GayCavalier

This is brilliant.. just got it working (again), and now, I've solved my "VR tab crash" problem. OpenXR is running as smooth as ever. I should have known the problem was SteamVR related...

Today's patch swapped DCS's standard runtime from SteamVR to OpenXR natively. So, you need to make the following changes, which I just did one hour ago: Run OpenComposite and set it to SteamVR mode. Make sure that PimaxXR is also set to SteamVR. Replace the Openvr_api.dll in DCSWorld/bin with the original one (is 585kb) if you did the 'per game' install of the 64bit DLL from OpenComposite. Run DCS from Steam in SteamVR mode. Once you reach the main menu, you can exit out again. Don't bother touching OpenComposite again. Go into "OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Media" and set the active runtime as WMR OpenVR runtime as default. Go into PimaxXR Control Center (it'll throw up an error) and click "SteamVR" and then "PimaxXR" as the active runtime. Go into DCSWorld/bin and create a shortcut for dcs.exe. In the shortcut make sure that you add [yourdrive]*\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin\DCS.exe --force_enable_VR as the target. You can then add this shortcut to start/taskbar etc. (Note: "[yourdrive]*" refers to the drive you installed SteamLibrary on. For me that's F: but for you, that could be C:) Get PiTool started up and the HMD turned on and tracking working. Click on your new shortcut to launch DCS directly in Native OpenXR mode (avoiding the OpenComposite>SteamVR workaround)

No sirs! Today's patch swapped DCS's standard runtime from SteamVR to OpenXR natively. So, you need to make the following changes, which I just did one hour ago: Run OpenComposite and set it to SteamVR mode. Make sure that PimaxXR is also set to SteamVR. Replace the Openvr_api.dll in DCSWorld/bin with the original one (is 585kb) if you did the 'per game' install of the 64bit DLL from OpenComposite. Run DCS from Steam in SteamVR mode. Once you reach the main menu, you can exit out again. Don't bother touching OpenComposite again. Go into "OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Media" and set the active runtime as WMR OpenVR runtime as default. Go into PimaxXR Control Center (it'll throw up an error) and click "SteamVR" and then "PimaxXR" as the active runtime. Go into DCSWorld/bin and create a shortcut for dcs.exe. In the shortcut make sure that you add [yourdrive]*\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin\DCS.exe --force_enable_VR as the target. You can then add this shortcut to start/taskbar etc. (Note: "[yourdrive]*" refers to the drive you installed SteamLibrary on. For me that's F: but for you, that could be C:) Get PiTool started up and the HMD turned on and tracking working. Click on your new shortcut Enjoy!

Wait, what now? Does this mean we can now simply have Microsoft OpenXR Tools for WMR (along with the runtime) installed, and DCS should just work in VR. I'm wondering what the command line open is for dcs.exe to get it to launch in VR mode (rather than having to go through the Steam menu).

I think this also depends slightly on the HMD. I have a Pimax 8kx, and I use 64.5mm IPD on the headset (my actual measured IPD is 66mm), and I use 66mm IPD in DCS. I have the Winwing F18 setup, and I mounted it on a frame built from 2080 extrusion so I could get them positioned as per real-life. I find that the above settings perfectly match my VR scale to RL scale. As draconus suggested, measuring your own IPD and using that as the setting in DCS isn't a bad starting point.

