ttaylor0024

I'll save you the time. He's going to say he's trimmed up on speed and using the throttle to control the ball, just like every other naval aviator in history. Just do some research on carrier aviation and it will verify what I am saying since you're hell bent on not believing me, or anyone else in the thread.

This is why I asked you to read previous thread comments. It's not the pilot that's doing anything wrong, it's you're interpretation of what he's doing. A little high start, too much power on the come on in the middle to a little high in close to the little fly through down at the ramp. Watch the ball (or glide slope on the DDI) and notice what he's doing with the power, and what happens to the glide slope. Power comes on, the settle is stop and he moves back up on the glideslope if he adds too much. Power comes too low he starts to settle. Before dismissing what others have to say on the topic try to understand what they're saying, especially if you don't have any experience in the first place.

And I'm letting you know that your assessment is incorrect. The smallest of turbulence can make the VV move around the bracket, in fact, from the top of the bracket to the bottom is ~2kts difference. AOA is controlled by the pitch (trimmed up on speed, the FCS actually accomplishes this in the hornet automagically, other carrier birds do not do this), and the altitude (on downwind/inside the 180) / glideslope (ball flying/ILS approach, etc) is controlled by the throttle. Myself and others in this thread have firsthand experience, and I ask you again to go back and read through all these comments in the thread because it explains everything about the topic. If you try to do this backwards you will not trap, simple as that.

I can't tell if you're serious or trolling, because literally everything you wrote is incorrect in carrier aviation. Even the assessment of the "pilot using throttle to maintain the flight path marker inside the aoa bracket" is incorrect because that's not how that works. I suggest going through this thread in its entirety.

I said you shouldn't need that much throttle movement because you actually don't need that much throttle movement. If you're high at the start you do have to keep it back and jab it forward and off again in order to keep the engine spooled up (you left that part out of my quote), so you can clearly see why he's doing that, however as mentioned he leaves power on too long going high again causing him to have to do that all again. You can pretty clearly see what's happening with the ball just by his throttle movements in this video, however I can understand that it's difficult to visualize without doing it before, as well as these guys always make it look easy, when in reality it's pretty difficult starting out. You have to have several hundred FCLP landings before you ever see the boat, and even then most are lucky to get one OK pass. Ball flying is very very precise, and you leave power on for a fraction of a second too long, even just a tiny amount of power, and that's the difference between a trap or bolter. Again, there is a perfect power setting, and when coming down you should be bracketing your throttle movements in order to arrive at the ramp at that perfect power setting. It's much easier to try to find that setting than mis-time a power correction in close, or worse yet, not add power at the exact right time. Arrive at the start on to a little high, move the ball up slightly to see where you're at in relation to the ball (vertical displacement decreases as you get closer so it's important to know if you're on the high side of that or the low side so you don't bust out, essentially a VSI prediction), bring it back on, a little power to avoid settling, leave it on. Too big of power corrections leads to too much nose control, and leads to mediocre passes. Easiest way I've found is setting a predicted power setting for your weight/config, and adjust slightly from there till you have it. Sometimes you barely have to touch the power if you get it right. The rhino video just posted is a good example as well, while you can't see his hand the entire time you can hear the engine and see the ball. You can see the biggest movements are quick when the ball is high as he keeps the engine spooled on the come down, however stops it from going low and brings it a little high again and continues to bring it down at the ramp to on. My entire point isn't he's doing it wrong, but as far as examples for new guys (especially in simulators), smooth is good.

