D but the problem is that people's peggybanks didn't follow the same inflation, so they have to compete by rushing out for production products which haven't been fully tested as Nvidia and AMD demonstrated lately. And also, they don't all work at the same rate, there still are years to go before someone come up with the equivalent of B.die for the DDR5... So it's better to wait for all this technology to be proven, I'm not the US government with a Congress approving for a few more billions to pay for a program gone crazy with development costs, I need to be sure of what I do and I've been researching the subject with inquiries to tech supports. No risks for that, I've done my home work for my GPU as well, at full load it doesn't go over 72°C and I'm already improving my cooling. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/25723-usefull-hardware-software-links/?do=findComment&comment=5136237

It's not that frequencies aren't important, it is that the Ryzen architecture is optimized for lower latencies and that right now, there isn't a die in the market to really give an edge to Ryzen 4 CPUs while Intel CPUs are a lot happier coping with higher frequencies (or so I presume). This is what stopped me to go all the way to the new technology, I knew what the Cl14 B.die RAM could do for my 5600X, and I made a bet that it would be even better with the 3D, plus, going for a brand new GPU was enough of a risk for me, I'd rather wait until those new gear are proven bullet proof before spending my money on it and I got the GPU to deal with it. It's not only DCS, it's overall performances and more to the point making sure you eliminate the CPU/RAM bottleneck, because for every application there is a point where the load will be greater than what your CPU controller can manage with a non-B.die RAM, while a Cl14 kit will give you a headroom a high street kit can't. I was already pleased with the improvement from the Crucial 3200 to the GSkill Cl14 with my 5600X, now I can't believe anyone would hesitate when you see the difference it makes with the 3D... Here the difference between the 5600X and 32Gb of 3200 Mhz Cl14 and the 7 5800X 3D with 3600Mhz Cl14, remember that the 5600X clocks faster. I'll take those improvement any time, considering it's tested back to back with 3DMark pro at 4K MSAA X2, precisely when under load when the controllers would throttle back without a B.die kit. To justify my choice now Bottleneck Calculator give me a 13.5% bottleneck for my 5800X 3D and RX 7900 XTX, the Cl14 kit allows me to gain 18.91% at full load in Graphics, that's 5.41% more than the bottleneck would result on with a non B.die kit, and Physics Score (CPU) improved also by more, that's what going for a B.die allows me to do.

I already have one to allow me to fit my new GPU in my case, this leaves me with about 3mm space between the two, but I had to displace one of the fans which now sits at the bottom of the case, blowing upward through an opening, so I'm about to order another one. It is 10mm thinner than your standard 120mm fan so if you have a similar problem of space, this could be the solution. Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM 120mm Beige/Brown Slim-line Fan

I have been upgrading all of this recently and have no longer use for it. The GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb was purchased from CEX UK second hand but in pristine condition. It still work flawlessly today. The two Corsair PSU were upgraded within a short time because of CPU upgrade, the 750W was used the longest, I used the 850W only a few weeks before upgrading to a RM1000X to get good headroom for my new GPU (see my system stats below). If you are interested, I will proceed through EBay to make sure of a safe transaction, I will give absolute priority to DCS players. Boxing are not clean, there was no box for the GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb when I purchased it but the gear are OK. PM me if you're interested.

Sure thing, but if it packed up, what then? CEX give a two years warranty with those gear, that's my point, they test what they buy from people, I should know it, I have a friend working at CEX Wembley and he tested my RX 7900 XTX when my PCI_E1 slot couldn't get it to work, so I knew the card was good, while support form most manufacturers and sellers weren't really of much help. People can buy from CEX with the absolute guaranty that it isn't a lottery and if their gear fails within the 2 years, all they have to do is return it for exchange or refund, I was clear in my first comments, how you failed to pick it up is beyond me. ps don't reply for the stake of arguing I'm not in the mood and people who look for cheaper equipment don't need this sort of behavior. Cheers.

I'm still struggling with the Mirage F1 but I know something for sure: You need to keep RPM above 7000 and if AoA is a bit steep, better add power which is why it is recommended to keep the RPM above 7000 in order to increase engine response. Now I keep the same AoA and fly the aircraft on the gas, I figured it makes things easier for me... There is an issue with this module handling anyway, it will be corrected with the next update. Spot-on. It was a vast improvement on the Mirage III/V series and you can bate your X-Mass turkey that Dassault would never have released for service an aircraft with adverse yaw of this amplitude, knowing a few things bout the Mirage F1, I got suspicious as early as I realized what the module flight characteristics were. In any aircraft using spoilers, there always have been a given amount of induce yaw but this is way too much, and it is much too unstable in yaw, I never read/heared anything about the F1 having this issue, I know it is more lively in rough athmospheric conditions than the III/V because of the slats but that's all about it.

