VIMANAMAN

And who's fault is that :lol: :thumbup: This is very encouraging to read - I believed it was a D-9 but never fully trust all stuff online - Nice one :thumbup:

This site has one of the best photos (series of photos) I've seen so far of an original A/F series machine, clearly with an all metal A-frame - I tried to post one of these previously but it didn't work...? So here's a link - http://www.milavnarc.com/focke-wulf_fw_190_photo_set_1.html#! The only better pictures I've seen of an original machine are of yellow 10, the D13 machine. Yellow 10 would serve as an excellent modelling / texturing reference for the A-frame (IMO). And it's still a D series machine :) But will try to find better info / images.

EDIT - the embedded images have largely crapped out ?? Worked when I tested? Anyway will sort ASAP. for the moment will make do with the links, shame as some very clearly demonstrate the point... Is the D9 canopy A-frame all metal construction or does it have a wooden ‘mating plate’? I decided to (try and) find out for sure - simples - just find another example... We all know there are very few D9's in existence. I thought just two, but apparently there’s supposed to be four, but I found 5, at which point it got a bit interesting… But it does seem there are only two that are pretty much complete & original. I wanted to check them all out, and thought I'd share some of the interesting stuff , I think so anyway :), I found... The first complete one (more or less) - http://daedalus-berlin.de/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dblogsection%26 W.Nr 210968 - In the Luftwaffe Museum, Berlin, being restored, after being at the bottom of a (fresh water) lake for 65 odd years. It doesn't help in this matter from what I can see. Great project though! Remarkably well preserved considering, it has paint and all. But if there was wood it would have rotted I guess? [image not working see link] 210968 upon recovery - restoration now quite advanced – if interested see link. The second complete one W.Nr 601088 – On loan to the USAF Museum, from the Smithsonian – the one with the wooden batten / mating plate on the canopy A-frame – which still looks very out of place to me...? http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19600319000 “Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-9 W.Nr. 601088 was attached to Stab.IV./JG3 at Plenzrau in Northern Germany. At the end of hostilities, this aircraft was surrendered to the RAF at Flensberg. When W.Nr. 601088 was shipped to the United States as a war prize, it was accidentally matched with the wings from a Fw 190D-13 ("Yellow 10", W.Nr. 836017). Although the wings of the D-9 and the D-13 were ostensibly similar, the shell ejector chute arrangement and other significant details were quite different. The Dora arrived at Wright Field around August 1946 and was later transferred to the National Air and Space Museum's facility at Silver Hill in Washington. This aircraft has been on loan to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio since 1975.” Quote from above website. [image not working see link image 2 - why aren't the images working - this one is important] Late war construction maybe – still finding it hard to believe this was production standard. The following examples don’t help much / at all - W.Nr 990003 - which came out of the modern Flugwerks workshops and described as Fw190D-9/N "12-preto" (WNr.210079) – I’m pretty sure it’s a new build airframe and just painted as 210079. It has an Allison V12 engine (nice, none the less). http://www.pozefilm.de/fw190.html [image not working - despite testing] The best cockpit image of 990003 I can find. This one and the following one are interesting, and confusing, in equal measure - W.Nr 990006 – Also built / re-built by Flugwerks - Painted as? Or, using the remains of… (pretty sure it’s just painted as) Fw190D-9 original “3-branco” (WNr.210102). This has a Jumo 213 engine though. http://www.pozefilm.de/fw190.html Note - Can’t find anything more about this airframe – apart from vague information that it may have become 400616!? Which would explain the lack of info and my confusion over the total numbers of D9’s in existence. [image not working, see link...] Best image I can find! W.Nr 400616 – which appears to have the wooden A- frame plate! I can’t find any decent photos of the cockpit area again! But there’s this short