BitMaster
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Okay, I have found F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC in QVL,
So I have decided to spend 50 more, Thank You for sharing all these info.
Wise move, you won't regret it :thumbup:
Welcome to the Fast Mover Club :joystick:
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One thing to add from Buildzoid.
He said, if you buy 3000 or 3200 B-die you LIKELY get a lower end binning of b-die as they usually top out much higher and qualify for at least 3600 or better.
That is why I would not buy B-die based modules with 3000 or 3200 unless I had to.
B-die is not B-die, so to speak, they come binned, some are better and some are worse according to Buildzoid.
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Both are great, I run Corsair Vengeance in this DCS rig and run Gskill in my sons game rig, both 3600CL16-16-16-38-2t, both B-die.
I would buy the Gskill if neither one is in QVL...BUT check which of them is possibly in the QVL, get that one. Look at the motherboards download page for the QVL and study it, that saves some grey hair, that's the best advice in this case.
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I dont think there is a big difference, maybe 2-4max fps, is my personal guess. As long as the timings are not too bad a 3200 is still great. I have to run my 3600CL16 at 3000 or my board goes nuts with 4 modules and I dont have a negative side effect, but it's Intel. The only good thing, I get them down to CL14-14-14-34 at 3000 so I could minimize the negative impact.
What counts is your latency, which you can measure with Aida64 for example
I personally would go with the 3600 CL16 and tune it further down to like 3600CL14-14-14-34 if possible, maybe needs a lil higher voltage but a good Samsung B-Die could possibly do it.
For me, that was worth 50 bucks. Look at it as an insurance. Maybe not the best decision if you then lack 50$ somewhere else, then better take the 3200 kit.
To your math:
If you want and need 16ms Frametime you need 16.000ms. Having 16.080 would be a miss and cause stutter. Either it hits it ON THE SPOT ( VSYNC,GSYNC etc. ) or it's a miss. When the door is closed, it's closed, no matter if you are 20ns late or 20 days, closed is closed, there is no mercy and no cheating in Frametime allowance.
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in Jim Keller we trust.
my AMD Shares have gone from $2.35~ to over $50 each at some points, and settling in the $45-$50 Range.
:thumbup:
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Maybe OT but back in the days when I flew 90" R/C helicopters with .61cu 2-Stroke engines the hardest part in tuning the mechanics wasn't the washplate linkage or tail rotor, it was tuning the carburator so that your RPM would not decrease or increase but stay as stable as it can be when you worked either the collective or cyclic controls, or tailrotor to yaw, all of those feed or get fed from the main engine and change the load on the engine shaft. You can draw parallels between a .61 1.6BHP 2-Stroke and a full size RL turbine, the goal remains the same, keep the RPM on the rotor stable to avoid another force to change your attitude.
Things got easier when RPM-governors got introduced in the late 90's but it wasn't the sole solution, you still needed to obey the law of not changing things to quickly. The carb can open or close in a fraction of a second but the engine cannot response faster as it can, no matter how fast you open or close the carb, you still needed to move it wisely to avoid sudden change of attidude, or worse, a stalling engine. In times of BL-Motors and LiPo batteries this has changed, with 10x or more of the power available compared to when I started you can slam the cyclic and collective as fast as you can and the shaft will maintain it's RPM, no wonder...with 15kW compared to my mere 1.2ish kW's back then.
Apperently, RL turbines are nowhere near the capabilities and reaction time of BL-Motors fed by LiPo batteries at 300Ampere and the bigger the mass ( The Mi-8 is a flying Milk Truck ) the slower you have to work the controls to avoid accidents.
If you haven't seen R/C helicopters of the precent years doing acrobatics, go YT and do it, it's an eye opener what helicopters can do, if mass and power are in a certain relation, granted you have sharp skills, eagles eye and some guts to risk a few grand.
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Check the YT channel by Buildzoid called "Actual Hardcore Overclocking". There are spreadsheets in the videos that show you what the difference is, it's latency. I guess it's around 3-5ns difference, like 64ns vs. 68ns or similar. Good latency for AMD is below 70ns, bad latency is over 75 towards 80 or worse.
It may pay a small dividend when you fly VR but it will be small, tho I would try to get the 3600 CL16 and oc it down to 3600 CL 14, that is about as good as you can get.
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If that is true, it's gonna pass Intel in 3rd gear and just zoom away.
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Post some fps before and after.
There are threads in here that could use that info pretty well !
