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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
That denial sounds like old school Bradbury Lines talk to me.- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
A good point Hansongb, As soon as the extra PCBs and stencils come in I will have enough parts for 250 units. Most parts are in the thousands and more than I anticipate selling. I will have to confer with the "keeper of the list" FireCat , but I don't expect the list to be a firm commitment to purchase,. If someone wants to buy, but is short on cash, or misses the post with their name or numbers, I think we can just keep rolling them into the next group or put them on a published hold list until they are ready, or decide not to purchase. I will be doing daily shipments so in the big picture I don't think it will have much of an impact on those eager to get their units. I am always open for suggestions if anyone has a better way. Thanks Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
The pics and dimensions are perfect, just what I needed. The fact that you included the flat, 2" center dimension is important. I will post some PDFs for your review as soon as I make the 3d models. Thanks again Peter. I saw that vertical mount camera and forgot that’s where PointCTRL goes, Offset is not optimal, but I think I can move it slightly forward to clear the lens. Thanks for the heads up. Hey Hansangb, I went back and forth with different quick-change HMS mounts and ended up with dedicated mounts for each HMD. Additional HMS mounts for different HMDs will be available. The cover for the HMS just snaps in place and the PCB is easily removed allowing it to be placed in another enclosure quickly. Additional HMSs will be available separately if you don’t want to switch PCBs and use one set of FCU’s Thanks for the input. As soon as units are shipping, I am going to focus on the SM (Standard Monitors) version. There will probably be a few options to mount the sensor, or sensors, stationary or head mounted. I must look and see if Track IR has head tracking tied up in a patent. If not, I will probably do an integrated head and finger tracker combined in the HMS. PointCTRL head tracking would work the opposite of Track IR with the LEDs mounted on the monitor and the camera on your head. I can track 16 objects at 200FPS so it’s not a problem to combine them both. By combining head and finger tracking I should be able to keep the mouse cursor still on the cockpit panel controls as you move your head but not your finger. Thanks Chic, for reminding me of all the work I have ahead of me. Update: It looks like all of the PCB’s are done and the stencil is still in process. Thanks, MIles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Spoken like a true tactical pistol instructor.....?- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Wow, Thank you so much Firecat. What you did is perfect. No need for anything else. If you have the time, After I make the 3D model I would like to send you a PDF with 3 views and cutaways that you can cut out and test fit to check if we are close. Actually, I will post in forum for feed back from anyone. I cant seem to find good dimensions, 3 view drawings, or 3d models of the oddesy. If anyone has the oddesy or any other HMD they would like an HMS mount for, just send me some pics like Firecat did. You dont have to worry about measuring the angles, I will overlay the pic in the 3d design environment. The pictures should be taken as far away as possible while zoomed in to reduce perspective distortion. The views should be square to the HMD like a 3 view drawing, and the area of interest should be in the center of the pic. Thanks again Firecat, this is a big help. Thanks, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Hey Farmer Tom, I think you have been here from the beginning. Solder paste stencil for re-flow, and more production boards are almost complete. See last board processing below. I believe the last item in quantity I am waiting for is the Lipo safe bags for FCU shipment, storage, and charging. I know a lot of you are anxious to try out PointCTRL and please know I am at this full time, its not something I am doing on the side. I really just want it to go out right. About a month ago I thought "two weeks", but I must have messed up the order for the stencil, so here we are delayed. I can say we are very close, and I have a room full of components. Thanks for your patience, and I hope it will be worth your wait. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
I agree Chic, From what I gathered it should work fine. I will be moving on to development for 2D monitors once VR production is going smooth. The production stencil and another 1600 PCBS are almost done.- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Hey Guys, Unfortunately the solder paste stencils for production didn't process. I reordered them and more production PCBs. Components for production are rolling in everyday. After testing it became apparent that a quick change battery would not be necessary. After measuring average use, 10 hours per charge is expected, Charge time from dead to full is about 45 min. If you plug it in when you take breaks, it should run continuously. Instead of including the 2 extra batteries I am including a Lipo battery fireproof bag for FCU storage and charging. As far as production units per day goes, it will start off slow, and build as the process is automated and refined. I expect to the lowest initial production rates of 10 per day with no automation. I will keep you posted, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Guppy, Great Pit, the whole feel of the room is very zen, I felt calm and enlightened just looking at pictures of it. Do you have jet fuel scented candles burning out of frame. But seriously, I can't let my wife see that or she will say "why can't your pit area look like Guppy's" I just checked tracking and the latest revision of the PCBs should be here Monday. I am concerned though, because the size of the package can’t include the solder past stencil required for scaled production. I am using an in-house (literally) re-flow oven and implementing the pick and place machine. Even without the pick and place, it’s still a short cycle for PCB