vid… See 30 secs in. Sold 7-8-14 – sales info… - ‘’This aircraft has been restored to static condition. FW 190 D9 WNr. 400616, formerly flown by Uffz. Koch of the famous JG 54 “Greenhearts”. This is one out of only two surviving FW 190 D9 worldwide with authentic serial number and battle history. The aircraft even features the original Jumo 213A previously used on this Serial number.” Quote from the sales agent. http://www.sandyair.com/index.php?page=fw-190-d-9-weisse-16 A ‘12’O’clock high’ forum contributor – “The fuselage and tail are 100% flugwerk Fw190A series. Most likely part of the wing structure is also Flugwerk. I had photos of this bird …, and can confirm without a doubt that the fuealage and tail are Flugwerk. This is due to errors made by Flugwerk during production, that are common on all models (and seen in the photos). The angle of the antenna mast on the tail, for example. The rest was added (cowling, engine, etc.) to make it look D9. 100% started as a Flugwerk A model.” So obviously very unclear, at best. I can't find decent images of this (apart from see video above). Conclusion - D-9’s existing airframes – from a quick but semi-detailed look at this… There seem to be only two 100% original FW190 D9 examples in existence – W.Nr 210968 - originally in moderately poor shape, recovered from a lake bed. Original A-frame construction unclear, and if there was wood there it may have rotted away. W.Nr 601088 recovered fully intact from the western front in 1945, with the very curious wooden canopy ‘mating plate’. I think these below can be ignored from the A-frame construction point of view - W.Nr 400616 / 990006, the same airframe? The fact that W.Nr 400616, has the same wooden canopy ‘mating plate’, according to the You Tube clip, as 601088 is confusing to say the least. It’s not airworthy and is a little controversial from what I’ve read. I’m not saying it is… but it might be a Flugwerk new build, with some original components used? Whatever the case, it’s certainly been very extensively restored / re-built, whichever. The A-frame construction might accidentally have ended up looking like the only other complete example in existence, because again it was the only reference? W.Nr 990003, which is, I believe is an acknowledged new build – which doesn’t really prove anything. Obviously then that leaves exactly one, good condition, complete & original D9 airframe informing us about the A-frame construction. Far from ideal when you remember that this airframe was re-reassembled after the war, with the wrong wings. Eventually, swapped back in 2001. Some Jumo 'porn' here...:) When they refitted the right wings... http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/fw190d9enginereferencebg_1.htm I think it’s possible that the wooden plate is some kind of ‘shipping lock’ or ‘storage device’. This could easily have become a permanent addition to a static exhibit, after the boffins had finished with it? I’m guessing here obviously. The thing I can’t get around is that the A and F series together with the only remaining D13 were all metal A-frame construction – why would an un-pressurised D9 be any different? [image not working - will sort this out as this image is a crystal clear example of all metal construction!!!] Above – Veteran - originally A7 W.Nr 640 069, converted during the war to F8 W.Nr 931 994 Above – original A3 (or A1) unknown W.Nr. [ATTACH]104029[/ATTACH] Above – (attachment) Original D13, Yellow 10, W.Nr 836017 (described as essentially in airworthy condition, but not being flown as it’s the only example of it’s type). So we’re back where we started – If we want to be sure whether the wooden mating plate is or isn't part of the aircraft - it just leaves period photography… & plans. There’s lots of info saying that this aircraft - Gerhard Barkhorn’s FW190 ‘Cristl’ of JG6, is a D9. http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190D/Fw-190D-JG6-(5-+-Barkhorn/pages/5-Luftwaffe-pilot-Major-Gerhard-Barkhorn-03.html http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG6/Info-JG6.htm The slender A-frame with the hole / recess, centre top, corresponds very well with the D13 A-frame. I’m pretty confident that this D9 canopy A-frame is the same, or very similar construction to the A/F’s and D13. But I can’t prove it! …yet :D EDIT - the embedded images have largely crapped out ?? Worked when I tested? Anyway will sort ASAP.

