MilesD

Thanks Pac-Man, I really am doing this because I enjoy it. No appreciation or recognition required. Although I would like to clear my initial investment. I enjoy developing PointCTRL because I truly appreciate this community. I felt we were developing this together, and everyone's comments, suggestions, and enthusiasm was improving the design and motivated me. Actively responding and posting also helped me keep focus on the project. I just had no desire to continue to participate when this thread went off the rails. Moving forward. I will post some pics or a short video showing the final button solution and battery on-board charging design update. Thanks Again Miles

Hey Ratcatcher, I just sent a PO for a ridiculous amount of sensors to meet a minimum order. While I am waiting on the latest production PCBs to ship, I am writing the user interface to change the default settings so users can customize things like button presses, led timeout, unit shutdown, battery monitoring, and so on. Thanks for asking. Miles

Okay, I have been really trying to take the high road on this, but the fact that this ridiculous claim and libelous remarks are being repeated is annoying. Thick8, you really should have thought it through before you made such a baseless accusation. You were clearly upset, because you were quoting things that I never even said. If you could please just clarify what I asked you for in my respectful response to your post. What are you claiming of your experimenting or post have I used in PointCTRL?. They only have 1 shared component, an IRLED, and even that is probably a different wavelength. Even if, as Deadman says, I did see your post without remembering, what could I have possibly used from them. Courses of actions we take, or solutions to problems we implement are influenced by the sum of our knowledge and experiences. I don't think there is a person playing DCS in VR who hasn't reached for a switch by mistake thinking they could control it. I have been experimenting and taking apart PS3, Wii, and PC controllers and integrating them with new sensors and atmega microcontrollers for years, and PointCTRL is not a new idea or technology, just a combination of well-established technologies. Thick8, please clarify your accusations. Miles

Sorry for the long post, I am trying to respond to as many questions and suggestions as I can. @ Virus, Thanks for the suggestion. I think eventually there will be no need for PointCTRL as VR Headsets advance. I probably should not even be developing this, but I enjoy the challenge and I think it will be a few years before everything gets integrated into a workable solution for flight sim guys requirements. PointCTRL does not use a standard camera like MVR, it uses an advanced IR sensor with 4k x 4k resolution capable of tracking 16 separate IR sources at 200FPS all independent of the PC. I have NDA's so I am unable to get into more specifics of this new sensor. This is not new technology, just improved. Think of it as an advanced Wii sensor. I may have mentioned this in the You tube comments, I have experimented with using 2 HMD sensors like Leap Motion or the new integrated MVRs that you mentioned. By using two cameras we can then calculate range of the FCU from the HMD. This eliminates the need to "calibrate your arm length" and makes the 1 to 1 ratio movement consistent, regardless of the distance of FCU to HMD. The down side to this that depending where our hardware (joysticks, chairs, desk,) are located, it can make it more difficult because objects are physically in the way of where we need to put our hand to flip a switch. @ Shrike AU, Thanks for the link. That’s very interesting. I just wanted to make PointCTRL independent of any other hardware requirements for compatibility. @ Anita95, I think this was from his you tube comments. You got me thinking about an onboard charger again, so I changed the design, AGAIN and added a port on the FCU to plug the charger into without having to remove the battery. You still maintain the ability to swap out the batteries if one dies during gameplay. @ Thick8, I tried the 5 way switch but found it uncomfortable to use. The one I had, also put a torque on the FCU causing it to rotate on my finger. I can look at other types ,like the one you pictured in the future. The touch-surface had the problem you mentioned with being unsure on what button is being pressed. Thanks for the offer of the dome switches, but I just wasn't happy with the feel of them. The switches I ended up with are easy to identify which is which and the center switch has a slightly lower profile. I will post a pic wen I get a minute. Thanks everyone and its back to work for me, and I will post a pic of the latest, final, final, latest, FCU as soon as I possible. I am really going to try and stop updating things, because my timeline is starting to slide. Miles

