TripRodriguez

I've done the same and I mostly agree, but after many hours of playing around I decided it really does break my immersion to not be able to look at a switch and see my hand move to it. Also, I'm not very good with dexterity. Aspie.

What we really need is hand tracking (Leap Motion) or tracked gloves. There's a huge number of us who aren't about to give up our HOTAS etc. to use VR hand controllers instead. We need a solution that lets us naturally transition from hands on the controls, to flipping imaginary switches. It seems so obvious that I don't understand why it hasn't been fully realized yet, except for FlyInside for civil sims. Captogloves for DCS were looking really promising, but then they went dark on the topic about a year ago as near as I can tell. I emailed them and never got a reply.

Hey guys. I know that there is an odd kind of conflict between VR and full cockpits, but I've got a different approach that I'm really surprised not to see other people talking about. As a home pit builder myself what I consider the ultimate solution is to be able to fly in VR, but still have 100% use of the cockpit without any fumbling around. There are two solutions for this: 1) Quick switch to pass-through camera, operate cockpit via that. 2) Accurate hand tracking with a cockpit perfectly matched up to the VR cockpit. This is my preferred method and the one I'm trying to get set up myself. I think it's the perfect solution. You reach for that switch or knob in VR, able to see your hands exactly, and when your hand gets there, the real thing is there under your fingers! VR haptics can't get any better than that! Has anyone else been working on this? The obvious options are Leap Motion and various tracked gloves available as "dev kits". I purchased Vive Trackers for my hands for this purpose. My early tests were promising, but the big drawback is that there is no animation for the hands so you can't actually see where your fingers are. Only solution for that so far is to always keep my hand in the same position as the static pose of the VR hands LOL. Also a side note, it is a pain when you first load into the aircraft to carefully adjust the vr view to match the cockpit. Not a deal breaker by any means, but an automated solution would be awesome. Put a Vive Tracker on your sim cockpit somewhere and in-game match up the same location on the virtual cockpit and attach the two? That's definitely getting ahead of ourselves though, one step at a time Trip! There was a guy who had a working Leap Motion hand tracking plugin for SteamVR over a year ago. In the next few days I'm going to test and see if it still works with the current version. I think he gave up because what he was really after was "FlyInside" style cockpit interaction, which is an excellent goal, but all I need for this project is to see my hands! There's also the Leap Motion plugin for SteamVR to try. That might be the better option anyway, and I'll be testing that in the next few days as well. My biggest concern with Leap Motion is that the positional tracking may not be consistent enough. So let me know what you guys think about this. I'll report back on whether or not the leap motion thing works for me. If it does, I'll be working on finishing my Huey cockpit. =) I'll also in the future be building a pit for one of the allied WWII aircraft, and at least one jet. Probably the 'hawg but maybe the F-14 or the viper. I'd have a hard time talking myself into a Viper pit without getting my hands on a force sensing stick though... Building pits for this setup will be less work because you don't need all the fancy appearance stuff, just plain panels with all the knobs and switches will basically do the job. I personally have an additional complication in keeping the real cockpit and the virtual one matched up because I'm also on a motion simulator! With proper motion compensation it's still totally possible but I do worry about things getting a bit out of alignment with all the variables in play.

Agreed! I'm 39 years old and his formula looks about right to me!

Wags said it's a separate thing, post #120 and #119 in this thread. I guess we'll just be waiting for news on any progress on that. They certainly know how excited we are for that patch so I think it's safe to assume they are hard at work on it.

So if I'm understanding correctly, this OB patch that we are making all this noise about is NOT the one that will give us the VR optimization? Something I read last week gave me the impression that the "next patch" would be the VR framerate boost. If that is the case, I can stop refreshing the forums every five minutes from excitement LOL. Wags and Nineline, you have been doing an excellent job communicating in my opinion. You've posted at least a half dozen times the last two days on this topic. Keep up the good work and please don't let the vocal minority prevent you sharing guesses at dates etc. with the rest of us. There are people who are always going to complain no matter what.