No, you shouldn't need that much throttle movement. You can actually tell what's happening to his approach by his throttle movements. When you hear the power off but he jams it forward then off quickly he's trying to keep the engine spooled up while coming down on the ball from a high position. As he gets close to center you see him jam it forward for longer periods of time to prevent settling below the ball, which he likely does as the high power setting is there for awhile, which will lead to him again going high on the ball as seen by the low settings with the pumping of the throttle again, etc. There *is* an intermediate setting for exact glideslope control and your throttle movements should be bracketing as you come down to catch that, because large corrections in close to at the ramp will send the ball flying one way or another. But hey, it works for him so who am I to judge. Carrier aircraft have a special fuel system that allows quite a bit of extra fuel to be introduced into the engine below certain altitudes to increase engine response. As long as you aren't at idle when you increase power (or have been popping the RPM by forward movements when coming down) the engine response is actually quite good for a jet engine. On top of that, the ball is so sensitive that you nearly immediately see the trend changing.

I flight instructed civilian side before and it was always pitch for A/S (in this case AOA) and power for altitude, even on instrument, but that's besides the point and don't want to go off on a tangent like before in this thread. Important thing is that this isn't like every other aircraft, and the Navy has to do things a certain way to get aboard the ship consistently. If you're off AOA you don't trap.

Yes, trimmed up on speed a mile or so prior to the FAF, then just ride it down with power.

Correct, at Navy fields we have the IFLOLS just like we do at the boat so landings are the same. Even only having a PAPI at a civilian field I'll still fly it like the ball as best I can (not nearly as precise). Pitch for AOA (trimmed you shouldn't have to do anything most of the time in good conditions), power for glideslope.

Yep, I think that's where I remember reading that, I stand corrected.

No problem, I flew a lot of GA stuff before I started doing this so I understand it seems a little goofy. I just hit the I believe button until I wrapped my head around it. So I'm the pattern well normally hit the break, then slow up. Drop the gear as soon as we can, continue slowing to on-speed. We really only reference airspeed to ensure our AOA probe isn't stuck, and once we make sure it's working properly we essentially ignore airspeed all together. It's both easier to use and better for trapping to be on AOA because you don't have to worry about the lower stall protection in the approach turn, etc. it compensates automatically, and the trim remains trimmed for the airspeed (the hornet obviously but non-FBW aircraft are trimmed for AOA as well, although it manifests itself as trimmed to an airspeed. This is why when trimmed to an airspeed in a ga plane it increases airspeed in the turn, the wing is looking for that same AOA). To answer both questions here, you just firewall it when you touch down, and yank the stick in your gut. Seems like you're asking for a stall, but the momentum of the jet will make the nose gear touch and bounce back up and you essentially coax it into a fly away attitude, and when that nose comes back up you just ensure it doesn't get too high, but you have to get it off deck asap because the landing area isn't that big. If you trap you don't pull idle till you're in back stop in the wires. You plan to bolter. I'm not to the Hornets yet, however I remember reading that the baby Hornets would go burner and the rhinos would just go mil, but I could (and probably am) be wrong.

Figured they would, just something we don't deal with.

Yes, this is true for most phases of flight, but the groove to the boat isn't most phases of flight. When I climb out or level off of course I have rough gouge numbers for what to do, however the thing is with these aircraft that external stores dramatically change your fuel flow settings for level flight, and if you rely on those numbers to fly good then you're in trouble. Generally in the pattern you don't have time to set fuel flow to an exact setting, it's more of a reference quickly to make sure you're in the ballpark. If you stare at it trying to change it (like you have the luxury of doing in airliners, etc) you will be off your altitude rather substantially and your speed will get away from you. It's actually very impressive, and even more so frustrating. Refering to waveoffs now, again, it's imperative you don't rotate at the boat because you have a big dangling hook on your tail and if you rotate past on speed aoa then that hook drops too far down, and when that happens you run the risk of hook slaps, stab slaps, or IFEs, all of which are bad and will break the jet pretty good. Also, we don't have fancy TOGA buttons, first and foremost we're a weapon that just so happens has to navigate, so don't have a lot of amenities airliners do. AoA is used in lieu of airspeed in landing, in fact all I do with airspeed in that regime is check it to make sure my AoA is working correctly. AoA is more than just speed though, it sets proper angles for the pilot to see the ball, as well as sets the proper hook point to avoid skips, slaps, and IFEs. As long as your under max landing / max trap speeds you're good to go. Information about the aircraft config is relayed on initial calls to Marshall, and you give your fuel state on the ball call, otherwise, the tower freq is completely silent as well. Afaik weights are only delt with on cat shots, traps aren't adjusted at all.

