lion737

Hi Wombat, I did NOT plead for no rudder trim for everybody. Please read the post carefully before arguing against it. I strongly suggested the option to disable it, because they make no sense for the combination FFB stick and most of the rudder pedals. regards PS: exactly as dahlstrom discribed, if you use a FFB stick, where you don´t have to do the centering, it does not make to much sense to think about centering the rudder, even if it has self-centering. BTW, there is NO centering of the rudder in the real KA50 ! No pilot would go airborne with such a ´weird´ system installed, cause you wouldn´t survive too much flights.

Patch didnt fix rudder trim ??? I did as instructed. But it doesn´t work :mad: It just can´t be possible, that the patch didn´t fix the rudder trim !!! Please advice how I can disconnect the rudder trim, so I can use the trim together with the FFB stick as designed, keeping the rudder steady during trim, as it is in the real KA50 !!!!!!!!!!!! I waited patiently for that patch, but if this 2 minute programming work hasn´t been done, my patience is over :mad::mad::mad: I just don´t understand, that there isn´t a simple option to disable that trim influencing the rudder. ED invested years to create the best FM ever made for a Heli, and just forgot this simple option ???????? For all who think, I don´t know how to trim, once again the point: In the real KA50 the trim takes the pressure from the rudder, but it does NOT change the input. As rudder pedals for PC´s don´t have real centering pressure where is the reason for that weird implementation ? If I have some rudder applied in the sim (for example straight forward flight at 200 km/h: little right rudder to keep the ball centered) and I now ckick the trim the input doubles in the sim !! That would kill the real chopper instantly ! The sim design makes sense for forceless joysticks. But for the combination FFB stick PLUS rudder pedals (the most realistic way to fly BS - BTW) it is plain b.....t ! PS: I hope all real time pilots could back up on that matter and all simmers-only pilots refrain from advices about trim technique :smilewink:

Hi Einstein, you obviously just don´t want to get the point: Do that in a real heli : light deflection of rudder, keep cyclic steady. push trim 5 times. Nothing will happen ! Do the same in the sim (version 1.0) and you will have full (!!) rudder imployment. Please don´t tell me about improving trim technique - PLEASE ! regards PS: BS is a great sim, but i stopped flying it as i can´t correct that bug (no script possible with the MSFFB2). I am waiting for the patch. I just don´t get used to falling out of the sky cause of a few trim clicks - allthough it is only a PC sim :-))

I use the Microsoft FFB2 with CH Throttle and CH Pedals. The slider of the Sidewinder is good for additional zoom (together with TrackIR). I´ve had Saitek and Thrustmaster as well, but they had no chance against the Sidewinder´s opto electronic design.

As far as i know there is no FF switch anywhere within BS (you just can change the force with FF Tune). When you move your stick, click trim, then it should stay at this position without any control change. If it doesn´t something with your stick driver setup is wrong. Can´t you use it without any saitek software ? Try install the driver without any setup software. Worth a try. I don´t have any ´rumble´ either, but guess that´s normal (why there is that shake setup i don´t know). But trimming is the great advantage of FF.

GameStar is a ridiculous paper for 14 years old boys. Not worth to talk about that ´rating´ ;)

I have Vista64 and XP on my system. With the affinity tool Vista gives you about 15% better frame rate over XP. (without it is 20% slower) I don´t need that. 25-30 fps is good enough for me. I boot XP most of the time. I hate to wait after every mouseclick. XP is reacting instantly. Vista is first checking wether everything is ´save´. And then it asks you, wether you really did click the mouse, then you click to continue. You got to be patient ;)

I leave the heading stab off. Otherwise you have to click the trim after every turn, or the AP is trying to turn you back. And you can fly the turns more coordinated. Before you want to use ´turn on target´ you have to switch heading on again. PS: real pilots have to fly without AP perfect, before they may switch it on. I recommend that procedure as well with the sim.

I get the following FPS: VISTA 64: 21 WinXP: 25 VISTA 64 with affinity: 29 So it is no good idea to run Vista without affinity, but it is just 14% faster than XP. Perhaps I will upgrade to Win7, but this 4 frames don´t justify to get crazy with VISTA the whole day, as I don´t use the PC only for BS.

exactly exactly That is now the opposite of what you said above ;) Or can you explain how a one core program could run faster, if you divide it to several cores ? You loose time whenever you switch the cores, as they can´t run parallel !! Only multithread software can use different cores at the same time, but the performance increase is not linear, because the threads have to wait for each other in order to keep it synchronized.

That´s right. DCS.exe is running on one core at a time only, whatever you set the affinity to ;) So you should not expect any multicore operation at all. The affinity thing is obviously just a way to circumnavigate a bad VISTA control of the cores. Otherwise it would use less than one core for DCS :lol:

Before they don´t fly perfectly without AP they surely will not be aloud to use it ! (...would cost too many lives and money :D) I would do it the same way with the sim. It´s much easier to use the AP correctly if you know how to fly without.

Thank you very much !!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

The new trim logic is only useful for non-FFB sticks. :mad: :ranting::furious: The easy fix for the rudder trim is not adressed ???? (Option to disable rudder trim for non-centering pedals - especially in combination with FFB stick, where you don´t need to center after trim) :helpsmilie:

If I get this right, we will be able to disable rudder trim that way.

