Teej

No driver is "required"....but the stick will work in a _very_ basic manner without the software....except possibly in DCS A-10C. I'm still not familiar with how that works since I don't have the time to buy/play it right now. I will...just can't right now. It will work as a pair of simple directx controllers without drivers...but you're gonna want TARGET.

There's a little booklet in there that has on the front of it the location of where to download TARGET. I'd get it for you but I'm nowhere near my book and I don't remember the official link. The Warthog assembly line started rolling before the software was ready to provide.

I usually have my thumb on the edge of the stick, next to the TMS hat. If I rest it on the CMS hat, too easy to make accidental inputs. It's kinda counterintuitive how comfortable it is on the edge there.

Mav: I think the problem is you have something mapped to the keypad period key. There is currently a bug which doesn't allow that to work. It will work if you remap the command, but make sure to click the 'USB codes' option before clicking on the kp_period. I'm not aware of any other keystroke with this problem.

Hey! That's the combination on my luggage!

To each their own. I made a force-mod Cougar right after AF came out. Loved every minute I flew with it, including the time I've been flying with the VTB. However, I had some instability and tried every way to dial it back...higher pressure, lower pressure, dead zones, curves...but no way I could avoid making unintentional inputs while still having the stick sensitive enough to fly. No way people could comfortably fly off my wing with collisions enabled. To call switching to the WH "night and day" would be an insult to night. And day. Obviously it varies by pilot. LD and Blaze can fly an FSSB smoother than I could ever hope to. (Haven't really followed anyone else around much). I suppose it's possible...maybe even likely...that my aging FCC mod was contributing to my twitchiness. It did have a lot of hours on it. I still love it and don't plan to sell it. :D My personal opinion - no way would I ever use a twist-stick rudder. At least if it's force sensing, though, it can be bypassed.

A fair number of people are interested in center sticks, but twisting the grip relative to the base for a more ergonomic layout, like the real thing is. See, you can mount the stick centered, and "squared" to the pit such that straight fore/aft/left/right motion gives pure y/x motion, but your wrist is twisted at some funny angles to make that happen. This isn't entirely uncomfortable, and this is how Ray and I flew the demo at the release event. It's just a bit unergonomic. Or you could mount the stick base twisted counterclockwise about 15 degrees to match the real A-10's grip angle (such that the stick's forward/backward axis is on about the "11:30 - 5:30" line instead of 12-6. But then you've got to give awkward muscle movements - right roll without a pitch change requires you to push right and forward, for example. This also isn't unreasonable given the Warthog's lack of "axis detents"...but requires muscle memory rather than logic/physics to determine what is a "pure" roll input. Now, after some talk on all of the above on simHQ after E3, I submitted the request for what became the 'rotatedxaxis()' command which would allow you to mount the stick rotated while adjusting the response in software so that you move the (twisted) stick in pure cardinal directions for pure pitch/roll inputs (pitch would now be along 12:30-6:30 from the stick's poitn of view). There's 2 problems with that approach...first, at the time (I hadn't had my hands on a Warthog all that long at that point and I honestly hadn't looked at the "stick limit" piece to see that it was a rounded off square (which, if you twist the stick and use rotatedxaxis(), results in some differential in the amount of throw you get. I was focused on preparing some flight profiles we had discussed and didn't require spending a lot of time pushed against the stops. I thought it was...rounder...and therefore twisting the response wouldn't cause any effective loss of resolution. The other problem is that applying that fix wouldn't work in A-10 at this point unless you rewrote your own profile (unless I'm mistaken - I haven't had the time available to me yet to get in on the A-10 beta. I'm absolutely going to be picking it up when I get some more time.) Anyhoo, what he was asking was if you have the stick mounted offset (twisted) and how you like it, how you did it, etc.

Serial #: 1229 Location: Milwaukee, USA

Given the size of the spring, I don't think it's going to fatigue measurably (let alone anything you could feel) in 5 years of daily use. Just a guess. And if it does...the stick won't lean - the tension is applied uniformly around the stick, not like there's separate springs for each axis.

....wat? You don't "increase force to deflect"...but you absolutely "increase force" to command different roll/pull rates. Up to around 20# max pull as I recall. And different in every direction to account for the ergonomic difference in strength.

I know some FBW, "power assist" aircraft due require increasing pressure. I'm virtually positive the Mudhen works like that. It only makes sense, both for them and for us. The Warthog does require increasing tension (you're compressing a spring after all - it will always take more force to compress a spring further - springs have "rates" - number of pounds per inch of compression). The nice big helical spring, however, is not being fatigued and you're not having semi-random lockring/boot interference and the result is a consistent pull.

