Foka1

You are able to shoot when you have tone. Even R-3S was able t ogive you tone sometimes head on before last patch. Having tone + ability to launch DOES NOT EQUAL launched missile tracking. They shoot head on because they don't know their hardware. Launched head on R-60 or R-13M will just fly forward. With the same luck and logic you could have say that MiG-21 jockeys are able to launch their S-5 unguided rockets head on. yes they can LAUNCH them.

I remember there was a similar bug before btw so may be related

Its not an "outcry". Alpenwolf himself defined that missions will aspire to gameplay balance instead of historical realism, mainly because we don;t have enough assets in DCS for specific Cold War eras or even years. Hence stuff is rolling like that. And yes it is constant work, it is what it is. Nothing can be set once and be left for months without touching in current DCS environment I think. New people will come and resurface same issues and ask same questions, just like you asking here, it was discussed before and I was asking specifically what Alpen wants to do, historical year restriction, or seek gameplay balance, you know the rest. For myself it doesn't matter what I think about "balance outcry" etc. Guidelines were made and I'm acting and commenting here within those guidelines constructively. If I will think that I have time and resources to build something better I will just build it and launch, I won't try to persuade Alpen to bend his vision hard.

LazzySeal MiG-21 or Su-25

Gazelle versions are all separate in editor. There is clear way to do it and its easy.

Mistral has all aspect missile. Since server went rear aspect only, return R-60M then I'm fine with Mistral being on server. Rear aspect missiles don't guide to choppers very well, almost not at all. I wonder actually how AIM-9P and RB-24J guide on choppers, need to test. Also I'm not against removing KA-50's ATGMs. I'm even willing to try to let BLUE have HOT3 ATGMs while KA-50 won't have Vikhrs. But at the same time remove Mistral and add -L version and add appropriate vehicles as targets for such setup.

L-39 was literally a module for a multi-crew proof of concept. Statement that Mi-24P will be first real ED multicrew looks false. Also I bet each aircraft multi crew is different, and some things that are unique to aircraft will need new approach each time.

I'll remove ambiguity with a video then. Or you can just find me in some messaging platform and we can test together. PS Why I like when someone else do same check as well and not just asking me to prove something is that I don't believe in my methods unquestionable precision. When someone else doing same thing something else can be uncovered which I missed.

Just a polite request from me too. So you accusing me of being liar? For this test you need tacview , DCS and 15 minutes of your time max. You can do it by yourself to not waste time on discussions . PS for your convenience I'm attaching mission file. Just load it, merge with target when its flanking in front of you 90 degrees launch a missile. Check tacview afterwards 90_degrees_2KM_AGL.miz

First sane and respectful response on the data, I've seen here in a while. I would do a question back. "we only have so many options for missile/aircraft setups and are limited by what the devs are willing change/add". Indeed but why not explore all variations before deciding which setup is better? Also, can split missions on different setups, one chunk of missions runs advantageous setup for one option, and other chunk run setup with advantage for different option. I see more options, than just sit on one thing before checking every option first.

And here you are contradicting yourself. If you are not talking about ALL red pilots while responding to OVERALL statistics, that means deeds of those pilots that you are talking about (did not specify how many) are not affecting overall statistics that much. But, again in my book laughing at even single red pilot because them doesn't know something is low and shameful. Also same thing about you saying you know someone who know everything about MiG-21 systems... He is single guy and frankly thinking that everyone else on red side don't know same systems is bold. Why ALL? Because if its not all then its not an argument in discussion about overall picture. There is world exist outside yourself and your group you know. Discussing overall average picture is different from tales about slaying windmills. Beam mode that is used for shooting R-3R this way is really questionable, and its not proven that it is accurate to how 21 can use it in real life. Some people don;t use it because they want as much less bullshit in sim as possible. etc. Before judging people do a research for more than 10 minutes for god's sake.

Frankly this is so condescending and silly that I don't even know what to say. First of all you again talk out of nowhere, considering how much time it took for your response to that (10 minutes), means you didn't do research to confirm your words. If you want do some work and check tacview for how many front aspect shots were made and calculate how much it affected overall accuracy I would take you seriously. I can confirm I've seen people launch front aspect as soon as they hear tone. But I wouldn't have impudence to generalize all RED or BLUE pilots without checking how many these shots took place and how they affect overall stats. But since you proceed to just "LAUGH AT" all RED pilots, I mean this is so bad manner so I don't think anyone will take you seriously anymore. Understand please that data is BIAS free, it shows average for all pilots. And I personally believe that skill in average on both sides is close to same and I don't "LAUGH AT" any "aviators". You literally showing middle finger to good chunk of community instantly without even checking anything by yourself? People fly both sides RED and BLUE and a lot of people on cold war server are doing DCS for a long time. Of course there are couple guys who shoot as soon as they hear tone, but you need to actually check how many are those before running your mouth basically telling all RED players are trash and "your devils" are masters of the universe (formed less than 6 month ago?). This only shows your bully nature and BIAS, nothing else. Ridiculous