The Challenge of locking a 2d cursor to a 3d surface plane or cockpit panel that Thick8 mentions is significant. This has mostly been solved thru optics and math running on the three on-board micro-controllers that PointCTRL employs. I think I will do a video explaining this in more detail. Basically, you can change the default "arm length" to what you are comfortable with, and as long as you keep your hand generally the same distance from the HMD as you move it though its field of view, you will keep the 1 to 1 ratio of real-world hand movement to the 3d environment. Moving your head will only have a small effect on cursor movement and pressing a button even less. I had experience with this balancing act about six or seven years ago when my kids were playing call of duty. In the PC version you could move your aim-point independent of your view. Being a former Green Beret, I said, if you’re going to play this game, you are least going to stand up and hold a real weapon. I then proceeded to take apart a wireless Logitech game controller and replace the pots with photo resistor arrays. Both arrays, one pointed forward and one pointed backward, and the Logitech controller guts were mounted to the top rail of a AR15 carbine. 2 IR emitters were used, one in front of the Flat Screen TV, the other on a worn headband. It kind of worked, If you kept a good check weld and moved the rifle, the aimpoint would move on the screen without the view moving, and if you moved your head independent of the rifle, the view would scroll in the direction you were looking. At that time, I did not have the experience with electronics and programming that I have now. Come to think of it, I think that project got me moving in the direction of this field. PS. After some adult thought, I did move the device to an airsoft M4 carbine replica, and by the time I had it working my kids were interested in something else. Miles

Hey Thick8, Just read your linked post, It looks like you posted almost a year ago, which was well before I started messing with this. I was also incorrect, because you were talking about mouse button implementation. Didn't you post a video too?, I thought I saw one you made. Miles

Hi Thick8, I am sorry you feel slighted, but I was only aware of your experimenting when you posted it in the PointCTRL thread a few weeks ago. I agree that neither of our implementations are genius. While I don't recall the specifics of yours, I think I recall it used a USB camera and freetrack software without any button implementation and talk of gloves. So I am a little confused about what you thought I could of used of your idea. I don't know when you posted, but I was messing around with a working prototype 6 months before I posted. My inspiration was from Leap Motion to mount the camera on an HMD. I don't think it's petty to be upset if you feel someone used your idea and did not give you credit. I am glad you posted what you felt and got it off your chest. Had I been inspired by your experiments I would have enthusiastically let you know and give credit where it was due. I am sure we are not the only two people who have had this exact idea, after all there are not a lot of different ways to track your finger position. So please don't feel slighted and your experiments were a great idea. Miles

Hey Guys, I am waiting for the production FCU PCBs to be delivered. Once I have them populated with components I will post some pics. I have been testing and finalizing the new HMD and I am close to the final design. The initial release of the PointCTRL HMD will be wired with a Micro USB connector. I am still targeting November 1st for pre-release testing to community contributors with general sales beginning in December. @ Chic The camera can be mounted in a stationary position, I do plan on doing an optimized setup for use with a monitor. I have also been experimenting with 2 cameras to add the third dimension of depth for when software titles can support it. Thanks for the input everyone. Miles

I know, but I can hope. I am not really up on the details, just piecing together the following information.I am probably missing the showstopper somewhere. https://developer.nvidia.com/vulkan-driver https://www.khronos.org/blog/vulkan-multi-gpu-support-not-just-for-windows-10 Miles

I have been waiting for Vulkan to implement SLI, followed by DCS implementing Vulkan. Hopefully that's still a thing.

Hey Guys, Just a quick update. I am testing the pre-production FCU prototypes now. I hope to order the production PCBs by the end of the week. I will post a pic of final FCU (Finger Control Unit) design, and the new, and much smaller HMD camera in a few days. My goal is to send out pre-production PointCTRL units for test, evaluation, and feedback to community contributors, and Eagle Dynamics if they want,( I think Wags flys VR ) by the end of October. Based on their feedback, I will make refinements and adjustments to the design and functionality. My goal is to ship production units in December. "Have you looked into using oculus tracking camera for tracking?" @ schurem, thanks for the question. Aside from camera to finger line of sight to issues, one of the design parameters of PointCTRL was to be a completely stand alone device that was recognized as a standard mouse and keyboard without any software running on the PC. Additional I wanted it compatible with any software title that uses a mouse. This would have been difficult for me to achieve using a specific external camera connected to the PC. Another benefit of the stand alone system is zero impact on PC performance, and no additional coding requirement from software titles. "I live in France, is it possible to deliver it to me?" @ lolof1, Thanks for your interest and comments, but I am really not that smart, I just keep breaking things down until I can understand them. Yes I will be shipping worldwide. Thanks again guys, especially for your patience. Miles

New PointCTRL Video up Here is a video demonstrating operation of PointCTRL with 2 FCU's (Finger Control Units) Thanks Ratcatcher for the name !! I Hope to show production prototypes shortly. Thanks Miles