Yes, lateral stick is required for rolling still, you'll just notice the throttle for glideslope control instead of pushing/pulling. The weather is just annoying more than anything, weather isn't a big deal here at all. That's not a glideslope bracket, that's the E bracket, it shows you on speed aoa. You can see the ball on the left of the boat, and can see that he's high coming down so he tries to gun it to catch a center ball, however flies through down. You normally go mil on touchdown, not before. It is however an excellent example of using the throttle for glideslope control.

It's just a different kind of flying from any other aircraft. It takes most quite some time to be able to fly the ball at all, and literally a year of training to be able to go to the boat. The only time we really reference air speed in the pattern is to make sure our AOA probe isn't stuck. Everything that has changed over the years is designed with boarding rates in mind at the boat, because being even 5' off glide slope at the wires, or off AOA means you bolter or hook skip bolter. I'm excited for DCS to be able to offer this kind of specialist aviation field, not only will it be excellent for strike fighter aircraft to be added to the game, but the amount of people that would want a fully accurate carrier experience will bring the masses over.

It's a little different at first, but you learn quickly, or are force to rather. Just trim it out and don't really do any push or pull, just have an index finger and thumb on the stick. Different times for sure, HUDs are awesome. For what I'm doing now I practice them, definitely a little different but once you're trimmed up you're good, you just don't have the E bracket directly in your sight and can't see your trend. Can't use the VV for spot landing like you can on a runway. I haven't been to the boat yet. I can't speak for those hornet drivers.

You don't need an opinion on the topic, you have multiple posters that have hornet time in the thread, as well as others that have flown tailhook aircraft as well, their way is the best way. If you don't believe it now, just act like you do and over time you will understand why it's done the way it is. Correct, pitch and power work together, however it's imperative that tailhook aircraft land at the correct on-speed AOA as it sets the correct hook point on the aircraft, as well as maintains a consistent hook-to-eye across the platform. The ball is incredibly sensitive so if you come a little fast at the same height over the deck as an on-speed approach, the fast aircraft will see a low ball leading to an addition in power for a bolter, or a higher chance of a hook skip with the hook being higher off the ground than normal. This is why we trim an airspeed and use power for altitude- higher boarding rates.

AOA is controlled by trim/longitudinal stick movement, altitude is controlled by the throttle. Should also specify the VV should be 3* down to avoid any over-stress or flat approaches. Anyway, can we get back on topic? Nobody comes here to learn about a 172 and there's no need to throw around how much time you have in one, especially with it being so irrelevant to the thread and hornet.

When you dirty up on speed that's literally all there is to it. When you break to downwind you put the gear and flaps out, slow to on speed AOA (NOT an airspeed, we calculate a rough airspeed that on speed AOA should be around with level wings). This on speed AOA is calculated by the engineerds to be the optimal hook point for the ship. From the 180 you roll in, maintain your VSI targets to meet your checkpoint altitudes on the approach turn while maintaining on speed. Rolling into the groove you're still on speed, center to little high ball, and you're working the throttle from there. You literally will not have to move the stick forward or aft at all, mainly just left and right to maintain lineup. Throttle will move around (shouldn't be the huge power corrections you see on some videos) to maintain the ball. No, it's done with power. In fact, if you try to waveoff at the ramp and rotate the aircraft nose up you'll have an in-flight engagement or hook slap, both of which would be a bad day because your hook has hit/caught something while your aircraft isn't close to touching down. VV at the boat is purely a trend indicator and used in conjunction with the E bracket and lineup to maintain AOA, you can't set it on a spot on the runway like you can on land because the boat is moving. All altitude changes in the pattern are done with power, not pitch. Pitch will follow power automatically when trimmed for an AOA/Airspeed, no user input required 90% of the time. There's the off chance you need to influence the nose a little after hitting a bump or something, but even then, the inputs are not even a quarter of what you do in non-carrier birds. Not only is our landing strip moving, but it's also much smaller than your average runway. Pictured is a runway from a hornet base. Outlined is the carrier box (same dimensions as the boat) with the landing area boxed inside it.