production. The bottleneck is 3d printing of the enclosures, but I am addressing that. I am concerned about Cost of Poor Quality (COPQ, term for you Six Sigma guys), especially with the international market, so international shipments will be slightly delayed until local customers have confirmed product satisfaction. Thanks Harlikwin Thanks hakjar, I don’t know if I would go that far, but it does simplify cockpit interaction. Joe S, who has a prototype had a great way of summing it in one sentence, but I can’t remember how he put it. No pressure, but I am looking at you Joe. After working through this list, I really can’t see more than 3 or 4 orders a per week for PointCTRL. I plan on fixed monitor implementation PointCTRL after this. Hi Wolle, I will have instructions, videos and online purchase on the web site and posted here. I just want to keep this within this community first, which is why I have not updated the web page and why I have put my efforts here instead. I know it does not make business sense but that is not my focus. Here is the link to the post with a PDF start of the instructions ( a whole page just to turn the damn thing on). https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3823202&postcount=495 Thanks everyone for your patience, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
I agree, and I think there will be a gloveless solution also. Essential a really good Leap Motion. Which I am surprised has not advanced. The first prototypes of PointCTRL tracked finger motion with a gyro and accelerometers as well as XY position with the same HMS sensor we now use. It read whether you moved you finger up, down, forward and backward. Down, Forward, or Backward = left click, Up = right click. The sensing worked well, but their was just something missing when you moved your finger in mid air. The tactile feel of the real button really made it feel right. I guess the ultimate solution could be gloves that squeezed your fingertips when you touched something. Capto-glove is doing some really cool stuff with heat sensing. Just some thoughts Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
I think the reason is we are a very small segment of the gaming community, with specific requirements to not only interact with the software, but alongside our significant amount of hardware. And no, its still just me, no offers to buy me out by any big companies, which I would have no interest in anyway, I enjoy this. Although I am hosting the CEO of PixArt, (the HMS sensor manufacturer) and his associates for a "business social" at my home where they will be experiencing DCS in VR with PointCTRL. I cant say enough about how responsive and helpful PixArt, and their US rep group WPG has been. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Hey Guys, The first 100 production PCBs have shipped, and I should have them in a few days. I had made some changes to make the FCU smaller. I hope all is good, because I didn't prototype them to save time. As far as list goes, the original intent was just to gauge interest and order enough parts to ensure everybody who wanted one, got one. As of now, I already have a very short list for the initial production units, and I will contact them soon. After that, I thought a fair way to ship units would be to follow the order of initial post from participants in this thread. If anyone has a better, or more fair way, please let me know. Once production starts I don't think it will be very long from the shipping of the first units, to when everyone gets their orders shipped. Thanks, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Thanks for the offer, I PMed you a thank you. I will ship you one to test fit ASAP. Thanks again, Update: I had to modify the implementation of the Virtual Radial Buttons,( the ones that you point and click just outside your field of view to activate commands) . There just was not enough field of view left in the horizontal plane. So now we have a row of virtual buttons above your field of view, and a row below. To keep it simple I am starting with 3 zones above and 3 zones below, with Left, Center, and Right hit zones. There are 3 FCU button choices for each zone. We have 6 zones x 3 FCU buttons =18 additional functions. I will probably put each FCU on a separate transceiver pipe, so we can also add something like... for eject both FCU's to the lower center zone and center press and hold both FCU buttons to eject. I am only messing around with these little extras now because I am waiting for the new order of PCBs to arrive. I was able to reduce the size of the FCU a bit. I wont hold up up shipping units for these small enhancements. I can push out future updates via firmware updates. Almost forgot, re-flow oven test went well today. This will speed up production significantly. Thanks, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
@ Firecat, I will make a HMS mount for the Pimax and the Oddesy. If I cant find good dimensions online I may ask you to take a few pics of yours next to a ruler, if you wouldn't mind.- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Since each PointCTRL will be tested, I will probably set them for 30 or 40 seconds before they leave. My intent is for the user to just plug it in and have it work right out of the box. Adjustments can be made as the user gets more comfortable with it. It does take some getting used to before its second nature. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