BTW, what's the cooler ? Some have pushed the KS to 5.4G stable with DIY loops. Most do 5.3G with a decent AIO.
Wow ! :D:pilotfly::thumbup:
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:thumbup: You're the man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How on earth do you always find those clips ?
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D4niel,
I am utmost sure, that if I or somebody else with similar settings would change the board and CPU to accommodate an outdated AMD CPU the fps would severely suffer at those settings, online, with TS, SRS, TacView, Afterburner and maybe some other goodies running aside ( like VR ! ).
One drawback is DDR3, which you cannot overcome. The graphics would suffer as the CPU very likely couldnt feed the GPU at Ultimate Viewing Distance, Shadows and what not else that hammers on the CPU.
As Sn8ke_iis said, use the Search function and go back in time and read it up. You just can't void all those testimonials from people in here that have made that experience already.
In order to make your test valid, you should also include a 5GHz Intel 7th gen or newer, a AMD Ryzen 2nd or 3rd gen with fast clock speed and throw in a 1080, 1080ti or best, a 2080ti.
No one says you cannot play with such an old AMD. All we say with confidence is that it can run a LOT better with a faster CPU & Platform, given a 2080ti as the cornerstone as what to feed.
A R9.-390 GPU is easier to feed and saturate than a 5700XT, 1080ti or faster GPU.
Going the SLI way is pretty tough, it's not supported and may work but also throw up lots of problems. With Crossfire, which is even more rare to find, you have less ressources to pull wisdom from. SkateZilla afaik used to crossfire his AMD GPU's and it seemed to work. Given a lot patience, knowledge and CHEAP ELECTRICITY it may work under certain conditions.
I would never recommend CF to someone, nor would I recommend SLI. It's just borderline and may not work as intended.
I am not sure if I understand that correctly, 3 x R9-390, but I dont think you'd cf 3x R9's, that would be a waste of time and energy as it never scales 100%-100%-100%, the 3rd card is more or less useless unless you need some serious heating and have a board that can run 16-16-8. There are just too many things that make this look beyond reasonable means.
Do your tests, but to be fair, throw in a decent rig and highish settings to compare. I am sure you will see what we try to say.
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I run a 1600 and 2600 in the office and love both, very reliable, easy to maintain, utmost solid builds. I know there are faster CPU's out there but for the current price of a Ryzen 2600 its hard to build a better and upgradable system with the option of also overclocking. It may not be top priority now to oc but the OP may opt in for that once the system was up and running and he gets the feeling for being his own admin and the master of his own luck, aka performance.
I see the point in going straight to 32GB, if money allows, I'd rather have the cheapest tower but 32GB than a nice tower and 16GB, what matters here is him having a decent DCS rig and not a shiny bling bling case with LED and USB-C front outlet. I think most could agree.
Abr, how much knowledge do you have about PC's and HOW MUCH TIME do you have that you could spend on some YT videos that would show you how things come together. You can order the board with an inserted CPU or even all put together with the stuff that you choose. Sure, that would add 50-100$ that you could save if you invest some time and effort to get to know the essentials. I would pay off tgroughout your future time with PC's. It's fairly hard to run a decent rig and not to dare to open the lid and work the components. I myself have to take my 1k€ GPU apart and redo the thermal compound as it sky rockets towards 65°C, heck...I hate it but I will do it in a quiet hour with some patience and a locked door after 8pm. SO can you, it's no secret how to put a board in a case, 6 -9 screws, add the PSU, 4 screws, plug in the cables, 24pin and 8 pin, plug in the CPU as shown in the manual, mount the cooler with 4 screws, add the RAM modules with gentle force, plug in the GPU and hook up the power for it too, another 8 pin and maybe also a 6pin, snug in the SSD NVMe card, 1 screw...and fire it off. As you see, it's not a myriad of things, it's a finite amount of screws and cables, some reading must be done but 1 weekend should be enough and we are always here to help you though. Have a smartphone ready to take some pics and post them with your current rig and we can see things and guide you. YOu are not the 1st and not the last one we have helped with this.
dare it, if we can do it, you can do it too, unless you really say, I have 2 left hands and can't tell a screwdriver from a hammer, then ..yes, it might not be for you. But if you know the tools in a toolbox, have some gentle fingers and know when to apply force and when not, it's no miracle.
For 800 you can get there with a DIY but not with a prebuild HP or Dell, that is very clear.