I agree. DCS is just two steps ahead of LockOn now. I wouldn´t waist time and money on it anymore, and hope to get a SU27 module. That would close the circle from Flanker 1.0 :D (don´t know wether this idiom is understood in english :D)

If you have a non FFB joystick, you have to center the stick after every trim. Although it is easier to do than with the rudder pedals, it is unnatural. With your FFB stick you dont have to think about anything. You click and the force is removed. You don´t change the ´input´. So you could click 3 times a second - nothing could go wrong. About the setup: you can´t set anything within windows. In BS controls set: check swap axis, and set the force to around 50%. If the force is set to 100% you will move the stick unintended when clicking the trim (too much change in force moves your hand). And again: the problem at the moment is the rudder when trimming. Therefore it´s getting worse the more often you trim (rudder input is moving to full extend very quickly unintended). Try not to touch the rudder when trimming. (i can´t do that because i dont feel the center) really :thumbup: NO !!!...for sure. I started with the non-ffb sidewinder. It was no fun at all. The MS FFB2 is just outstanding for that sim. If you set the force to zero (within BS !) you dont need the trim (as you dont need to remove force). But you have to get used to fly without any force. It is therefore not a good solution. But if the rudder trim drives you crazy, try it :D There is another function of the trim: telling the autopilot about your intended heading. But as long as you fly without heading stabilization you dont need that as well.

I get this crash very often when starting multiplayer. I have to restart computer to get out of this. At this moment i see the desktop and the sound of the mission just started. (never had this crash at single player) # -------------- 20090222-135149 -------------- E:\BlackShark\bin\stable\wRadio.dll # C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION at 029993FC 01:000183FC # # EAX = 459C69A8 # EBX = 00000000 # ECX = 00000000 # EDX = 45D74960 # ESI = 00000000 # EDI = 0384E320 # CS:EIP = 001B:029993FC # SS:ESP = 0023:0012FBC8 EBP = 459C6A88 # DS = 0023 ES = 0023 FS = 003B GS = 0000 # Flags = 00010202 029993FC 459C6A88 0001:000183FC E:\BlackShark\bin\stable\wRadio.dll ?remove_communicator@wCommNetsManager@@QAEXPAVwCommunicator@@@Z()+C 029993FC 459C6A88 0001:000183FC E:\BlackShark\bin\stable\wRadio.dll ?remove_communicator@wCommNetsManager@@QAEXPAVwCommunicator@@@Z()+C

Sorry, that´s not correct. It is not realistic that you have to center the rudder pedals after trimming. As there are no FFB pedals, there is no way to make it absolutely real. But the way it is done now, is unpracticable. Better no rudder trim at all than such a mess. PS: it is easier to center the rudder with your twist rudder than with pedals with little centering force.

That is the big problem, you are right ! Therefore I fly without heading stabilization whenever possible. But if i need it and have to use the trim therefore, i do the following after every trim : 1. switch on control indication 2. try to center rudder indication 3. click trim 4. center rudder 5. check rudder indication neutral 6. switch off control indication That has nothing to do with real flying. It´s fighting with the program :mad: But if you don´t do that procedure, you will loose control sooner or later, because you inadvertantly trim the rudder to full input. Or you have the control indication ON all the time and check the rudder input all the time. IMO the best way to solve that would be a different trim command for the rudder trim (with the option to combine both). But at least the option to disable rudder trim is necessary.

I think the trim with the MS FFB2 would work great, if there wasn´t the rudder trim: you could click much more, because you don´t need to care about any centering. Therefore you never get this strong forces at the cyclic (...and the effect you have been talking about - BTW have you set the force to 50% ?). You can test this like that: don´t use the rudder at all (...ok, that´s terrible uncoordinated flying :cry:) - now you can use the cyclic trim at it is indended !! You are right, if you are flying very fast, it is way out of center, but that is real. And I think you could get used to it very quickly. But first they have to fix that rudder :helpsmilie: (the rudder trim, the way it is programmed, is BTW absolutely unrealistic: they would loose all their K50´s before reaching the battle zone in real life :lol: : three trim clicks at full speed and you have full rudder and that´s it) Until then you could set the force to zero (or very small force). So you dont need the trim at all. That´s IMO better than with centering force (what would be unrealistic in a chopper).

I have two systems running: one with the MS FFB2 and CH Rudder and the other with MS FFB2 and the throttle of the X45. There i am using only the rudder at the throttle (operated with two fingers). At the second system, the rudder trim function is working perfect. That´s because i have a strong centering force and wouldn´t like to hold the rudder with the finger. But at the first system, operating the rudder with the legs without centering force, the rudder trim is absolutely annoying. Three quick clicks to get the cyclic centered perfectly and the rudder shows full input, because you can´t get the rudder centered as you should. Conclusion: There is only one way to get it right on EVERY system: we need the option for the rudder.

You are exactly right. And that is what drives me nuts. There must be the same logic at the stick AND the rudder ! So if i am using a FFB stick, i could use the trim as designed in the real chopper. But ONLY if i dont have to center the rudder pedals. I just dont understand why they dont provide that easy function: enable/disable rudder trim. I fly without trim now as well. But i am still hoping that they fix that soon.

rudder trim I dont have the reset trim function mapped. Makes no sense for me. I always try to fly coordinated. But if you do so, you need some rudder input. And that is where the trouble begins. The moment you release the trim button, the rudder input jumps rapidly elsewhere. That is the end of your coordinated flight. I understand there is no other way to do it with the cyclic in combination with a non FFB stick. But it is solved perfectly with a FFB stick. But with rudder pedals it is absolutely unnecessary, as you have no real force on PC rudder pedals. In the real plane you dont have to mess around with your pedals when pressing the trim button. Thats why i hope they give us the option to disable the rudder trim. It would double the joy of that sim for me. And it is not much programming work. I hope i can convince some more, so it makes the way into the first patch :D PS but i am not the only one at least: ...but no response of ED so far on that matter :(

The trimming with the MSFFB2 is really fantastic. But that´s the reason why i hate the rudder trim so much. You can´t keep the position there. You have to center it and that´s even tougher with pedals as with a joystick. If you have no center force at your pedals, its even more annoying :-(((