You're right, first you'll need the right RAM for O.C, second in an enclosed space such as your laptop, overheating is most likely to occur, for little gain it's not worth it. Keep it for work and bite it until you have a reasonable budget for building a mid-range gaming PC, there are solutions for finding the right gear for you but a bit of advise, do your home work seriously before spending any money, such as Power Unit requirement for the whole planned system, CPU support etc. Multiplayer missions can be more demanding because of the number of objects present in the mission, if you start with let's say 2 or 4 buddies from a ground base, you'll have other aircraft, vehicles, characters such as base guard around you from start up, so my 180Ti was struggling a bit to load all of this up despite my CPU/RAM combo being optimized. Your system is limited, better not hope to play the most demanding missions even in solo with it, look for a proper gaming solution and keep it for work it serves you just fine. It's a combination of things, your CPU controller manages all other channels, the other devices can be faster, if there is a bottleneck it will throttle down and it matters little if you have 64Gb of 3200 MHz RAM or a 4090 GPU, it won't make a difference under load, precisely the area of the game you'll find yourself in multiplayer missions. Bottleneck Calculator First you could post a topic for request of info for different systems, Intel based or AMD based or mixed CPU/GPU from both, be aware there is a little war between the two communities, personally I have been playing with a mixed system and cannot prize enough the quality of the EVGA GPU I used for all that time, but I was on AMD and decided to upgrade AMD. It's a question of choice, right now, the best solution I would go for is an AMD based PC with an B450 GAMING PLUS MAX and AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, that would be the cheapest of solutions to start with, then you can chose either standard RAM or pay a premium for B.die Cl14 kit, gain is substantial and it did really help me with heavier load missions. I got my 1080Ti from CEX, it still work and I might put it for sell through Ebay, I also have 2 Corsair PSU, one 750W and one 850W, I'll give priority to DCS players and just opened a topic on the subject after sending a request for information to CEX about purchasing from out of the UK. PC upgrade solidarity. My advise, if you can buy from CEX their gear are thoroughly tested and come with a 2 year warranty, my self I can't guaranty that my 1080Ti will work for long, it's been serving me for a good while now and might not, plus even if it was probably the best card of its generation it is still limited for what you'd like to do with it, with the basic system I suggested I'd go for a second hand RTX 3080 at least. That's all I can say really, the most important thing is for you to know where you step, because mediocre performances are often caused by bad bounding and BIOS settings, if you understand how your planned system will work before spending the money it will save you a lot of time and frustration, if not money. CEX 1080Ti 11Gb CEX 3080Ti

Hi! I just sent a request for information to CEX (UK) to know if it was possible to procure equipment from them from addresses out of the UK. If the answer is yes, it's all good for you guys because I have been with them for more than a decade and can guaranty you that they are top of my list when it comes to service and warranty, I got myself an EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti from them that came with a two years warranty more than 2 years ago and still work flawlessly today. If the answer is NO, perhaps we in the UK could organize to purchase from CEX and resale in a safe way (through EBay for example) the needed equipment so as to allow players to build their own PCs at lower cost, in case of failure, all what you'll need to do is post it back to reseller. I will update with CEX reply as soon as I got one. What do you think? Fly like Maineyaks.

The 3D Ryzen some are thinking about are Ryzen 4, so this demands a new motherboard and DDR5, which right now isn't the smartest move to make if one want bang for bucks and tested, certified solutions. Let's be realistic. Those are unproven technologies so far, people will pay the premium as always for manufacturers to finance their R&D, taking the risk of hitting the walls of incompatibility, mediocre drivers, bugs etc, not to mention the fact that the Ryzen are still designed for lower latencies and that the RAM manufacturers are lagging well behind because right now, they do not have a viable replacement for B.die and have to increase their RAM frequency just to keep their chips stable. Higher frequency is all very good for Intel which CPU strive on them, but not so much for the Ryzen architecture and AMD have been going through a lot of effort to increase the size of their caches on all 3D CPUs, Ryzen 3 or 4 alike, it's not for no reason, they are expecting the RAM industry to keep up but perhaps they looked too far forward. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm smarter or more experienced but having built PCs since the PII, I'm sure of one thing by now, unless you have money to waste, you'll wait a couple of years before jumping in the bandwagon of the next gen sockets and DDR 5, I have no doubt someone will come up with a new die which will be the equivalent of B.die for DDR5 in the future but this was precisely the reason why I chose to upgrade my PC with Ryzen3 and B.die Cl14 RAM, the only technology risk I took is my GPU, and I'm lucky, it worked. AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 Specs, Release Date, Benchmarks, Price Listings Nov 2022.