YOu could order it BTO if the cost is 50-75$ and skip a DVD, mouse and keyboard to save every penny you can. Might even use your old case ( which would somehow void contacting us, unless you'd use the smartphone for that ). YOu get the idea...what do you think ?
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There is some sort of DX11 Multi Core usage tied into using DCS afaik. Afaik Dx11 in terms of DCS uses "up to 2" cores, so that would make 4 cores being tied into DCS processing the visiual output. It has been explained by SkateZilla in some thread, also stating that DX11 does a very poor job with that multithreading and core usage, so basically it still comes down to 1+1 for DCS.
TaskManager, Afterburner and other monitoring software have 2 major drawbacks, first one is that they themselves need CPU power to process, the slower your clock and the less cores you have the more you render the outcome useless, a little bit of Heisenberg there.
The second thing is resolution of CPU monitoring. The CPU's switch between cores faster than you can monitor them, even with the fastest CPUs out there. If your polling is 1sec it's more or less useless as it switches in nanoseconds, so even going up to 1000 pollings per second you would still fall behind but your Monitoring App would need considerable CPU-time to make that happen, which throws us back to my 1st concern.
The best is to trust the devs in this matter as they know the source code and know what is actually going on under the hood. We as end users have simply no means to measure and testify.
I highly doubt that an antique AMD Phenom from 10 years ago does a decent job in DCS, not even at 6, 7 or 8 GHz under LN cooling.
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I wouldnt go that route tbh.
What comes to my mind was a AMD based system, B-450 Board, a 2nd gen Ryzen 2600, 16GB ( !!!) 3200MHz, 512GB SSD ( 256 is too small ), some cheap tower and a mediocrePSU ( I dont like to recommend these but money is a big issue here ). Sink all the rest in a GPU.
You can get that CPU for little money, same with the board, take any 3000-3200MHz 16GB kit, a tower for 45$ and a PSU for 75$,
We can elaborate this deeper if you can build it yourself. You could upgrade the CPU later on, a B-450 is compatible to the newest Ryzen. You must cut corners to achieve a full build with 800$. 500$ is not enough unless you get one used as a fair & great deal.
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TARGET does all that too. Maybe something is getting lost in translation here, I can barely code "Hello World" in C++. The GUI generates the code for you. There's no coding necessary. There's no way I would be able to do that without the GUI. The user interface makes it all point and click. Easy peasy. It even gives you a 3D model of the controller and you just click on the button you want to assign. Much better than the wall of text in the DCS speadsheet. If I can do it, anybody can do it. I'm into hardware and benchmarking, I'm not a coder by any stretch of the imagination. I can't even read the text scripts you guys keep posting. Looks like Ancient Greek to me.
One thing I noticed when I was working through your F-16 script in Foxy is that you went through a lot of trouble to emulate key presses for a lot functions that were already in DCS as joystick buttons. I'm not sure about FOXY, but TARGET can emulate all 32 joystick buttons and the 8 way hat. The DCS developers did a fantastic job of mapping all the joystick functions already and you were kind of reinventing the wheel. I just emulated the joystick buttons as typical press and releases like the default and it worked great. I did steal your idea for mapping the landing gear lever as a layer under the speedbrake switch and it worked great. Just an FYI.
The P-51 was among my initial DCS purchases years ago and I know that bird pretty well and love it but having your layout in front of me makes it easier for me to get all the ( a few only tbh ) controls bind to my Hotas.
Off topic, many say its hard to take off in her, I don't, dial in 5.5° right rudder and go full bore, she tracks like a train down the strip, with full aft tank and extra tanks on the wings :joystick:
I thought I had time over the days to get into TGui but family kept me busy, all 6 kids were in, big fest etc... it's #1 on my list to get back into Hotas programming and having a little Intro makes it that much easier, like the tip that I now have to work DCS as well to tell it Ia m using TG...I thought something like that must be the reason why I had no stick..LoL.
I stopped at that point a few days ago due to time constraints but such tips make it so much easier to get into it. Thanks mate ! :pilotfly:
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Driving sims ????
I got CMR Rally and the Baumholder track is 10km from where I live, kinda Home Run for me.
I pushed the metal to the floor and on the first bend, 90° Right, I threw up so to speak, a clear no go for me. That was the most disturbing VR experience I ever had, CMR Rally in VR.
Havent put it up yet as I am fighting my way through the Hornet in A2A combat, TWS and stuff and fight with the MFD more than with the enemy LoL.