Again I want to remind about useless baseless discussions, and again I want to stress the importance of data and doing something but just speaking. This little research took 30 minutes: What I did. I took a tacview from fight island. This is 4 hour tacview. Then I exported events log into xls. And opened it and filtered two events: "HasBeenHitBy" (which logs event when someone got hit by a weapon). And "HasFired" (which logs event when weapon was launched). I've filtered all air to air missile shots and calculated their hit rate percentage. (means we know how many were launched and how many had hit event). Results are: RED side 22 hits R-13M 22 hits R-3S 2 hits R-60M 46 hits overall (118 launches) BLUE side 40 hits RB-24J 23 hits AIM-9P 63 hits overall (120 launches) Results per missile: R-3S (same name in tacview) 65 launches, 22 hits - 34% hit rate R-13M (R-3 in tacview) 53 launches, 22 hits - 41% hit rate AIM-9P (same name in tacview) 48 Launches, 23 hits - 48% hit rate RB-24J (ROBOT in tacview) 72 Launches, 40 hits - 55.5% hit rate From this raw data we can see how many missiles were used, what is most popular missile in mission etc. I think 8x R-60Ms somewhere on another airfield is just small fraction of whole picture. Here is archive with tacview file and excel file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1os05FSQMgihnk08mekfDlQfmSUuGqXZP/view?usp=sharing edit: R-3R is treated by tacview as R-3 (just like R-13M). So R-13M above shows combined R-13M+R-3R stats

THIS there are two types of people in this world: those who do backups, and those who don't :( Any precious photos or work related documents I have locked at custom NAS with RAID 1 they are not even at my PC at all.

You can check MiG-21 section on forums. =RAF= SkyRider asking questions about MiG-21 turn performance there. And discussion about it held there may yield some results or reveals. But if you say "having knowledge of all that freaking jet fighter specs does not make my life more comfortable", which is fine. How you even bringing it up if you don't want to do anything with this nerding over specs? In short it looks like: "I don't know about it and don't want to know, but its bad."

I can play any side for team balance if needed.

I see people jumped complaining on a certain picture with facts. I did not even said what I would deduct from that data yet, but complains followed instantly since data was posted, so I answered based on what I had in hand. On the other hand instead of presenting some evidence some people here just running their mouth in a condescending manner. You telling me to stop complain? If I would stop "complaining" pushing for fixes, your missile wouldn't even had a tone on afterburning MiG-21 right now. I'm more than 6 years (technically more than 15 but I had 3 years brake) in DCS already and it is rich to see your condescending tone comparing guys like 64th_Rage with kids, while he is being basically like a father of PvP in DCS. I'll take you seriously when I actually see data from you where you use as you said "Strong sides" of each plane, not only the most broken one at the moment. I see you in F-5 doing same Viggen can do with same coordination I will pay my respects. Shocking revelation maybe for you, but my own vision is I think KA-50 has no place in this server just like gazelle HOT3 or Mistral versions, I did not even start complaining yet but was forced, by people bullying here around with high schoolers attitude responding with assumptions, to say something. Same way MiG-21 GROM missile has no place in DCS at all. Same way MiG-21 ASP bombing regimes are questionable imho. And I'm not sure if MiG-21 beam lock should even be there in BIS version. Reality and evidence does not care about yours or mine BIAS, that is why it is only way to analyze things. I'm taking my time to think things through that is why shit just doesn't come off instantly, I do steps. First step is check envelopes and match-ups, second step would see how they can coexist. Removing something is not always an option, asymmetrical mission design is an option too. I don't see my vision as the only one that is right, that is the difference between us. I own my shit. Problem here also is that I don't see anyone doing work on trying to analyze things. Alpenwolf editing missions, I find bugs, propose fixes and point out problems with evidence. You guys ordering people around here without moving a finger to somehow document anything or academically research or explain things. PS there is a script from my friend Ciribob (yes SRS designer and one of the biggest volunteer contributors to DCS) which can actually allow to restrict MiG-21s or any other aircraft to carry only two missiles, but it to implement it one need to research how to use it. PPS oh yeah since I'm just saying my quick vision, which I don't think should be final and implemented yet at all. Huey is nowhere near Mi-8 by performance. One of the things needs to be done is average speed of Huey needs to be checked with past month tacviews and compared to average Mi-8 speed and what both can top speed at. Then I estimate that Huey FARPs should be actually closer to objective than Mi-8 parts because of their speed difference, if its not already like that. Also one more example for you about complains, right now Huey damage from excessive EGT is not as severe as couple years ago when it was implemented, I facilitated discussion in which people complained about it and evidence was gathered which ended up in Huey engine remodeling. If that wouldn't happen you wouldn't be able to push Huey like you pushing it now with cargo. You was around this community like what 8 months? It is a good community but its maybe not a good idea to start with such attitude without knowing history of thins.