For your review Firecat. It explains some additional functionality of the FCU. The HMS is next. Thanks Miles Edit: Updated Directions (Grammar) Directions for PointCTRL FCU.pdf- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Hey Guys, Prep is almost complete to start the pre-production units, finally, no more changing proto types. The code will continue to be optimized and features added, which will be available via firmware updates to the HMS. I hope to have the PNP machine and re-flow oven up soon. I will probably just focus on manual smt placement and re-flow to fill the orders for this community. Good question, I will continue to manufacture and improve PointCTRL as long as there is interest. I do expect a more integrated solution in the future from the VR HMD manufactures. Thanks for the input Firecat, The website should be updated soon with instructions and videos. And a Big thank you back, for your support and patience. Yes, VRBs Virtual Radial Buttons will be an option, probably around $10.00 or $12.00 per 3 button bank. Thanks for bringing it up Mojo, you reminded me I still have to finish the mount for them.. As always, thanks for your encouragement Ratcather Just send 175 claims, not 200. Edit: We have all had this idea, every-time we tried to reach for a switch, or press a button in the cockpit, forgetting it was not real. I once dropped a beer on the floor when I tried to place it on the Huey's center panel. So not so brilliant, but thanks. I know I have said it before, but I will say it again, I truly appreciate everyone's support and patience. Without your continued support and encouragement, I would have been distracted by something else shiny and not made progress on PointCTRL. I am committed to getting PointCTRL out ASAP and not letting this supportive community down. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
I think I am within a week of full production. I have a list of thread participants from the thread that have shown interest in initial prototype units. I will be PMing them first before a website for purchase goes hot. Thanks Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
First Prototype for test, evaluation and feedback was shipped today: PointCTRL Kit Includes 1 HMS - Head Mounted Sensor, 2 FCUs - Finger Control Units, 4 LiPo batteries, 2 on-board, 2 spares. 1 4 port USB charger with FCU and spare pigtail connectors, 5 Volt USB transformer not included 1 10ft USB Micro USB cable w/ 2 cable management fasteners 1ft spare FCU strap. $175.00 USD plus shipping Thanks, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Nothing negative seemed to jump out, A minor watchdog code tweak opportunity presented itself with the hand zoom. Los gets on here sometimes, so he will probably share his views. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Los came by today after one of his RW flights. He conducted testing and provided feedback. Thanks Los,- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
I forgot to add that we can look into adding the functionality through Lua programming of having pop up commands appear around the perimeter of the screen when you do something like, right click off screen. Maybe even highlight the text as the off screen cursor passes through there "hit zones". Just some future thoughts, Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Careful Deano, in a few weeks it might actually stop bouncing off. I wont say "2 weeks", but possibly 14 days. Update: FCU to cursor movement reduction ratio when zoomed is complete and working well. The last function I am adding is off-screen clicking. Off-screen clicking takes advantage of the fact that the HMS field of view is greater than current VR HMDs'. Basically, it allows you to point slightly above, below, left, or right of your field of view and click to activate commands. Picture it as 16 invisible buttons persistently surrounding the perimeter of your field of view. When Joe S. and I were talking about this he used the term radial buttons, which I thought was perfect. So unless Ratcatcher has something better, I think we can call them VRBs' "Virtual Radial Buttons" so we don't confuse them with the OSBs' of the MFDs'. Holy Crap that's a lot of acronyms. A few examples, To virtually press the escape key you would point just off-screen to the upper left hand corner of your FOV, when you click, the HMS send sends the ESC key. For DCS radio menu, point and click off-screen upper right corner and the radio menu comes up which you can also point and click to execute menu items. It should be intuitive for things like turning on and off chat screens, just click left of where the chat window would appear, UH1 gunner and weapons status, just click to the right of where the pop up window is. Knee board, lower right, frame counters, views, ect. A note on external views, they suck with PointCTRL, I will address it in a firmware update. for now you just go off screen with the FCUs and use the mouse. Thanks Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Thats exactly how it works Deano, Right now its default RCTRL+KP5, Its not a toggle, it only stays zoomed in when you hand gets close and returns to normal view when you move it away. Right now I am coding to reduce the finger movement to cursor movement ratio when in the zoomed view mode. It was jumpy when zoomed in. These are the countless little things that seem to be taking me forever to finish. I also moved the calibration button functions to the FCU. You enter the mode with a long hold on the right button on the HMS and calibrate the cursor with the FCU buttons. Its much easier to calibrate this way. Also did some testing with Prepar3d. Works well, but I just don't like the mouse implementation as much as DCS. As far as individual UI preferences go, ie Mouse, VR hands, ect, PointCTRL is just another option, some may like it, others may not. Its really just a stop gap until higher tech solutions become practical for us. Miles- 3421 replies
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PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller
MilesD replied to MilesD's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Just a quick update, I have been fine tuning for weeks now, It has been time consuming and every time I think I am done, something else pops up during testing that just didn't feel right. I just finished a Long DCS tweak session and nothing seemed to jump out at me. I wrote new HID descriptors and we have a much smother cursor movement now. I spent about 4 days on mouse wheel implementation alone. I would write code, test it, not like it, write more code ect. I am satisfied with the result for now. A new feature is moving the FCU closer to the HMS zooms in. It is one of the few things that seemed kinda cool. You can set how close the FCU has to be to zoom in and then how far it has to be to zoom back out, 2 different parameters to make it more user friendly. I will try and get a video up soon. We are getting very close. Deano is right, I don't think the odyssey will be a problem. Thanks Miles- 3421 replies
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