deloy

Also with the new updates, the misaligned rigging of pedals (which is reflective of real aircraft as per info provided then) is also gone. Can someone else also confirm this? Cheers,

Heading hold below 40 kts and auto-coordination above 40 kts in turns is implemented in DCS Apache. It has been rough at times between updates but as in real world nothing is perfect. Even so, nothing stops you from using pedals in turns.

This tactical maneuver is actually used by helicopters like Ka50 and Ka52 very efficiently as they have no tail rotor to worry about. In a maneuver like this, you can get into LTE or overload the tail rotor due to requirements airflow or excess tail rotor thrust requirements, just like you can get into settling with power and vortex ring state with main rotor. Traditional gunship helicopters can also do it, albeit with above limitations in mind.

From the devs, crabbing issue has not been fixed yet, as it involves some deep changes in the rotor dynamics model. Hopefully we see that soon, and some other weird behavior like that roll on pitch down. Otherwise definitely some welcome changes in SCAS and yaw response.

In case of Apache , quick control response is due the CAS working behind the scenes to give “power steering response “ . This has been quoted by guys who flew the real thing . The inertia should be very evident when SCAS is switched off. However in case of our Apache , currently there is no difference in handling when in pure CAS (FT interrupted) vs when whole SCAS is switched off.

There is some change, in some flight regimes, but not fully fixed in my opinion

Same issue with, although I only tried MP, George couldn't see anything. Weather ok, no fog.

I experienced similar issue before, where I was moving from CPG to pilot seat and lost control. What I found out was when you initially move back to pilot seat, CPG controls are retained which is weird, but if you move to CPG again and back to pilot seat immediately, you get pilot assignments back. My issue was that I had duplicate axis assigned to pedals in CPG, which caused loss of control and crash, unless you follow the procedure I described above. In your case its worth checking flight controls assignments for CPG, if this weird issue is causing this. Cheers,

TBH, the Apache FM is pretty decent and perfectly flyable/enjoyable atm, however we can debate on the fact that it has been almost an year since last update to FM was done, officially, although I do think some small hidden changes have been made. A lot of tinkering is need with saturation and curves to make it good, it does make a big difference, trust me. Barring some issues which are not insignificant, it is flying like a helicopter now and closer to real thing from what I have heard (disclaimer, no real flight time in Apaches !)

Hello, wanted to confirm if any possible changes made to FM this update? I have this feeling that tail rotor thrust is not the same, even if its slight change (seems less), and hold modes are slightly better. Any thoughts? Cheers

It may be server delays also I guess, or issues with local connection, I have experienced this before.

Hello Guys, I have noticed that after recent patch, auto hover is much more docile and accurate. The helicopter catches the hover position accurately and doesnt do abrupt corrections as was the case before. Has anything changed as the changelog doesnt mention any update on FM. Hold modes also seem to have been slightly improved. I havent done any changes to setups, curves or control hardware. Cheers

Maybe if we can get clarification on further development of the FM during early access, as mentioned in the roadmap, it has been delivered. Further FM updates are mentioned after early access. So my question is, will we get a fix of excessive torque and hold modes during early access or after? I know it has been mentioned that the team is working on FM and I do respect the hard work being put into, and I am pretty sure that ED will deliver an outstanding product once its finished, it would be great if above question is clarified. Cheers

Remember that your SAS has limited authority, so if your virtual pedal is depressed to the right and you apply power as you come to hover, heading hold will saturate the pedal as it hits left limit, causing swing to right ( in case of self centering pedals). I dont think this is FM issue par se, as in the real aircraft there is no virtual pedal. Your pedal position is actual position. Off course FM needs to be polished with regards to known issues and I expect we are provided with the long due FM updates. This central position trimmer issue has been highlighted before, its one biggest reasons why some people are having issue with controlling the Apache, as there is a night and day difference in the control response. Other than central trimmer mode, there a unrealistically big delay between control input and helicopter response.

Remember guys, the CAS (Command Augmentation System) is for a different reason than SAS, both systems are termed as SCAS as a whole. The whole purpose of CAS (it is elaborated very well in the manual) is to give a "power steering" type of response where it augments your control input to make it feel the same when flying at all speeds, so this extra SCAS response you see on controls indicator is actually correct. The CAS should also function when FTR is depressed, which is not correctly modeled at the moment, therefore the helicopter response is the same as FMC off when you flying with Force Trim (FTR) depressed. So essentially if you press and hold FTR, it just switches the CAS system off also. This is very evident in control indicator, as you see no movement in "green cross". Cheers