Time is my biggest hurdle tbh, very little time at hand and DCS eats hours like crazy if you dig into it.
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If it's only pocket money, heck why not ? Sell your old 1080ti and gain some extra fps.
Will it solve all your FPS issues ? No, certainly not but it's another step towards your goal.
Again, this answer is only valid if you pay if with your hobby cash and won't have to suffer elsewhere.
If the price is a significant cut in your monthly budget then my answer would be NO, it's not worth it.
Kind of biased here, it's a "how much money can you sink for a hobby"
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I remember having the same issue some time ago. Haven't tried in a while as ever since I take the "in air " start.
Would need to check when I have the time, that's the issue..
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Hey Abr.
ideal and affordable don't run together by definition, there is a problem.
For CPU you can come by with an Intel 9600k, AMD 3600 or any bigger CPU from Intel and AMD. ideal was a AMD 3700X or Intel 9900k, both with watercooling.
Boards for those run anywhere from 100€ upwards, higher priced boards offer more features and usually last longer.
Multiplayer needs 32GB RAM
GPU wise, there you could save money if you dont need all the bells and whistles there are.
A AMD 5700XT is maybe the best bang for the buck with good to very good performance at FullHD and WQHD. For 4K and VR you need something bigger and much more expensive.
A 5700XT is around 400€ +/- depending on your choice and where you live.
SSD is mandatory
Controls are your choice, anywhere from 50€ to 1000€+.
Tell us your budget and what you already have. Then you will get better answers.
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:thumbup:
Mind the sheep :D
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That's one of my favorite features. I've lost count of how many hours of fun time I've lost in CLOD and DCS due to unplugging controllers, Windows device issues, or unknowingly deleting the .cfg file.
I have a standard template that I use for all aircraft with consistent muscle memory for views, comms, zoom, TIR/VR recenter, etc. When I try out a new module, I can just hop in and fly without having to reassign in the DCS spreadsheet. You only have to learn one GUI and it works with all games and sims. The process of assigning a unique profile for a new module really aids the learning process. I retain it better than RTFM. Easy to back up and share as well.
The only issue I've had with Target is having to make sure USB power saving features are turned off in BIOS and the registry. Otherwise the script can think the device is unplugged and kick back an error. The error codes usually show up in a search engine.
OK, you got me messing around with it, I actually strted to copy your Rad-Oil switch... it worked..and then I found out my Stick didn't work...ahhh...and the trial & error starts.
Gonna give a shot tonight, maybe 3-6h LOL....
I do remember that Foxy couldnt do a few things you could do with a "simple" text file, but that is sooo long ago I dont recall exactly what it was. I do know that most of my squad mates used my template... LONG AGO.
Door bell.... laters
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I think I'll get mine out again as well and see what my nausea does, Immersion in VR is just a killer experience.
:pilotfly:
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What I really miss is the simplicity of .txt file grogramming like back in the days for F22 & TQS.
It was superior to what TM had to offer and also better than Foxit, more flexible and better oversight what is doing what.
I think I need to get back into it and the P-51 is a good and useful start. Yeah...that Oil cooler.
Took the Stang for a flight from Mozdok to Kutaisi 2 days ago on VA server and had a wonderful hour of relaxed flying and enjoying the beauty of DCS, the only thing that needed attention was my full rear tank ( damn nasty ) and the Oil Cooler while climbing out to 30k feet. I had a -50! Carb temp, ehhh but it worked, that is another issue LoL
The good thing for TG is that it will stay if your DCS goes nuts or overwrites settings.
Maybe over Xmas in some quiet hour.
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You need to learn and understand the logic behind the AP's and how they are ment to be used, incl. Route Mode Turn2Target Mode and how they correlate and interfere.
Once you got behind the idea of how this is ment to be used, map the buttons and switches to your HOTAS and you will be amazed how lazy the Ka-50 can be flown, how much it works in your favor.
It takes a few mind-resets to get there, we all know that, we have all been thru this initial WTF is it doing thing, haha.
Memory Speed Suggestions for Ryzen 3700x - 3200 or 3600
in PC Hardware and Related Software
Posted · Edited by BitMaster
BTW, those are SK Hynix, not B-die, but that's ok as you shouldnt overclock them beyond 3600 anyways due to the 1:1 ratio.
...just checked the QVL myself :book:
**once the rig runs perfect, you can tinker with the 16-19-19-39 and see if you can lower those with up to 1.40 volts. If they run without BSOD its even greater :)