My best attempt so far at recreating the famous F-14 gun kill on the 104th. reference:

Magic's G limit for launch is 2.4 or something like that. The video looks like the Supers didn't have lock in the first place. As mentioned above, it probably has something to do with maneuver limitation time on launch, and with the target being in a turn, out of the seeker head's FOV.

I don't really see where he was ever defending his missile model. He's mentioned more than once it's a problem in their underlying code that effects all missiles, HOWEVER due to the capabilities of the 120C you don't see it in that particular missile as much. We all know it's not working the way it's supposed to. We all know the ranges are horribly wrong too. DCS's stance on the missile range is they need hard data in order to change the model (even though their current model has no resemblance to the real missile). I've said it before in this thread a few times, and he mentioned it somewhat as well, if you want it changed then do something about it. Don't complain on the forums for weeks on end, go try to find the information yourself (from a reputable source) and submit it to ED.

ARH is a MASSIVE advantage. Let's say it's 1v1, both missiles have a max range of 30 miles. You could fire first with your ER all you want, but you have to maintain lock to get a kill. That's the key. You fire first, I get a launch tone so I decide to fire right after (in reality I'd go for first shot, but this is worst case scenario opening up a BVR engagement). We both crank to keep eachother on the gimbal limits, however our missiles would still find their target without more maneuvering. Once my missile goes pitbull, I can notch, break your lock, then press hard while you try to evade my missile because at that point you had 2 options: Try to keep lock on me, which wont work 99% of the time because I'd go full defensive to break it as I mentioned, or you'll go defensive once you realize you've been shot at (at which case you'd be at a disadvantage because you wouldn't know until way after I've shot) in which case I'm not worried about your fangs at all. While I press you will most likely have notched me and my missile (which is unlikely both happen at the same time because of two different radar systems in two different locations), and I'll be full burning towards your location scanning, and the minute I find you again you have another present coming your way. This continues until I'm on your 6 or you're dead. That hidden advantage you're talking about IS ARH in a nutshell, you just don't know until it's already halfway there, or worse. Within 10 miles it's a monster as well because I don't even need a radar lock to get a kill anymore, I can just point and shoot at you. It's to the medium range threat as the R-60 is to the short range. There have been times where I'm purely defensive, evading missiles and turned my head to see the bandit a few miles behind me. I'd just drop below the next mountain peak if I could find one, reverse course, pop up and launch an AMRAAM maddog in the direction of the enemy and a few seconds later I'd notice I got another kill. Like the ER, the range on the AMRAAM right now is pitiful. Like the ER right now, the AMRAAM is spoofed with loads of chaff... either that or I'm an expert at evading them, which would bring up the question as to why anyone else couldn't. As someone who flies the F-15 in DCS, the only time I get any sort of spike in heart rate is if I see another F-15 on RWR, or if I'm outnumbered at all. I don't press bad situations (normally). In no way should you let pilot skill become involved in air combat, if you have you're not pressing your advantage, and you're making mistakes.

Except a Flanker simply isn't equipped to defeat an Eagle BVR. Let's say missiles work well and you can hit people at 30 miles with the ER and AMRAAM, the Flanker will still lose that fight, meaning you'd have to get creative to win. No one strategy will always work, you just have to out smart your opponent. The MiG-21 is much more underpowered than the flanker and people still do well on the 104th by being creative. I flew it all last year and had success flying in ways Id have never flown other aircraft, but I had no choice.

The only advantages the Sukhoi has over an Eagle is IRST, and WVR dogfighting, all of which require surviving BVR, which is the fundamental reason the Eagle was built.