So.. Without uninstalling anything, I repaired Windows 11, checked DCS in VR.. "VR tab" crash. I then clean installed the latest Nvidia drivers, and started DCS. While in the main menu, I went into options and then the VR tab, all fine as usual, then I entered F/A18-C instant action "Cold and Dark". (it doesn't matter which airframe/mod or mission - same problem). It crashed again at "Mission Start" or "mission load complete". Either way, if I enter the VR-tab before or during a mission, I get a crash either at "mission load complete" or during the actual mission when I dare click on said tab. 2023-01-25 02:19:16.785 INFO APP (Main): Loaded F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\Scripts\Hooks\webGUI.lua 2023-01-25 02:19:21.155 INFO Dispatcher (Main): //=== END OF INIT ======================================// 2023-01-25 02:19:21.156 INFO EDCORE (Main): (dDispatcher)enterToState_:2 2023-01-25 02:19:21.182 INFO EDCORE (Main): (dDispatcher)enterToState_:3 2023-01-25 02:19:21.182 INFO LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average game loading: 68.5608 % 2023-01-25 02:19:21.188 INFO APP (Main): Screen: MainMenu 2023-01-25 02:19:24.853 INFO APP (Main): Screen: Settings -- When I enter the options, VR menu.. 2023-01-25 02:19:30.560 INFO ASYNCNET (6668): Login success. 2023-01-25 02:19:46.698 INFO APP (Main): Screen: MainMenu 2023-01-25 02:19:52.139 INFO APP (Main): Screen: InstantAction -- Entering F/A18-C instant action "Cold and Dark" 2023-01-25 02:19:53.867 INFO Dispatcher (Main): load terrain from ./Mods/terrains/Caucasus\terrain.cfg.lua 2023-01-25 02:19:53.879 INFO SECURITYCONTROL (Main): Loaded mods/terrains/caucasus/terrain.cfg.lua.pak.crypt 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO TERRAIN (Main): lSystem::load(./Mods/terrains/Caucasus\terrain.cfg.lua) 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO TERRAIN (Main): lSystem::openSession(./Mods/terrains/Caucasus\terrain.cfg.lua) 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO TERRAIN (Main): lSystem::exit() 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO VISUALIZER (Main): TerrainRenderer::release 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO TERRAIN (Main): lSystem::CleanScenes() 2023-01-25 02:19:53.880 INFO EDOBJECTS (Main): lTypeObjectManagerImpl::clear 13 2023-01-25 02:19:54.320 INFO EDTERRAIN4 (Main): TERRAIN_REVISION = 4920 2023-01-25 02:19:54.326 INFO EDTERRAIN4 (Main): Open terrain cfg "./Mods/terrains/Caucasus\terrain.cfg.lua" 2023-01-25 02:19:54.327 INFO EDTERRAIN4 (Main): Build date: 2023-01-25 02:19:54.327 INFO EDTERRAIN4 (Main): Texture quality: "min" 2023-01-25 02:19:54.327 INFO EDTERRAIN4 (Main): Language: "en" ..and..later... while still loading the mission.. 2023-01-25 02:20:19.136 INFO VISUALIZER (Main): Preload() finished 2023-01-25 02:20:19.182 INFO APP (Main): Screen: mission_offline 2023-01-25 02:20:19.248 INFO Dispatcher (Main): precache units resources in slots 2023-01-25 02:20:19.302 INFO LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average mission loading: 14.6808 % 2023-01-25 02:20:19.302 INFO Dispatcher (Main): loadMission Done: Сontrol passed to the player 2023-01-25 02:20:19.316 INFO EDCORE (Main): try to write dump information 2023-01-25 02:20:19.318 INFO EDCORE (Main): # -------------- 20230125-022019 -------------- 2023-01-25 02:20:19.320 INFO EDCORE (Main): DCS/2.8.1.34667 (x86_64; Windows NT 10.0.22621) 2023-01-25 02:20:19.322 INFO EDCORE (Main): F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin\Visualizer.dll 2023-01-25 02:20:19.324 INFO EDCORE (Main): # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at 19230C3D 00:00000000 2023-01-25 02:20:19.329 INFO EDCORE (Main): SymInit: Symbol-SearchPath: '.;F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld;F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\system32;SRV*C:\websymbols*https://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols;', symOptions: 528, UserName: 'GayCavalier' 2023-01-25 02:20:19.331 INFO EDCORE (Main): OS-Version: 10.0.22621 () 0x100-0x1 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000080C3D (Visualizer): delete_UI_VRScene + 0x388D 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000080DE4 (Visualizer): delete_UI_VRScene + 0x3A34 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000000E3AC4 (Visualizer): smSceneManager::DestroySceneManager + 0x4F74 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000811713 (DCS): SW + 0x3D1AF3 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000008320B9 (DCS): SW + 0x3F2499 2023-01-25 02:20:19.978 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000007F16F4 (DCS): SW + 0x3B1AD4 2023-01-25 02:20:19.979 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000007F25C4 (DCS): SW + 0x3B29A4 2023-01-25 02:20:19.979 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x000000000228469E (DCS): AmdPowerXpressRequestHighPerformance + 0xF5769A 2023-01-25 02:20:19.979 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000BDFBA2 (DCS): SW + 0x79FF82 2023-01-25 02:20:19.979 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000000126BD (KERNEL32): BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x1D 2023-01-25 02:20:19.979 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x000000000005DFB8 (ntdll): RtlUserThreadStart + 0x28 2023-01-25 02:20:20.280 INFO EDCORE (Main): Minidump created.