It's hard to put into words. I have a stock cougar here with guts that are indistinguishable from new. I personally don't think the Cougar's force required to pull off center is that high. The problem I have with a stock Cougar is the pull changes quite a bit, and rises significantly and somewhat unpredictably, especially as the locking ring compresses the boot. The force required to pull the Warthog off center is only slightly less than the Cougar in my subjective opinion (I don't have a tension scale with a low enough deflection weight to compare objectively). The difference is the smooth consistent pull after that. If you rotate their stick bases so that instead of being parallel to the ground as normal, they are perpendicular to the ground (ie with the stick grip horizontal) they will both come slightly off center due to their weight. The "angle of the dangle" ( grin ) will be similar, but the Warthog will give a little bit more (less tension). The difference is what happens after that... From that position, pull each stick "down" to the stops and let go. The Cougar's stick will snap back to center with a 'thunk', then give a little bit to hang slightly, as above. Do the same with the Warthog and the stick will not even lift off max deflection, let alone snap to center. As to the centering bump...yes, there is a centering bump, but only one, at the stick's absolute "zero input" dead center (rather than any time you cross an axis line). I think you will find it greatly reduced over the center bump on the Cougar.

I know some are a bit...hesitant...to take what we as the VTB say at face value, given our sponsorship status. But if I may remind you...No review, professional or casual, has varied substantially from what we've been saying since E3. You wanted 'neutral' opinions, and that's fine - I get that. I'd feel the same way in your shoes....even though we're not paid promoters. But clearly we haven't misinformed. Consider also among our team is 2 full time professional airline pilots, one CFII building hours, and most, if not all, of the rest of us have had control of a real plane at some point, including (but not limited to) Gliders, Mooneys, Cessnas and the beloved F-16. Whack and Lawndart have both mentioned in our team conversations how much the throttle and the panel switches feel like the controls in their aircraft. RL pilot enough for ya? :D

The Cougar sold for $200...but not until about 7 years after its release. It came out at over $300 and couldn't be had for less for years. If you take the initial selling price of the Cougar and adjust for inflation, you're right in the initial price range of the Warthog. As to the Cougar "needing" mods right off the bat...most people (who aren't as finnicky as us) would disagree. They sold over 40,000 of those things. Ask IJ how many Ubers he made....and Arend how many FCCs...and Realsim how many FSSBs.... I'm willing to bet over 90% of Cougars are unmodified. 95% wouldn't surprise me either. The only warthog mods I can think of as worthwhile might be a slight reprofiling of the afterburner detent...and the primary reason for that is I can't seem to find a setting in lockon for telling the sim where your afterburner kicks in. Falcon had that 12 years ago. :D

Yeah, I was looking at it slightly differently. I see what you mean. I can tell you that in 5 months or so of use on the testing units, it has just never shown up as a problem flying. As Joe said, you need to anal-yze (split for emphasis) to see it. Whatever slop is there, the thing still feels head and shoulders above any other throttle I've used (though I admit I haven't tried some of the newest alternatives) in terms of control smoothness and accuracy. No match for the Cougar in ergonmic feel, but functionally...wow.

I was looking at it a bit and any play on mine is actually between the handle and the shaft. The actual "moving part" seems to be slop free.

Just a guess...I'll bet there was a problem finding a hall sensor component like that that wasn't hypersensitive to the weight of the hat itself and had the pushbutton function. TM isn't in the switch design/manufacture business after all and you have to either go with what's out there or $pec out your own part$.

Yeah, the Warthog's stick base is held on by 4 'M4' screws. Perfect for removal and mounting to the base of your choice.

Indeed. Now people can see why we didn't bother getting defensive when we got called fanboys (or worse.) :D It was kinda 'Well...nothing I can say is going to change your mind, and you'll see eventually, so...whatever." Heheheh.

But seriously though...nice writeup, Coolts. When I first tried one I was afraid the circular nature was going to be more difficult for AG gunnery but I just haven't had an issue there. I've done a few aerial refuelings with it both in AF and FC2 and as much as I love my FCC cougar, it's definitely easier to match the tanker with the Warthog.

I don't think that has anything to do with his Cougar, Cali. ;)

You could always use the hard power switch that's (possibly) on the outside of your computer's power supply rather than the "soft" power switch on the front. And if it doesn't have that...use a surge strip. That said...the software is supposed to be able to control LED brightness, but it's not at that point yet.

You poor dude. :D

HOTAS Warthog review posted on SimHQ

Correct. The TM Warthog's friction control is a wheel on the top of the unit (same face as all the switches), at the front end. It rolls left / right. They did a real nice job with the tension on the throttles. I fly mine with the wheel turned to "full loose". There's still sufficient tension that the throttles won't move on their own. If it's what you like, you could turn the tension up a _lot_ and still have the ability to make fine throttle adjustments (ie no 'stiction').