Guys, this module has come a long, barring some issues with hold modes (which got better, got worse and being improved), its much stable to fly. I use a simple TM 1600M with Saitek pedals. Please be aware that if you are not using fancy setup or FFB, use Central Position Trimmer mode. There is a bug in the system that cause controls to be very sluggish if you are using other trimmer modes. Also, Apache is supposed to be stable in hover and much more responsive in forward flight as mentioned by SMEs, which is possible now when controls are setup correctly. Other than hold modes (break out behavior is totally broken now, it was much better before), yaw channel response and some issues with the way CAS is modelled when FTR is pressed, its much better now in my opinion. Cheers

Referring to OP, the point is that there is no difference in handling when FTR is pressed vs when FMC modes are off, so apparently there is no CAS active when FTR is pressed. There is no additional lag compared between FTR pressed when FMC is off. As per Brad’s description the lag should be noticeable when FMC is off . This isn’t the case now in our Apache . I guess that’s why they say it’s still being improved and not in final state. If you see control positions indicator you clearly see CAS working when SAS is on, as clearly described in the manual . However this is not the case when either FTR is depressed or FMC off , which is relevant in this discussion. cheers

Thanks for pointing out, so its already known, I thought it was introduced in the latest patch.......

Guys, Mostly I have been using central trimmer mode, I tried the instant mode recently with the new patch, and it appears that using instant trim option causes cyclic response to become very sluggish, you can observe this in control position window which also corresponds to in game cyclic animation. It is unrealistically sluggish in this mode. However in central position I think it responds much more realistically and there is no lag. Anyone observed the same? Regards

Apparently when in hold , manual cyclic over ride is not working and hold modes remain engaged, also I observed similar role behaviour as discussed here. Seems to be more stable with force trim interrupted , although CAS function with force trim interrupted still not apparent to me at least. Anyone observed this ?

My personal observations after patch: 1. We can see what heading hold is doing using new controls indication , this shows implementation of some real world yaw channel behaviour, although fine tuning in yaw channel needed . You can clearly see when you apply pedals , when the heading hold is engaged or disengaged, by some fancy curve setting I managed to improve response for my setup . Still not perfect though 2. Strange zombie collective channel behaviour is finally gone ! 3. Most of us having issues with help being unstable is probably due to SAS response , which is reduced in my opinion , don’t know why as they said they didn’t change that. Through my numerous tests I am pretty certain something is affecting SAS response , which is causing PIOs, this should not happen in my opinion. 4. Controller settings somehow changes how the helo responds, I changed to instant trim and removed curves , reducing saturation. Made a certain difference . 5. As before , force from behaviour is still far from perfect

Guys you have to understand that autopilot in helicopters works differently than fixed wing. Its not like fixed wing aircraft where you use it when you need to. All helicopters (at least those I know which are equipped with such systems) always fly with all channels on, including heading hold functions which are usually tied in with the whole system. Hind (havent flown hind in real life but have friends who have flown similar Russian systems) has yaw dampening system which helps in real life to limit the rate of pedal input which can result in dangerous flight regimes. It is difficult to feel in simulation due hardware limitations, where ED has modelled delay in input to simulate it. The only time pilots switch these systems off are for training or currency. I always fly using real world techniques (all functions on) and adapt my flying to it, however, there are cases where you have to adapt in sim. Also, please note that microswitch system in pedal is used in other helicopters too, its not peculiar to Hind. Cheers

Considering your case, I can say that from my perspective, if you try to set up your view to match real world sight line, you always end up higher than what you would want in a sim, and you will have tough time trying to read instruments/MFDs. So in a sim you compromise a bit so your sight line is lower than what it would be in real aircraft. Although I have no real experience in Apache, judging from my experience in 2D and with Headtracker, I would suggest your Pic No.2 with a slightly raised sight-line. For Pic No. 1, same applies but for scenarios where you have to focus on visual cues e.g hovering or doing pure VFR. Off course above is subjective and based on my particular 2D setup, with different setups and types of monitors/size etc. some things may be different. Remember that in real world conventional VFR flying, pilots spend more time looking outside view than instruments, which is normally not the case in sim as you need cues which can be felt in real aircraft. Obviously with VR things are totally different. Cheers

Hi, You cant compare real pilot perspective with flat screen, just use the FOV to suit your perspective based on situation you are in. Sometimes, you need to zoom in to get more information from displays, sometimes you zoom out to get better all round view, on top of that, there is no peripheral vision to help you. Headtracking gear may help, although I never used VR in DCS now but I guess that gives you the most realistic perspective in simming, other limitations aside. Cheers

Yeah sorry I meant to say CAS, this can be seen by showing up the control indicator, which doesn't indicate any Command Augmentation when FTR is pressed.