You can put me on the list of unfortunate souls who had a short moment of "Hooray!" before noticing the year was off by one! I'm waiting for the next sale, too poor to buy at full price but I'll be picking up the F-14 and would love to pick up the Viggen too at some point just to support HB (and get a super cool airplane that I'll probably never take the time to learn properly).

That is brilliant! I've never worked in the field and I can still "feel" the frustration of devs in these kind of circumstances when there are i..*ahem* people saying all manner of "unkind words in regard to their character". It's no wonder devs never want to give us good news or guesses on timelines. The community promises that they understand that sometimes things don't work out, or that timelines slip, and then sure enough people are raging at them when exactly those things happen. As for you guys Wags, the vast majority of us appreciate your hard work and make sure to keep our excitement in check under these circumstances. I've got instant email notifications going on this thread and the "update" thread, but no matter how long it takes I'll still appreciate the effort going into it and feel bad for the abuse you get for your effort from the vocal minority in times like these. PS- Wags, you going out on a limb a while back and telling us that a 50% boost to performance was coming "soon" was just in time to save me from buying a GPU upgrade I could ill-afford. Thanks to that I stuck with my GTX 1080, so thank you.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The F-18 page in the ED store says the following: "Being an aircraft carrier capable aircraft, our Hornet also comes with the most detailed aircraft carrier ever created for a PC game. Catapult from the "boat", strike a large assortment of targets that only DCS World can offer, then "call the ball" and land on the carrier." That states that the "most detailed aircraft carrier ever created for a PC game" "comes with" the F-18 module. That definitely implies that to use the carrier described you must buy the F-18 module. Is that incorrect? If so they really need to fix the store page. I would be flaming mad if I bought the F-18 module and didn't get a major carrier upgrade when the description says I would. More importantly this may be costing Heatblur sales! If I didn't have a strong preference for the F-14 there is absolutely no question that I would have bought the F-18 between the two because I want that carrier that it "comes with". Hell I almost decided to buy the F-18 instead of the F-14 on that bases when I DID have a strong preference for the F-14. Not trying to start a war, I just want to understand.

@Plexus I am super super excited for this aircraft and I really appreciate you guys making it. I don't have any particular interest in Russian aircraft per se, but I love the inter-war fighters with mono wing and open cockpit and this is a fantastic and beautiful example. Now I will definitely have to add a fan to my motion simulator! I will admit though, money is tight so I'm holding out for the next DCS sale and hoping to pick it up then. I can hardly restrain myself though, I can feel the wind in my hair and the thrill of aggressive maneuvers in an open cockpit airplane! I'm almost bouncing in my seat just thinking about it! :pilotfly:

Hi again guys! I'm a little better educated than I was two years ago but most of this thread still makes my head spin! :lol: Please try to consider that I don't understand a lot of what we are discussing! I'm wanting to send Ian (BFF) an email to see if he can improve this with the information here so I'm trying to figure out what to tell him and what info to provide. I know this is the same kind of thing you were discussing here. If I fly inverted, and then push the stick left my simulator rolls the opposite way it should! This is the worst issue I've had yet, and even more of an issue with my interest in these new aerobatic aircraft modules! So what I'm looking to try to solve is the errors when you roll past 180 degrees (inverted) or pitch past 90 degrees and invert. Can you guys help me put together the info to send Ian on the problem and how to fix it? I believe the info I need is just above this post (Pitch_Final, Roll_Final, roll_climb) but want to make sure I send Ian all the info I can to help. For roll cues, it seems to me that it would be good to have cues just for initiating and cancelling a roll, and just have it wash out while the roll rate is maintained. Stick left; sim rolls left then washes out. Bring stick back to center; sim rolls right, then washes out. Bank angle is much less important since in a coordinated turn you basically don't feel the bank angle anyway. Thanks all!