I don't think it will make much difference, it would for CAD design but not so much for gaming, the rest of your laptop is really at the limit of the minimum requirements but your RAM capacity is already twice what is needed, I run multi-missions in VR with 32 GB of RAM but it is optimized for my CPU. Frequency matters more for Intel CPUs and being limited to DDR4-2666 is an issue, you could ask Intel support to know if your CPU controller can take Cl14 RAM providing it exists for laptops because it was used by many Intel players to increase the frequency of their RAM before the Intel CPU could take 3200 MHz RAM. Intel: How to Overclock RAM Everyone dreams about playing DCS multiplayer missions, but they are much more demanding on player's systems, I've been playing solo for years with a system probably twice as fast than what you have now and only started doing multiplayer stuff recently after upgrading my PC several times over, starting with the PSU, CPU and RAM. In my humble opinion, you should keep the money and start saving for a mid range gaming PC, not hesitate to look for second hand gear in good conditions, which is what I've done (EVGA GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti) and so got myself some seriously good deal, then upgrade gradually if your budget is limited. Laptops are not the solution to play DCS, otherwise, home-built is cheaper but you'll need to know what you're doing if you want to put one gaming PC together, players like myself occasionally have some gear available after upgrades such as PSU or GPU, if you're lucky motherboards, CPUs and RAM. If you're in the UK, you could look here. CEX their gear comes under 2 years warranty.

I agree, figured the last thing I've done was the simplest, Smart Access Memory really boosted performances.

Enabling Smart Access Memory in BIOS, same settings than the previous test in 3DMark Pro. 4K MSAA X2. Here we go: I recovered the loss of CPU performances experienced during the previous test in Physics test simply by enabling Smart Access Memory in BIOS, a net gain of 67.348%. It takes a lot of work to fine tune an AMD system (I don't know about Intel systems), but they have a lot of hidden potential from stock. A bit of advise. Check that your Automatic Update isn't playing havoc with your drivers, I had a message from AMD through AMD Software Adrenalin saying the Windows update may have replaced their driver by a Microsoft one. So, from stock settings, fine tuning allowed me to gain 48.380% in Graphic Test 1 FPS, 14.368% in Graphic Test 2 FPS, 59.927% in Physics Test FPS, 12.550% in Combined Test FPS, all of this at 4K MSAA 2. The whole system runs faster, smoother and temperature remains in the low 70°C during tests, 56°C right now with Streaming Assistant and Steam VR Beta ON. I'm gonna go for a flight test in DCS with some harder settings. Fly like Maineyaks...

Now with more moderate settings in DCS, it looks smooth and I realize that my limitation in VR is my Pico4, refresh rate is too low at low altitude for the terrain to look that smooth.

Setting done in AMD Software Adrenalin Edition. Previous settings were stock. Test: 3DMark Pro 4K MSAA X 2. This loss of performance for the GPU in Physics Test should be recoverable using the same method for my 7 5800X 3D, in any case, if the application/game is more CPU heavy, not using under-voltage for the GPU would be the the best option. I didn't touch the VRAM settings but it should be equally possible to boost its performance a little, during the test the temperature stayed around 70°C. Fly like Maine Yaks...

It is, it's departure like it or not. You could try all you want, on the real aircraft, its FCS will prevent you to do it, as simple as that... You visibly have no clue what you're talking about, the F-16 FCS even developed in the 70 was precisely designed to prevent the pilot to put the aircraft in the attitude you mention, so in this module it simply shouldn't happen. Deep stall means that you'll lose the pitch control authority because the elevators are shielded from the airflow by the wing at a given AoA and it doesn't imply any roll input, it happens to other aircraft in particular those with high mounted elevators without any other axis than pitch being involved. i'm done arguing with a guy who doesn't know his A from A to Z in the subject, I have flown aircraft from 1975 and before it leaned enough theoretical to know those things only to have access to a grant in order to pay for my flight hours, perhaps you should start by learning instead of arguing in forums...