That is a better approach to a discussion in my opinion, as a player you can do whatever you want with it, use it to update your knowledge for instance. Or to understand how it affects gameplay. I do not have a lot of free time otherwise I would do such analysis instantly when I see things brewing. So sometime when I have insomnia I do things like that or like fixing shit like EWR etc. This is just my first step in something I wanted to do for some time already, and it is important information for understanding why gameplay is shaping in a certain way. Basically this demonstrates how rear aspect change looks like from performance data point of view. I don't like to run my mouth before I will look at data and think about it more. But I certainly can outline how this affect things, and what I would do with it, a bit later when I have time if you want. In short what I can see now is that missile is over-performing all analogs available on current server setup by a considerable margin. Which was actually surprise for me. I was expecting it to not adhere to analogs but not to such extent so it would pull similar numbers to AIM-9X. How you feel about it? You don't care? What if it would be other way around? RB-24J would be like R-13M1 and R-13M1 would pull 20 G out of rail like R-73? Oh wait, you already was on other side and probably felt that things are not easy there? I'm genuinely interested why you are not seeing obvious thing here. I approach it from process and gameplay optimization point of view. There is a difference between certain games for instance like ARMA and CS GO, or War Thunder and DCS. And difference between people. If you are not capable to wear other man's shoes, why you asking others to wear yours? PS this is weekend, ED has weekends too. I can't report it to non working ED right now. But I will pass it where I can. PPS This is not ED missile so report should not be to ED I think.

Since you are feeling free to order me what to do. I feel free to at least ask you to answer some questions first. Certain crowd goes in and ask for something to be changed. In lieu of that match-up that was on a certain server for a long time is changed. Changes done without verifying data from sim. No one moved a finger or checked facts before doing something, and facts are DCS is not accurate in these old weapons to real life. And this is what people generally getting out of sight. Matchup we get now: F-5 vs MiG-21 A-10A vs Su-25A And.. AJS37 vs. MiG-19P and these above are not even proportions, these are matched up by their role, except last ones right? Everyone agreed to adhere to gameplay rather than to historical accuracy. So for sake of gameplay decision was made to go for rear aspect missiles. We get certain crowd using only airframes with those missiles and many other questionable characteristics who are feeling free here to tell others what to do and using populism in general instead of presenting data or facts from stats. Currently you are telling me to forget gameplay sake decision and adhere to unfair conditions because you want it, also you assuming I want something... My question will be why you don't want to take factual data and check it thoroughly? Why don't you speak for yourself, and not for "majority", which I not so sure enjoying it? Also why won't you stop telling me what to do, pretty please? ;) If life goes anyway why do you even care about all of this here? I didn't want to write all of this until I saw this arrogance (telling me what to do), which I'm frankly fed up with. I'll take you seriously if you go fly other side for a month and then tell us how people there enjoying this circus of exploits. (Oh wait circus will disappear if it will just move to other side) You telling me take it or leave it. Why everyone should adjust to you? Just because your fun is more important than anyone else's ? You know what I enjoy? I was enjoying seeing =RAF= (Russian Air Force squad) flying F-5 in 4 ship and seeing how they train their tactics and even using Shaw's book for general tactics as their textbook. I was enjoying getting fair and square fights with them or even alongside them and other F-5 guys. And now you telling me no action in flight after takeoff in 10-15 minutes is bullshit and boring, you telling me what I should do like you are my manager or my father or something. How about you justify your words by something apart from pushing people around here? Show me data, stats or at least some cohesive propositions. If you are interested what I think about it you can ask me instead of ordering me around. Everyone should adapt, except you it seems ;) PS Oh And I didn't even show R-13M1 data (spoiler alerts R-13M1 is worse than R-3S :megalol: and R-3S has 500 KPH slower speed than 24J and don't turn from rail instantly 18 G and can pull 6 G less).

For a reference: Left side - RB-24J (Viggen AIM-9P3) Right side - AIM-9P (From F-5E)

Left side - RB-24J (Viggen AIM-9P3) Right side - AIM-9X (from F/A-18C) No further questions I think (on second test had even 18.9G instantly from RB-24J on moment of ignition).. :lol:

People already do that tbh. They don't change side but they just check who is streaming their gameplay on other side and listening all chatter on stream, I won;t say who are those people who do that, they know by themselves ;) (probably they think no one knew that, but oh well). When people don't want to play sim but just have their toxicity or hate or trolling out, we have circus instead of sim PvP and yes if you want to prevent that you would need to think about every exploit to an extent, it is tedious work :noexpression:

О, за нас будет маэстро!

It is commendable that he is sorry. But if his English is very poor how he can understand mission briefings in future and rules in different missions? They are all written in English. If he won;t understand objective how he is going to participate?

Can you upload mission you use when server is crashing?