nighthawk2174

Ahh forgot about that one didn't even register on my radar.

Just noticed that lol probably a mistake on their end. I'll add on with the correct distance when I can. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updating with evidence given to me recently: edit: test of new Gau-8 value https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comm...ee_how_ed_did/ (fixed link sorry about that) edit2: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comm...rong_what_ive/ - extra documents and videos here. edit3: thanks to a user they took this: this is at ~2000ft and the rounds are going beyond the wingtips of the SU25 who's wingspan is 47ft. If the ingame values were even acutally 8/12 you would see most of the rounds at 16ft and a few just beyond that and every once and a while up to 24 ft or around half the wingspan. this is what it should look like: edit4: thanks to people sending me stuff! edit5: ok so i've been looking through my stuff more closly and these popped out. This was sent to me a while ago and its a manual for the M117. Now based on what Yo-Yo has said it seems that the increased dispersion was based of of the existence of this clamp: But as you can see from the picture its a rather distinct addition to the system and not one aircraft in the game has a clamp that looks like this. Plus as far as we can tell this was a one off for the army hence the name "AIR DEFENSE MUZZLE CLAMP although ironically enough a 5mill dispersion clamp aslo exists and it looks exactly like what's on jets. (also red tracers XD ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My question posed on the ED thread still stands as well: Like can we get a definitive sneak peak at the code to see for sure what is going on with the dispersion value? How is dispersion calculated? How does the game get its 50%,80%,90%,100% values from one entered number? Why is it the case that in all the tests i've done the value currently entered of .0022 give me an aprox dispersion of 22-25mills? How come with the gau which you guys said is 13mills max based on your own new research has a new values of .0011 if it was really multiplied by 8 then wouldn't it be more like .0016?

This is not the point i'm sure we can go for a while on this but your reading and putting a lot more into my statement then what was said what I may feel about ED in this matter is irrelevant to the conversation. Well see I know you say you feel its correct but i'm trying to show with overwhelming evidence that its not correct and what correct looks like is something like the 14's M61. I mean saying that the in game guns shoots 8/12 doesn't even pass the basic sniff tests. Like one of the guys on the discord i'm on literally tested in about 15sec with the SU25 pic and there is no way that's right. If ED's value is actually 8/12 in game it would not be shooting over 47ft of dispersion at 2000ft. It would look like the F14.

1) In game tests The provided numbers though are odd mostly as they don't match up to the ingame values. There aren't any of your own ingame tests to back them up. But as much as I want to give ED the benefit of the doubt my own tests have a different outcome entirely. - overlay from project Vulcan reports, it is one of the worst dispersion values out of the lot tested. 2) The numbers, From my understanding of the 8/12 number is this value is a do not exceed beyond value for the dispersion of the gun. We know from both the project Vulcan tests and from a video (now removed unfortunately) that these guns are fully capable and quite often shoot well below that. In the case of project vulcun ~5.1 for 80% and in the case of the F104 (which had already had 1000's of rounds put through it) was ~4.5mills for 80%. Now in the case of the viper iirc mover indicated the 80% circle for the viper was 6mills. Which aligns quite well with project Vulcan reports. I haven't found this clip yet but when I do i'll update this post. Additionally in some of the DOD docs I provided the numbers are much lower: which I think supports the argument that the DOD numbers are the do not exceed and if you do repair values, not the ones on guns that aren't just about to go down for repair. 3) The Gau-8, F14, and other guns Something else odd is the gau8 now has a value of .0011 set in the code whereas the Vulcan is .0022. Yet not only in terms of specification but video evidence they are very similar. Yet then why is the Vulcan more than double this value? Not only that but other guns such as the Russian 23's, 30's, and the BMP gun are all in the range of 5, 5, 4 mills for their 100% circles respectively. And in game their values would seem to indicate this is true being .0005 and .0004 respectively. I think the final nail for this point is the F14, a module with such a massive dedication to portraying the jet as accurately as is even possible uses a value of .001 in the code... Less then half of what it is now. Now this is on the upper end of what I use in my own gun mod but it is well within what is acceptable for me. 4) The F15-34-1-1 https://i.imgur.com/53TDkf5.png 5)Video Evidence F18 Strafing footage I think is the most compelling not only that the values irl are probably lower than the 8/12 but are most certainly lower than in DCS. - link with timestamp According to the people in the video the orange target is a 20x20ft target with the poles adding no more than 20 extra ft. Now we also get some HUD footage which shows they fired at exactly 6000ft: The left and right dispersion is just around the size of the target and if bigger by only a few feet. Which would put the dispersion at But what does DCS look like? Using a BTR as its just under 20ft long, the same size as the Target (not the poles just the orange target), you get: which is many times the size of the target not just a little but a lot. 6) This doesn't address the CIWS problem -I don't think its even possible to logically say that the ingame CIWS dispersion is correct, just any video of CRAM in action will prove this to be the case. Will this issue be fixed? - pre fixes introduced for the second gen phalanx Some stats: MK-149 APDS V0 = 1160m/s Dispersion = ~.7-.9mills Round mass = ~74.1g for tungsten and ~73.3g for DU (assuming solid slug as per diagram) Explosives = not sure, at first I thought there was but i'm not so sure anymore. Caliber = 12mm (subcaliber shell) Drag = No data but should be quite good the shell slows down much slower than the PGU ----------------------------------------------- Conclusion I don't see how its possible to say that DCS is correct, with all due respect of course, but just the in game tests alone and the difference from the now mostly fixed Vulcan should prove this. The Gau-8 has already been proven wrong and ED admited as much reducing its dispersion by 150%. Mostly fixing the gun and at a minimum this should have forced the vulcuns values down as well. With the new minimum being the new values for the GAU-8. The dispersion is very high currently, over 2x, compared to what it should be and it is my very educated opinion that in the code the value should be set to somewhere in the range of .0008 to .0009 to be accurate; with .001 like the tomcat being completely acceptable. --------------- edit: test of new Gau-8 value (fixed link sorry about that) edit2: - extra documents and videos here. edit3: thanks to a user they took this: this is at ~2000ft and the rounds are going beyond the wingtips of the SU25 who's wingspan is 47ft. If the ingame values were even acutally 8/12 you would see most of the rounds at 16ft and a few just beyond that and every once and a while up to 24 ft or around half the wingspan. this is what it should look like: edit4: thanks to people sending me stuff! edit5: ok so i've been looking through my stuff more closly and these popped out. This was sent to me a while ago and its a manual for the M117. Now based on what Yo-Yo has said it seems that the increased dispersion was based of of the existence of this clamp: But as you can see from the picture: its a rather distinct addition to the system and not one aircraft in the game has a clamp that looks like this. Plus as far as we can tell this was a one off for the army hence the name "AIR DEFENSE MUZZLE CLAMP although ironically enough a 5mill dispersion clamp aslo exists and it looks exactly like what's on jets. (also red tracers XD )