I have to say I fully agree - I think it's some kind of transport or storage protective thing, and definitely not part of the original aircraft - or it might be as you said previously, a spacer because the canopy doesn't fit properly. Maybe it's the wrong canopy, it had the wrong wings until relatively recently :) as you sound like you'll know already. But yeah I think you're absolutely right. It would be a real shame if this isn't corrected, such a great module as it is. But it is hardly surprising the ED modellers got this wrong - I even found an D9 aircraft (restored / new build using some original components?) where, in my opinion, they've made the same mistake. I've been looking at this all day today and have been preparing a rather long and complicated post...:lol:

Is the D9 canopy A-frame all metal construction or does it have a wooden ‘mating plate’? working...

testing... Is the D9 canopy A-frame all metal construction or does it have a wooden ‘mating plate’? I decided to (try and) find out for sure - simples - just find another example... We all know there are very few D9's in existence. I thought just two, but apparently there’s supposed to be four, but I found 5, at which point it got a bit interesting… But it does seem there are only two that are pretty much complete & original. I wanted to check them all out, and thought I'd share some of interesting stuff , I think so anyway :), I found... The first complete one (more or less) - http://daedalus-berlin.de/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dblogsection%26 W.Nr 210968 - In the Luftwaffe Museum, Berlin, being restored, after being at the bottom of a (fresh water) lake for 65 odd years. It doesn't help in this matter from what I can see. Great project though! Remarkably well preserved considering, it has paint and all. But if there was wood it would have rotted I guess? 210968 upon recovery - restoration now quite advanced – if interested see link. The second complete one W.Nr 601088 – On loan to the USAF Museum, from the Smithsonian – the one with the wooden batten / mating plate on the canopy A-frame – which still looks very out of place to me...? http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19600319000 “Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-9 W.Nr. 601088 was attached to Stab.IV./JG3 at Plenzrau in Northern Germany. At the end of hostilities, this aircraft was surrendered to the RAF at Flensberg. When W.Nr. 601088 was shipped to the United States as a war prize, it was accidentally matched with the wings from a Fw 190D-13 ("Yellow 10", W.Nr. 836017). Although the wings of the D-9 and the D-13 were ostensibly similar, the shell ejector chute arrangement and other significant details were quite different. The Dora arrived at Wright Field around August 1946 and was later transferred to the National Air and Space Museum's facility at Silver Hill in Washington. This aircraft has been on loan to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio since 1975.” Quote from above website. Late war construction maybe – still finding it hard to believe this was production standard. The following examples don’t help much / at all - W.Nr 990003 - which came out of the modern Flugwerks workshops and described as Fw190D-9/N "12-preto" (WNr.210079) – I’m pretty sure it’s a new build airframe and just painted as 210079. It has an Allison V12 engine (nice, none the less). http://www.pozefilm.de/fw190.html The best cockpit image of 990003 I can find. This one and the following one are interesting, and confusing, in equal measure - W.Nr 990006 – Also built / re-built by Flugwerks - Painted as? Or, using the remains of… (pretty sure it’s just painted as) Fw190D-9 original “3-branco” (WNr.210102). This has a Jumo 213 engine though. http://www.pozefilm.de/fw190.html Note - Can’t find anything more about this airframe – apart from vague information that it may have become 400616!? Which would explain the lack of info and my confusion over the total numbers of D9’s in existence. Best image I can find! W.Nr 400616 – which appears to have the wooden A- frame plate! I can’t find any decent photos of the cockpit area again! But there’s this short vid… See 30 secs in. Sold 7-8-14 – sales info… - ‘’This aircraft has been restored to static condition. FW 190 D9 WNr. 400616, formerly flown by Uffz. Koch of the famous JG 54 “Greenhearts”. This is one out of only two surviving FW 190 D9 worldwide with authentic serial number and battle history. The aircraft even features the original Jumo 213A previously used on this Serial number.” Quote from the sales agent. http://www.sandyair.com/index.php?page=fw-190-d-9-weisse-16 A ‘12’O’clock high’ forum contributor – “The fuselage and tail are 100% flugwerk Fw190A series. Most likely part of the wing structure is also Flugwerk. I had photos of this bird …, and can confirm without a doubt that the fuealage and tail are Flugwerk. This is due to errors made by Flugwerk during production, that are common on all models (and seen in the photos). The angle of the antenna mast on the tail, for example. The rest was added (cowling, engine, etc.) to make it look D9. 100% started as a Flugwerk A model.” So obviously very unclear, at best. I can't find decent images of this (apart from see video above). Conclusion - D-9’s existing airframes – from a quick but semi-detailed look at this… There seem to be only two 100% original FW190 D9 examples in existence – W.Nr 210968 - originally in moderately poor shape, recovered from a lake bed. Original A-frame construction unclear, and if there was wood there it may have rotted away. W.Nr 601088 recovered fully intact from the western front in 1945, with the very curious wooden canopy ‘mating plate’. I think these below can be ignored from the A-frame construction point of view - W.Nr 400616 / 990006, the same airframe? The fact that W.Nr 400616, has the same wooden canopy ‘mating plate’, according to the You Tube clip, as 601088 is confusing to say the least. It’s not airworthy and is a little controversial from what I’ve read. I’m not saying it is… but it might be a Flugwerk new build, with some original components used? Whatever the case, it’s certainly been very extensively restored / re-built, whichever. The A-frame construction might accidentally have ended up looking like the only other complete example in existence, because again it was the only reference? W.Nr 990003, which is, I believe is an acknowledged new build – which doesn’t really prove anything. Obviously then that leaves exactly one, good condition, complete & original D9 airframe informing us about the A-frame construction. Far from ideal when you remember that this airframe was re-reassembled after the war, with the wrong wings. Eventually, swapped back in 2001. Some Jumo 'porn' here...:) When they refitted the right wings... http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/fw190d9enginereferencebg_1.htm I think it’s possible that the wooden plate is some kind of ‘shipping lock’ or ‘storage device’. This could easily have become a permanent addition to a static exhibit, after the boffins had finished with it? I’m guessing here obviously. The thing I can’t get around is that the A and F series together with the only remaining D13 were all metal A-frame construction – why would an un-pressurised D9 be any different? Above – Veteran - originally A7 W.Nr 640 069, converted during the war to F8 W.Nr 931 994 Above – original A3 (or A1) unknown W.Nr. [ATTACH]104029[/ATTACH] Above – (attachment) Original D13, Yellow 10, W.Nr 836017 (described as essentially in airworthy condition, but not being flown as it’s the only example of it’s type). So we’re back where we started – If we want to be sure whether the wooden mating plate is or isn't part of the aircraft - it just leaves period photography… & plans. There’s lots of info saying that this aircraft - Gerhard Barkhorn’s FW190 ‘Cristl’ of JG6, is a D9. http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190D/Fw-190D-JG6-(5-+-Barkhorn/pages/5-Luftwaffe-pilot-Major-Gerhard-Barkhorn-03.html http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG6/Info-JG6.htm The slender A-frame with the hole / recess centre top corresponds very well with the D13 A-frame. I’m pretty confident that this D9 canopy A-frame is the same, or very similar construction to the A/F’s and D13. But I can’t prove it! …yet :D

