mkellytx

This is one of those topics that need a sticky, or mention in an FAQ. Use search, most all of this has been asked answered in previous XL threads. Rant aside, both demonstrators were Franken-birds, written off A/B's given plugs, new wings and block 30 avionics. Block 40/50 on production birds isn't unreasonable as they would have cut in in the 91/92-time frame. There never was an XL vs E competition per Sae. The AF had the option of finishing one, both or neither line with the E or XL demonstrators. The AF chose the E b/c it was 10% the cost of a C/D while the XL would have been 30-40% of a block 40/50. There's also the bit about protecting funds for ATF and the fact that the gray eagle types really didn't like a Viper that could carry as many BVR missiles as them. The XL demonstrator was very much WIP. Even when NASA put the digital FLCS from a Block 40 they basically only recreated the analog control laws. There were still undesirable P&FQ that were never fixed, mentioned in NASA reports. The upside, NASA characterized the aero of the aircraft very well and makes that data available for verification of CFD code. There's a NASA book, free download that I linked in one of the other threads. Well worth the download and read, Short of an alternative Cold War offering, can't see it ever happening. My $0.02

I've seen the vids of the F-15 verticals load limited flutter, but they're at high speed and G, not going around for a missed approach.

Sorry, that's just FBW rapid flight control movements. Flutter is a totally different beast, it's self-excited, aeroelastic, by definition it's resonant in both bending and twisting, and with control surfaces in the best case is limited, less bad control surface falls off and worst-case wings or tails fall off. The only flight tests I flew where the hair on the back on the neck stood up were the flutter tests. We flew 20% past Vne, did stick raps and waited to see if the oscillations began.

It's not the radar it's the data link, IIRC. The system used on the JA-37's was the basis for the one still in use today with the Gripen's.

A WW F should be well within the realm of available data. G might be a stretch, but possible. Start with an F with STARMS and you get all of Rolling Thunder, finish with a G and you get the Linebackers.

The IRST was originally under the nose, there are images online if you look for them. A lot's been written about those pods and what they are.

The particular mission I had in mind was the strike on the PLO headquarters in Tunis, which did use Charlies with FAST packs and a pairs of Mk84's. The Osirak attack, Eagles flew top cover. Three bags was plenty to get them there and pack on an A, Tunis however was a different story.

The Israeli's seemed to like the CCIP well enough to use it quite a bit. It's also pretty interesting that the Gray Eagle pics with Mk84's and FAST packs were at Elmendorf and Kadena. I can see how in the CW gone hot in Europe how the PACAF guys would maintain that capability. As for DCS, I'm okay with not getting the capability day one, but think it would add a lot when maps included some of the more well-known historical missions where the capability was/would be used.

I did misunderstand you, that said on the IRST, the F-22 was originally planned to have one. Back in the 90's I worked on a maintenance trainer contract for the F-22 and saw the engineering drawings with it on them. Sadly, like the cheek radar arrays it was cut for cost savings.

Really? Av Leak back in the 90's attributed that capability to the Raptor. I won't confirm nor deny since I've sat in a Raptor cockpit and know people who've flown chase on both (F-22/F-35) and others who served in the Raptor SPO. I'd love to know where you confirmed that assertion. Now, the thing Fat Amy has that Raptor doesn't is a lot more CPU cycles, that's useful for a lot of stuff.

There are theaters in the game, with F-15C users who happen to use that capability quite regularly. It would be nice to have. The USAF jets had the modes on the jets. Reminds me of a story I heard from DS where the Eagle drivers were bored on the long flight over to Saudi and started playing with those modes out of boredom. One noticed it wasn't working correctly and wrote it up in the forms. The response back was something on the order of what the @$# @#$3 $^%$^ were you doing using that, and how @#$@ $%# $%^$% stupid are you for writing it up. Sounds like it meets the 10% truth threshold...

Everybody needs to stop asking for the nukes, since we'll never get them. Instead ask for the practice bombs which simulate them. There's enough out there public source that one of the campaign builders could make a very good REFORGER Exercise campaign, ORI/NORI or Strike qualification campaign on a cold war map (Incirlik anybody?). A campaign where the final sortie is to take off alone and unafraid, fly the route with precise timing, get jumped by bandits, make it to the range, do the idiot loop, drop the shape on time, and close enough to the center to qualify. After all, it's the alone and unafraid aviating, with zero tolerance for error that makes the mission set so difficult, challenging and potentially satisfying if you can do it.

Great stuff. One of my favorite research topics is the NATO Northern flank at the end of the Cold War. Here's a map of the Soviet air defenses in 90. nullHave the 89 or 90 USAF order of battle from orbat.info (used to be orbat.com IIRC) from years ago. From that here's what was planned to go to Norway and the 3rd AF: nullnull

The two XL demonstrators were Franken planes. The airframes were an A model and a B model, the avionics were block 25/30, the FLCS was the original analog although NASA later modified the GE powered bird with a block 40 digital FLCS but were conservative with the flight control laws. The Amaram's were wood, the speed brakes had issues and there were some undesirable handling characteristics/oscillations which are documented in publicly available reports. They were never fixed because the concept was never pursued. One line of thinking was that its supersonic performance was a threat to the ATF funds, although the increased unit price compared to block 40/50 models could explain that decision as well. The go to resource on the XL is the excellent book/case study Elegance in Flight, by Albert C. Piccirillo, which is available as a free download on the NASA website. Elegance in Flight

The Jag would be great for Kola. One of their war time missions if the CW went hot was deploy to Bardufoss and lob GBU's at bridges the SAS were lasing.