System specs: i9-11900KF OC to 5500Mhz with water block- RTX3080 OC - ASUS ROG HERO VIII - 64GB DDR4 @3600MHz- 1TB SSD OS - 2TB SSD GAME- 1000W PSU Pimax 8kx - All other USB except keyboard and mouse unplugged. No mods except ED core mods. Running DCS in latest OB. I'm reopening this one, because maybe someone in the community can help - as i'm at a dead end, and my support ticket doesn't seem tempting to anyone at ED. Whenever I attempt to enter the VR menu (in options) during a mission while in VR, DCS will crash. Also, If I enter the VR menu while in the main menu prior to going into any mission, then DCS will crash at the "Mission Load Complete" point. Happens regardless of the aircraft. I can go into DCS, enter the options at the main menu, enter the VR tab, and then OK-out, and exit DCS without issue. The settings in the VR tab, and rest of options save into the options.lua without issue, so it doesn't appear to be a file-access issue. This doesn't ever happen when in 2d (non-VR mode). The game is also stable for hours in VR. But going to Options>VR kills it instantly. I had originally reported this issue, but managed to resolve by reintalling Windows 11, Reinstalling Nvidia drivers (clean install). Then reinstalling DCS. Then PiTool. Then SteamVR. With no mods and a completely clean saved games folder, the "VR Tab crash" symptom doesn't happen. However, after playing two or three times (i.e. DCS restarts) without changing any settings, the issue comes back. I've attempted complete reinstalls of everything - finally stripping everything back to a bare OS without Nvidia drivers and building up from scratch (after deleting any install folders or remanent files or registry entries). Below is a section from the log from when I start up in VR (SteamVR), I went into DCS, logged in, ran the F/A18-C "cold and dark" instant action. Everything appeared fine, until I pressed escape, click options, and then the "VR tab". Note that this is after completely uninstalling EVERYTHING, and running a repair on Windows 11, and then installing PiTool, SteamVR, then DCS. 2023-01-24 20:16:37.876 INFO Dispatcher (Main): loadMission Done: Сontrol passed to the player 2023-01-24 20:16:51.904 INFO LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average mission execution: 0.3110 % 2023-01-24 20:16:53.367 INFO APP (Main): Screen: Settings 2023-01-24 20:16:54.577 INFO EDCORE (Main): try to write dump information 2023-01-24 20:16:54.579 INFO EDCORE (Main): # -------------- 20230124-201654 -------------- 2023-01-24 20:16:54.584 INFO EDCORE (Main): DCS/2.8.1.34667 (x86_64; Windows NT 10.0.22621) 2023-01-24 20:16:54.586 INFO EDCORE (Main): F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin\Visualizer.dll 2023-01-24 20:16:54.591 INFO EDCORE (Main): # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at FAC10C3D 00:00000000 2023-01-24 20:16:54.594 INFO EDCORE (Main): SymInit: Symbol-SearchPath: '.;F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld;F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\system32;SRV*C:\websymbols*https://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols;', symOptions: 528, UserName: 'GayCavalier' 2023-01-24 20:16:54.596 INFO EDCORE (Main): OS-Version: 10.0.22621 () 0x100-0x1 2023-01-24 20:16:54.926 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000080C3D (Visualizer): delete_UI_VRScene + 0x388D 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000080DE4 (Visualizer): delete_UI_VRScene + 0x3A34 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000000E3AC4 (Visualizer): smSceneManager::DestroySceneManager + 0x4F74 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000811713 (DCS): SW + 0x3D1AF3 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000008320B9 (DCS): SW + 0x3F2499 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000007F16F4 (DCS): SW + 0x3B1AD4 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000007F25C4 (DCS): SW + 0x3B29A4 2023-01-24 20:16:54.927 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x000000000228469E (DCS): AmdPowerXpressRequestHighPerformance + 0xF5769A 2023-01-24 20:16:54.928 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x0000000000BDFBA2 (DCS): SW + 0x79FF82 2023-01-24 20:16:54.928 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x00000000000126BD (KERNEL32): BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x1D 2023-01-24 20:16:54.928 INFO EDCORE (Main): 0x000000000005DFB8 (ntdll): RtlUserThreadStart + 0x28 2023-01-24 20:16:55.163 INFO EDCORE (Main): Minidump created. The only thing that seems to fix this issue is fully uninstalling DCS, and then running a full installation/repair on Windows11, then reinstalling everything from scratch. However, even then, the "VR tab" issue will happen again within 2-3 restarts of DCS - and I will not have changed any settings or installed anything new. I also tried OpenXR/OpenXR-Toolkit/PimaxXR, and exactly the same thing happens, so I know it's not a SteamVR issue either - DCS was running fine in VR for at least the last 18months, and this happened about 3 weeks ago, and i've been trying to fix it ever since. I've checked the SSDs that i'm running. I've checked pagefile. Used different versions of Nvidia's drivers. Unplugged every USB device possible.. i've tried everything I could think of to try and work out why, after a completely new OS install, DCS will run normally in VR for a few sessions, and then the dreaded "VR tab" crash will come back again...