That's precisely the same thing, except that the F16 module has this out of the area of its flight envelop where it is prone to depart, its FBW system is programmed to prevent departures of this kind and it would normally work out of this particular area. That's not accurate. It depends largely on the aerodynamic features of each aircraft, they are all different although some aerodynamic features provide with more resistance to departure than other, by memory, the F-16 is limited to 29° AoA because of risks of deep stall but its FBW will prevent you to get there, Roll will not be such an issue for the same reasons. With close-coupled canards, the Gripen and Rafale are naturally spin resistant even with asymmetrical loads to which adverse effects they are a lot less sensitive than conventional tailed configuration or long moment arm canard configuration such as X-31 or Eurofighter Typhoon. During test flight on the Gripen prototype, they relaxed the FCS limits, took it to the vertical down to 250Kt, pulled like donkeys on the stick so as to reach 90° AoA, then locked the stick full deflection in ROLL, which triggered an induced yaw moment with an amplitude of 90°/sec, the rotation was stopped by applying opposite roll deflection. Rafale too managed post-stall maneuvers during high AoA testing, reaching 100° AoA and -40Kt and it still can roll at speeds below 80Kt with its actual limiter, as demonstrated during an ATC vs a F-22, there is no speed limiter on Rafale and during mock combat vs Mirage 2000 they flew it as low as 18kt (flew it mean under full control authority). The aerodynamic are very different, there are no vortex breakdown around the ailerons at extreme AoA because the canard tip vortexes energize the boundary layer, so they can retain full control authority at very high AoA. The reason why their are artificlally limited by their FCS is to avoid your average squadron jockey to loose it due to spacial disorientation, but also because the Air Force stick to old-boy-Boyd high energy management for which those aircrafts are particularly well suited, they don't suscribe to post-stall maneuvers for combat. The canard triggers vortex lift on the delta much lower on the AoA scale so they experience much less induced drag for an equivalent amount of lift and alternatively recover energy much faster than conventional deltas or long moment arm. The F-22 has this vortex breakdown issue and DRYDEN recommended a redesign of the ailerons from YF-22 to minimize vortex bashing due to them breaking down over the ailerons, it needs TVC to roll the same way at high AoA and if you look carefully both F-22 and Rafale have the same wing plan with 70° LEX and 48° wingsweep. So reality is not fully represented in both Mirage F1 and F-16 modules in this case, you should able able to handle them both a lot more firmly than the actual module flight envelop allows for, but the issue of departure in transonic regime of the F-16 remains, it is the result of an aerodynamic solution, it is prone to depart in this flight regime "if mishandled".

I had the good idea to purchase Thrustmaster TM Flying Clamp and MonsterTech Joystick / HOTAS Table Mount. Both are excellent built quality, relatively easy to assemble and mount I certainly don't regret my purchase. The Joystick / HOTAS Table Mount in particular solve the problem of the Thrustamster Warthog stifness, my arm stays horizontal I even can rest my forearm on the armrest if I chose to, I have more room on my desk for anything I need, like putting a Pico4 controller where I can easily find it without looking at it etc. Both recommended.

An Intel system will be more suited to your kind of work, if you do CAD design, some cards are designed for the job (or at least were when I was messing about with CATIA and Fluent)... 9 Best Graphics Cards for AutoCAD in 2023 (January Update) Do try to cut corners withj them, they are not designed for overclocking, go for the one you really need in terms of performances and features. You'll need a lot of RAM, at least 64Gb to 128GB, not necessarily the lowest latency (mostly for gaming) or highest frequency, if you use one of the actual generation processor, it will be limited to 3200 MHz, this will improve with the next generation with different sockets supporting DDR5 RAM kits. Intel processors have the edge with multitreading and top speed, which is literaly what you need to go for in your line of work, the rest is a question of budget (motherboard, RAM, GPU, storage etc), one important thing: When you buy a RAM kit, make sure you buy the whole capacity all at once, the sticks are tested together, because mixing two different RAM kits, even from the same batch can result in failure to boot. Large capacity Solid State Drives are faster than SATA by a margin but you also can fit a Solid State Drive SSD directly on your motherboard (make sure it supports it, hardware compatibiliy is a jungle and no seller is going to ask you what you really need, they will sell you what you ask for), my tip, better going for the largest capacity possible from the word go (2/4TB), you'll run out of storage space faster than you might think, especially if you use your PC for professional reasons. To finish, Power supply is VERY important, you need a power suply that has the right standard, meaning the built quality to deliver the claimed power output at all time, other will not, they only give the maximum output as an indication but can failt to deliver or fail altogether, which leave you with no choice but to replace them, cheaper is never better. Best Power Supplies 2023 Cooling, you need a reliable machine, so chose your case well for best cooling as possible, and service (clean filters, and internals) often to avoid issues, dust is conductive and can cause short cuts and even fires (saw it on one of mine when the dust cause a RAM stick to burn). That's all I can tell you about it I hope it helps but do your home work and researches, you need to understand what you are doing, the best sources are the manufacturer technical support teams, they will gladly answer your questions, just make sure you ask the right ones.