Not very helpful Nedum! I don't think rrohde meant that as a finished example of his work. If you have any interest in this thread, apart from being negative, I could use some help finding period photographs of D9's cockpit structure - specifically from the rear - perhaps you could help?

Rrohde your're a man of many talents! - nice one, seriously man, nice work there - yes that's pretty much as I envisage the actual production version of the D9. Sorry for the delayed reply. But we ought to present as much good 'evidence' as pos for ED to look at, as well, so I'm off looking for more photo's of current & period 190's to see what I can see.

You do something else for a bit, then you look again, and voila... http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=104067&stc=1&d=1409872698 Not totally conclusive by any means but 1940's photography seldom is... This is a photo of Major Gerhard Barkhorn Commander of JG6 in a FW190D9 (looks pretty clear to me).

I'm no WWII Luftwaffe expert and don't pretend to be one... But I've spent many hours today trying to find good period photos of the D9 cockpit A-frame (from the rear), and I haven't found anything conclusive... Detailed info on the D9 is extremely sparse. This makes me think even more that a referencing error has been made (hardly surprisingly). But my sense is, from what I've been looking at is that until the pressurised cockpit came along with the T152, the A-Frame design stayed pretty much the same (if not exactly the same) despite the engine changes, etc between the A's, C's and D's... (Illustrations not conclusive as first two images are both the A-8 version & then the museum piece with the wooden baton) I'll keep trying to find a nugget. http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=104063&stc=1&d=1409867275 I'm all ears to anyone with more knowledge than me, but it looks like it should be an all metal construction to me.

Hey Kodoss - sounds like good data you have there! Is there any chance you could upload that somehow, to here, so ED can have a look at it? Sounds like the full story you've got there... maybe? To me at least something seems odd. Thanks

No offence (really) but that's besides the point.:D I was just hoping we could objectively look at what the real D9 cockpit was made of. S!