Having both on the highest setting would be: ["terrainTextures"] = "max", ["textures"] = 2, If you're having major issues with DCS not saving the options.lua, you could always delete it (or rename it to "options.lua_old"), DCS will rebuild it when you restart DCS, that may fix the issue with the file.

In options.lua ( C:\Users\motoadve\Saved Games\DCS\Config ), find the "graphics" section, then find the "textures" setting, below in RED : ["graphics"] = { ["DOF"] = 0, ["LensEffects"] = 1, ["MSAA"] = 0, ["SSAA"] = 0, ["SSAO"] = 0, ["SSLR"] = 0, ["ScreenshotExt"] = "png", ["anisotropy"] = 4, ["aspect"] = 1.6666666666667, ["box_mouse_cursor"] = false, ["chimneySmokeDensity"] = 4, ["civTraffic"] = "", ["clouds"] = 2, ["clutterMaxDistance"] = 500, ["cockpitGI"] = 1, ["defaultFOV"] = 78, ["effects"] = 3, ["flatTerrainShadows"] = 0, ["forestDetailsFactor"] = 1, ["forestDistanceFactor"] = 0.6, ["fullScreen"] = true, ["heatBlr"] = 1, ["height"] = 768, ["lights"] = 2, ["messagesFontScale"] = 1.25, ["motionBlur"] = 0, ["multiMonitorSetup"] = "1camera", ["outputGamma"] = 2.2, ["preloadRadius"] = 60500, ["rainDroplets"] = true, ["scaleGui"] = 1, ["sceneryDetailsFactor"] = 1, ["secondaryShadows"] = 1, ["shadowTree"] = false, ["shadows"] = 3, ["sync"] = false, ["terrainTextures"] = "max", ["textures"] = 2, ["useDeferredShading"] = 1, ["visibRange"] = "High", ["water"] = 2, ["width"] = 1280, },

I've noted this issue too - even if you do change, the settings, the "hand controller" selections do not initialize correctly when DCS starts i.e. it always initializes with "both hands" laser pointers regardless of what you have set or saved in a prior session.