Wait, you are saying that upgrading to 32 GB system RAM made a big difference for you in VR all around? Not just big multiplayer servers? I mostly play single player, not sure if I'd be willing to pay for the RAM just to have a shot at doing multiplayer servers but if this can be confirmed that 32GB improves performance significantly in single player VR I'll be ordering more memory soon unless 2.5.5 really does make it a moot point. Can anyone else confirm this? I guess I'd better take this to the VR area, but wanted to ask Sniper175 directly so sorry for the OT post. My system is not as high end as yours, but it's pretty good. 8600K OC'd and GTX 1080 G1 Gaming. On-Topic: I haven't loaded up Normandy for a long while, I guess I'd better give it another try. Shimmering and low frame rate were my major issues. I only fly in VR. As far as accuracy, ignorance is bliss! Also this whole thing seems like a horrible business move for Ugra... if the perception is their previous map is buggy and neglected I'd expect that to seriously impact the number of sales of Syria/future maps. Trip

@Yeti42 , here is your answer. You are buying them to support DCS development. Strike a dramatic pose up on your moral high horse! :D That single flight in each is just out of idle curiosity. =)

Really looking forward to this for sure! I have a quick question though. I'm planning to buy the F-14 in the summer sale, do I have to buy the F-18 module as well to get a really good carrier experience while we wait for the Heatblur carriers? Thanks!

@Dolphin887 Thank you guys so much for bringing us this module. I mean no offense to anyone, but I don't really understand the people complaining about non-combat aircraft being released for DCS. If ED had developed it maybe you could say they were diverting resources that should have been used for combat stuff, but since it's third party if you don't want it don't buy it. On the other side of the argument, as near as I've been able to learn DCS is the best flight sim out there for aerobatics thanks to it's amazing flight physics modeling. I also have X-Plane 11 and P3D and though they are great sims for air ordinary flights, as soon as you start getting into "unusual attitudes" things get farther and farther from reality. Many aircraft in those sims won't even stall in a realistic manner, and forget about realistic spins and spin recoveries. On that note, can we get an "unusual attitude" skin for this aircraft? =D

Rift is a straight up no-go with the motion sim. At present the ONLY tracking solution I can use on the motion sim and get really good results is Lighthouse. As for Lawnmower Man, that's where my obsession started. The movie was awful even as a kid but this stuck in my head: If you don't remember this is displayed right at the beginning of the film... liars! https://imgur.com/a/0Up79cV Image link not working for some reason, will try to fix later got to run now! For now I'll just leave the direct IMGUR link.

@Wags Damn, I'm sad to hear that. I did order Index, but for my use case Lighthouse/SteamVR is mandatory. The only way available for me to have the VR head tracking compensate for the motion of my home built 6DOF motion simulator is with a SteamVR third party plugin called OpenVR Input Emulator. Oculus has ignored or rebuffed every effort made by the motion simulator community to address this so I was actually forced to ditch Rift in favor of Vive. =( Check the video in my sig to see a quick demo of my sim with DCS World. I hadn't figured out the right settings for the motion cues yet when I filmed that, so that has drastically improved but the video gives you the general idea.

Also there is "SOON™". Same basic gag, all based around the fact that devs who answer the ever persistent community question of "when" almost always live to regret it!

I will say that Wags' comment sounded much more like a soon than a SOON™ but it takes however long it takes! That said, one of the things I really hate on the internet is that game developers have generally taken to leaving us in the dark because they don't want to deal with the players complaining or raging about "you said about a month and it's been two!" etc. Delays happen. Hell I don't know if I've ever finished ANYTHING in the amount of time I thought it would take! Even worse than that is the frequent clamoring on forums of "We know it's not done and mostly broken but please let us test it!" followed by the same people posting stuff like "OMG this is total trash, this game sucks kthxbye". Before anyone rages at me, I'm not talking about DCS forums, I'm talking generically. Overall I think the ED/DCS forum is possibly the best forum community of a post-launch game. Wags, thank you for going out on a limb and telling us it's coming soon. I find it much easier to wait when I'm seeing some kind of indication of progress.