Yup: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242215

9L I do wonder if it's because the RCS of missiles is too big. For example this is an ANSYS run on the RCS of the AGM-86 someone did. As you can see frontally the RCS is very small right around the 0.001m^2 mark. In DCS the HARM is something like 0.015m^2 which is much bigger than even the AGM-86 results. Of course one also has to wonder if the AN/APG-73 in game is over performing as well. Imo it's most likely a symptom of both.

Ok done some testing of note the bug is still there, while I haven't tested closely packed contacts I did go ahead and see how one could generate false contacts if you sere a singleton. Now with a friend flying the 14 and me in an F15 we did a bit of testing. Below are the tacview and track, the test of interest is the last one starting at 20min. Every time the F14 fires his gun there is a false track on his screen. Starting at 21:40 I started a constant 5g turn. Well as you can see from the track every time I pass through the notch (I don't stay in it) a false contact is spawned often heading the opposite direction while i'm still being tracked. This always happened by passing through the notch and not staying in it. This seems odd as the time spent in the notch is minimal and should be well within the coast time of the radar. https://www.dropbox.com/s/acogbv7fy1exnu0/F14_GhostContactsTest1.acmi?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpugdgja65bskub/F14_GhostContactsTest1.trk?dl=0

Yeah I don't have much on its effectiveness just tidbits here and there from different papers and textbooks:

With Fox1's wouldn't it be more the case that so long as the main radar is locked onto the target (and stays that way) the missile will perceive the target to grow in apparent size dragging the aim point behind the target? With ofc this being dependent on aspect, range, Doppler gate size, and if the missiles has filters specifically to reduce the s/n (if that's the correct term) from chaff.

Np thanks for the repost

Fair enough pulse is a very different beast which the F15 also has as well

Ehh i'm not so sure about the effectiveness of chaff against modern PD radars, especially the 7M/MH, 120B, and C5.

Well I know that most modern jets when in look up will reduce the the size of the doppler gate. In one of the F16 manuals I have I think it said it can remove almost all of the doppler filters when in look up. I know the MIG29 is similar in look down its ~113kts for the blind zone, in look up at long range its ~80kts, and at close range (20-15km) to less than 27 if in look up and the target is close. Which actually makes me wonder does the new radar model take into account different notch sizes if in look up or look down @chizh?

Yeah the jacknife at notch, although i've noticed it may not even be in the notch:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=266811 , is a really bad bug and it only seems to have gotten worse lately with all the lag in mp in particular.

Sweet good deal have fun with the mod then!

I've noticed the false contact bug a bit less but it seems the recent instability of servers has made it worse again? I'll post an update latter after some testing in SP and MP.

Wait as far as I could tell they should be right do you have proof of this?

Hold on if there is ground clutter that would really just limit the max detection range no? How would it make tracking beyond this more unreliable? Its a PD seeker after all. The introduction of everything I mentioned above yes would make the missile better but its also realistic to what the missile should have.

?????? it isn't even that high off borsight of a shot I don't even get your point here. - 7min 30sec

On that note are we going to get optimal control, kalman filters, and range gating as well?

In game the CIWS systems of both the USN and Russian navy are set to 3 seconds for their reaction time to threats . This seems very high not only for a system that has the ability to plan which targets its going to engage then enagage them right as they get to max range but also a system as automated as CIWS. There are plenty of videos out there of CIWS going from search to tracking a target in well under a second. Same with the RAM missiles which should have the same capability yet unlike gun based CIWS or the command guided SA19 for the Russians have the ability to quickly engage targets one after another. Engaging one then moving on to more targets returning to the inital target only if the missiles miss.

In the game there is an action where a unit will hold then a dropdown menu to select a template. Which the group should 'deploy' to. Yet this is not working, I really want to use this to have mobile sam sites that will move around and deploy but it hasn't worked on any unit i've tried it with. With template the group of units is an exact match of or too other templates as well.

Agreed especially with the A10CII on the way.

^ Yup odd