Here's the correct link: Files · openxr · Campbell Suter (ZNix) / OpenComposite · GitLab The 64bit per-game DLL should be the one used in DCS's bin folder. Remember to run OpenComposite "As Administrator" Key binding for OpenXR Toolkit menu is CTRL+F2 If you look in Users...AppData (hidden).. Local.. you'll find a OpenComposite folder. Delete that - download the system wide version from the link above. Copy Folder from zip onto Desktop, run exe as Adminstrator (right click.. run as), and it'll force opencomposite to redownload the system-wide DLLs again too. Then switch to opencomposite.

Try this link instead - the download links appear to be working properly on this one: aashishvasu/OpenComposite: Fork of https://gitlab.com/znixian/OpenOVR (github.com) Scroll down until you get to "Per game installation".

Check your ultraleap settings - in the control panel app, there's a setting that permits you to switch between "desktop" mode and "head-mounted" mode. It sounds like you're in the opposite mode, so you're hands appear back to front and upside down...

The *.xyz domain has been going up and down all day - just try another time. Was working when I posted above.

Did you also download the "per game installation" 64-bit DLL and place in the DCSWorld/bin folder? If not, then go to quest-craft/Open-Composite (github.com) Scroll down until you get to "Per game installation". Download the 64bit version of the DLL. Go into DCSWorld/bin folder and rename the existing "openvr_api.dll" to "openvr_api.dll_old" Then copy the downloaded "openvr_api.dll" into the DCSWorld/bin folder.

This may have been brought up before, but I cannot find it as its own topic. When starting DCS in VR, the leap motion VR hands are not present, even if the options.lua has leap motion set as "enabled". The only work around is to click into options, special, leapmotion - doing so shows that the setting is indeed enabled causing the hands to appear. However, when they do appear, they appear with laser pointers by default, which requires one to enter the VR tab to set that option as "no pointers" (again). Looking at the options.lua file, it's clear that the user settings are being saved, but it seems as if DCS does not initialize the settings when DCS is started, meaning that whatever the virgin install default setting is, remains so until the user goes into the options menu and resets everything back to the way they wanted. If it isn't possible to correctly initialize these settings are DCS start, would it be possible to have "use hand controllers", "Hand Controllers use cockpit stick", "Hand controllers use throttle". "Hand interaction when palm grip is obtained", "and "no pointers" set unchecked by default? meaning that, if leap motion hands are enabled by the users, it doesn't automatically default to "both hands" with respect to the laser pointers. I currently have an issue where I cannot enter the VR menu in simulation without an instant crash, so having these settings disabled by default would mean I wouldn't need to enter the VR menu. Thank you

Thank you - ticket #135568 submitted

A common theme appears to be this in the log files: 2023-01-19 00:54:28.679 INFO EDCORE (Main): # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at E4D70C3D 00:00000000 The 0000005 Access violation can be found in all of my logs post the "trying to write dump information" I'm not sure if this is pertinent to the issue. 2023-01-19 00:54:27.225 INFO APP (Main): Screen: Settings 2023-01-19 00:54:28.670 INFO EDCORE (Main): try to write dump information 2023-01-19 00:54:28.673 INFO EDCORE (Main): # -------------- 20230119-005429 -------------- 2023-01-19 00:54:28.675 INFO EDCORE (Main): DCS/2.8.1.34667 (x86_64; Windows NT 10.0.22621) 2023-01-19 00:54:28.677 INFO EDCORE (Main): F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin\Visualizer.dll 2023-01-19 00:54:28.679 INFO EDCORE (Main): # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at E4D70C3D 00:00000000