Evilbert thank you for your input as well. What you say about me is true, my friends know I take "immersion" more seriously than anyone else they've ever met. I really want the 5K+ for exactly the reason you cite, but for me if I decide it was a bad decision the financial consequences would be a real blow. For the same reason upgrading my 1080 (not a ti) is not an option I can consider currently. The thing is I'm doing all of this on ridiculously low income, I'm still paying off the (maybe $5,000ish) motion sim three years later as well as the vive plus three trackers (plus ex-wife debt)! I had to switch from Oculus CV1 to Vive in order to gain motion compensation for the sim. I drive a sorta beat up old 1996 F-150 and I live in a trailer/mobile home (on an owned lot) LMAO. I do also have one nice 1966 Corvair Corsa but it's been broken for about five years; since just before I started on the whole VR motion sim thing. LMAO @Bob_Bushman I'm an officially diagnosed H.F. Autistic (the artist formerly known as Aspergers which is part of the reason for my very limited funds) and I've been trying to catch them all too. I've been not selling the old gear when I get the new like I normally do because twenty years down the road I want to have my DK1, DK2, CV1, and Orig. Vive and maybe the next one or two HMD's all lined up on the display shelf. =) VR is something I've been waiting for most of my life, and I'm reveling in the experience of being an early adopter so I want keepsakes. Bob, that's one of the reasons I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I'm down for that kind of thing normally, but what you describe is what I'm already doing (to an extreme) with my home built motion simulator :joystick: so layering tinkering with the Pimax software on top of toying with the motion sim software, SteamVR motion compensation plugin settings, hardware, and firmware, and to a much lesser extent toying with SimShaker for Aviators the result is already nearly exponential in terms of "wasted" time and I'd be adding -1- to the exponent value. I put that in quotes because actually I enjoy the tinkering, but I might cease to enjoy it if I keep adding to it more and more and it gets to be really unmanageable. The main fear I have is that if something happens like a bug where PiTools refuses to work with the SteamVR third party opensource motion compensation plugin, who knows how long it might take to get fixed. It's entirely possible it might never get fixed. This is a whole lot less likely to happen with a mainstream native SteamVR setup. I want that FOV, I can't describe how badly I want it, but for once I decided to be a responsible adult..... well ok that might be a slight exaggeration, I did just buy yet another VR setup that will mean living on bread and water for another few months. :music_whistling: :megalol:

That's a logical path, but forget about Rift S! It's a true Facebook VR headset, made for the masses to be as easy to use as possible at the lowest cost. No physical IPD adjustment? Are you kidding? I read that means about 30 percent of Americans will have eye strain and/or trouble with seeing double in that thing. I'm one of them (IPD 67), I know because I had these issues myself with DK2 and DK1, and I see what happens when I set the IPD to where it is permanently stuck on the Rift S. With DK2 I actually purchased a set of 3D printed adapters to move the lenses a few mm apart to help with the issue so I'm not talking about a tiny little complaint here.

You are not alone sir, in my thorough investigation the past two days I found a lot of people with similar stories. Some people swear by it, some say to keep away. The thing I was most worried about is the software, but there are other things to be concerned about as well. I'm currently 100% confident I made the right call in ordering Index.

That's what I'm counting on for now! I decided to buy the Valve Index (got my order in first wave/June delivery). It's kinda the same way, not in FOV but reviewers are saying the sense of presence is far beyond that of any other HMD due to the super fast display etc. It seems it's one of those things you just have to see for yourself before you can understand the difference. I spoke privately with a guy I really respect who got to try the Index prototype (as well as Pimax 5K+) and he said that the impression he got was the image quality in the Index was quite a bit clearer overall vs. Pimax (albeit over a much smaller FOV). I went this route not because I think I'd rather have that than the super wide FOV, but for practical reasons. Having to use Pimax software layer really worries me with my already super complex and fiddly setup. Also performance. The Index should look great at the same settings I've been running on Or. Vive (been supersampling). It's going to be super hard to wait until mainstream HMD's get up to super high FOV. :(

Thanks for the update Shadoga. Hopefully when they've got it ready for Caucasus they will release it to us. One map with good frame rate is 100% better than none! @wags

Excellent, thank you! Thank you also to Boedha68 for the link, I did watch it and there was a lot of good info there. It's really difficult to decide between that awesome Pimax FOV and the super polished high end with only 20 degrees extra FOV for $200 less. If anyone near NorthEast Pennsylvania has the Pimax 5K+ maybe contact me, I can try the Pimax and you can try my motion sim! :pilotfly: What's the latest word on when we might get the optimization patch? I haven't followed anything at all over the winter, just getting back into the groove this week.