Absolutely - I could do it meself I'm sure, but while we're in open beta... S!

This has been troubling me a tad... Hey Fox any chance you could scan a photo or two for us? Anyone else think the wooden A-frame looks out of place - I know ED will have done there home work, as always, but what with the 'classification curtain' restricting data for anything newish, and the simple rarity of data restricting information for any older projects... it would be not impossible for mistakes due to dodgy restorations, etc, to happen? From my research - the A series all had metal A-Frames, as did models later than the D9's? A series cockpit. D13 series cockpit. I don't want to cause work for people but seems Fox MAY have a point? Any WWII Luftwaffe experts out there?

Depends... is it AI or human controlled :D I'm kidding, Love the AI! I guess it could fly 'straight' with maybe ballast and trim - All things being equal it would spin in, no?

Surely the main reason is as YO-YO said - for times when you can anticipate high temperatures i.e. T/O and combat. (when the auto system can't react as fast as you'd like and is always going to be 'behind the curve'). And certainly useful in emergencies. Would indeed be interesting to know if / when they return to automatic, after manual operation. Will test as well, if anyone gets there first let us know.

Hi Jcomm, Last I heard (some time ago now), was that it is simulated, but not 'visualised', so you can expect some fun playing with that stuff :) I really don't know to what extent though. Is it me or do the moderators seem busy - I'm seeing that as something cool coming :) Have fun!

I forgot to mention I thought I had... The above track was just a quick training mission where I was practising dive bombing a AAA site and surprise surprise I got wanged - leading to an oil leak - nice texture on the under side of the engine cowl... by the way. it would be great if on triggering an oil leak, as well as the usual engine management problems... the aircraft actually started trailing smoke / oil vapour (i.e. the exhaust effect). Great module!

Bump... So has anyone else seen this before - I've stalled and dropped the plane from a metre or two before and not seen this - I've done my share of bouncing (straight), ...& bouncing (not so straight)... busting the wing off, you name it... but never had (or maybe never noticed) this before? The landing was poor as floated, slow & low (but ended up quite right sided and not straight touch down) ...but really quite low vertical speed! I mean I like it, variation of failures is a good thing, just wish the tail wheel had a failure animation - but it's good! Don't get me wrong - maybe it's in the works already? http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=103830&stc=1&d=1409512638 It would be cool if a Moderator or someone from Ed could let me know what they think as well, and if it needs to be reported as missing an animation, or something else. Thanks.

Tail wheel collapse simulated, but animation missing? I'm not sure if this is battle damage or me landing poorly i.e with side-slip? I took some hits from a ZU-23 AAA site and was RTB with oil pressure problems. But the tail wheel sinks into the tarmac rather than into the fuselage. On the post flight debrief: It's listed 2 seconds after landing as a tail wheel lock failure. http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=103783&stc=1&d=1409441474 FW190 ground attack practise1.trk

Someone on these forums (can't remember who) said when you save a track and replay it for the first time - don't change any parameters at all i.e. speed / camera, just let it run. Then save a copy and only play with the copy - it seems a lot more reliable for me anways - doing it that way. Plus you've always got the original. And yeah updates nearly always break track files.

yeah I would guess you're right but we're only guessing. It affects the real world view from the front of the FW190 D9 - that's all I need to know.

Probably cost of development / end user performance would make this not worth it... But it could be 'fudged' I guess to just work in the vertical axis - solving the problem... I know DCS don't do 'fudging'... :)

Yeah - maybe it is workable - I really don't know :) - it would be great if it was... even a compromise solution would be great if it eliminated that last, probably less than 1 degree of visibility over the nose. But I honestly don't know if its possible. One advantage performance wise is that the Dora doesn't have mirrors (or a TGP :megalol:), so there's no double / triple whammy... :) Anyway cheers for the interest in the idea. And I love the Dora as it is but any improvements along these lines would be great.

Yeah realistically this is what I'm thinking... but you know, I was just thinking out load, just throwing it out there so to speak. I'd forgotten about the mirrors as well as the TGP! But yeah - You see a lot of people flying in vids with their mirrors off...