OK.. that didn't work. Now i'm totally out of options. See new log based on going into F18 training mission, clicking options, and then "VR tab" dcs.log

... i'm going to nuke the site from orbit: - blank OS SSD, - uninstall and delete any trace of DCS (Steam) ..and start over. This is clearly not a Pimax or Steam thing because everything else works perfectly. I'll report back.

dcs.log Symptoms: Every other VR title I have works fine... Whenever I attempt to enter the VR menu (in options) during a mission, DCS will crash. Also, If I enter the VR menu while in the main menu prior to going into any mission, then DCS will crash at the "Mission Load Complete" point. Happens regardless of the aircraft. This happens every. single. time. I had originally been running OpenComposite (OpenXR toolkit and PimaxXR) successfully for some months without issue, and then this started last week. At first, I thought a PimaxXR update had caused it, but it appears to be a basic DCS thing as it also happens on Steam alone. I've attempted complete reinstalls of everything - finally stripping everything back to a bare OS without Nvidia drivers and building up from scratch (after deleting any install folders or remanent files or registry entries). Currently, I've found that even a fresh install of DCS either before or after installing PiTool and SteamVR causes this. I've tried this with 3 different clean Nvidia driver builds. I didn't think I needed it, but i've also created a fixed 32Gb pagefile on OS drive, and that did nothing. I've cleared fxo and metashaders a number of times and deleted the whole savedgames\DCS folder (to reset) too. I've lost count of the number of times i've verified the DCS game files.. Settings in DCS are 'virgin' i.e. untouched from clean install. I am at a loss - this came out of nowhere about 2 weeks ago. Any help would be appreciated. Environment: i9 11900kF, 64Gb RAM, RTX3080, all Samsung 980Pro SSDs (double checked integrity with Samsung Magic). Pimax 8kx. Win11. Latest Nvidia Drivers (also tried rolling back to previous two). PiTool (latest). SteamVR (non-beta) latest/repaired. Steam DCS slow repaired. No mods whatsoever.

Feature request: Would it be possible to 'smooth-out' the "basket snap" animation during connect, it's a real immersion killer in VR when the basket snaps 6inches laterally in one frame: the position of the probe and basket are 'known' for some frames prior to the connection, so a smoother transition should be possible, so it at least looks as though the probe is scooting down the inside of the basket's cone. Also, in real-life, the basket tends to lift (depending on airframe) just before you connect as the basket comes into the airflow regime of the nose of the aircraft - most pilots have to anticipate this slight last-second lift during their final closure on the basket. This would be a nice feature to include.

Only 11 months to reply, however: I've just set up a Winwing UFC/HUD and 3 MFDs in F/A-18C hornet geometry. I got a large piece of cardboard and taped it to the front of my desk where i was expecting the controls to be located. I sat with my 8kx with hand-tracker installed and adjusted my seat and 'VR cockpit head cam' position until I had my RL hands sat upon my RL knees and VR knees. Once done, I then moved my seat backward and forward until my index finger touched the RL cardboard as the same time as the VR UFC. Dear Lady Wife then used a sharpy to circle my finger position on the cardboard as I called out tags such as, "UFC 1" or "RDDI gain down". Once mapped, I precisely recorded the position of the cam, and the front of my chair from the cardboard. I located the UFC and MFDs according to where I was touching. I now have my seat about 1cm back from where it was, such that my index finger doesn't actually touch the VR button, but does touch the RL button. If you turn off the green laser pointers, then the job is complete. I also mapped button 12 on my F/A18-C thrustmaster joystick (the little one that is a push button and up/down rocker), such that I can turn on and off the left and right VR hands independently, through the UI-layer mapping. I only 'need' the hands when working the radio or the MFDs. I have all of my other buttons mapped to be toggled through voice-attack - so for startup i just look at the button in question and say, "Battery ON" or "Engine Crank LEFT", for example. As EDMUSS stated, getting rid of obvious IR reflection really helps stop the ultraleap hands from disappearing or bouncing around on the screen.