@Icebeat, Thanks but I couldn't get the link to work. I know there are people a lot smarter than me working on these types of devices. I am just focusing on the flight sim community and what can be an effective alternative for us with the current state of simulator software. Thanks again, Miles

Hey Guys, I just wanted to give a quick update on PointCTRL. I have been testing different tactile push-buttons and updating PCB design and code all week. I think I have the finger device nailed down. I really need a name for that part. The original name of PointCTRL was going to be "The Finger" bought to you by "Third Base Industries", but my wife thought it was a little inappropriate. Anyway I am going to try and get another video up tonight showing both finger devices in action as well as rotary knobs and dials. The shorter answer is, after you initiate the mouse button hold on dial, then move the mouse off the dial to adjust feature, Only your finger needs to be in the field of view, not the initial dial or knob cockpit control selection. It works just like the mouse except when you move your head the mouse cursor does not move with your head position and generally stays where you are pointing. This was a great question and I will try and address it in the next video. Its down to the two banks of three buttons in the top of the pic. Miles

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. The finger devices would still be wireless. Ii would only be the HMD camera that had a Micro USB cable. Miles

PointCTRL questions/answers Thanks for the questions, I am back home and will try to answer them. Yes, both fingers are tracked when they are both in the field of view of the camera, however only one is recognized as the mouse pointer. I do plan to implement one and two hand gesture recognition. An example would be moving both fingers simultaneously from bottom center to top center of the field of view to eject. If you are using one finger, and then bring the second finger into the field of view, control will only shift to the second finger after the first finger leaves the of view. Cordite is correct, it comes with both left and right-hand finger devices. PointCTRL is designed for both devices to worn at the same time. The camera mounts to your HMD, so you need line of sight to your finger. I like your work station/gaming area, looks great and very neat. I am in the process of moving mine, so I am temporarily set up in the dining room. It’s a good thing I have a very understanding wife. I would like some input on this from you guys. I can make a micro USB version without a battery and reduce the price by 15 tor 20 USD. Thoughts? Interesting read. Reference knowing where your hands are, after a very short period of getting used to PointCTRL you find yourself just pointing at the control you want to interact with and the mouse pointer is right where you would expect it to be. A quick fine adjustment is then usually required before pressing the button. I am hoping to get production prototypes out to community contributors for testing and evaluation by October and production units by December 1st. I think that about covers it for now. I will try and make another video with both left and right hand production prototype controllers soon. Thanks again for the interest and comments. Miles

Short Video Its 0400 in the morning, but I said I would get a short video out, and I am going away with the wife for a few days. Its short and crappy, but it gives you an Idea how things work. https://youtu.be/wMQqQN1So4M I will answer the unanswered forum questions as soon as I get some free time. Thanks

The panel addon device can connect one or several metallic surfaces, such as thin aluminum sheet or metallic contact paper, and sense when finger contact is made with the surface. The surface is placed approximately where the real-world instrument panels and switch stations of the aircraft would be. Using this addon you have the option to use the pushbutton on the finger device or touch your finger to the panel to activate a mouse click. Current battery life is approximately 10 hours with 20% usage. I am not sure I understand your concern. When you turn your head, but keep your hand still, you will lose sight of the curser because it is no longer in your field of view, just as you would in real life. You can only see your hand when it is within your field of view. My go to test switch is the DECS switch on the AV8, It’s on the rear bulkhead of the cockpit. You have to turn almost all way around in your seat to see it. Once you see it, now you must extend your finger within your field of view to see the curser on the DECS switch. I can appreciate your view on the price point. I had originally thought I would be able to offer PointCTRL at a much lower price, unfortunately, production cost kept adding up. Thanks for the questions Miles

Hey Guys, All great questions, @ Ram0506 Your explanation is exactly how it works. Interactions with rotary knobs are identical to the mouse. A nice unintended feature is that in addition to moving the mouse away from the rotary knob with the mouse button held to rotate it, you can also just press one of the side mounted pushbuttons and rotate your hand left to make the dial rotate left and rotate your hand right to make it rotate right. I only became aware of this feature when I was watching a friend test it, and I asked him why was he was rotating his finger. He said, ”I'm turning the dials,” I said, “It doesn't work that way,” and he said, “Well, I'm turning the dials." Confused, I then watched him continue to change radio frequencies in this manner. I then realized that the IRLED on top of finger device was following an arc as he rotated his hand. This same intuitive rotation of the knob is seen by DCS as moving the mouse away from the knob, therefore rotating the knob. I know that was a long explanation, I should have just said, “Why yes, I designed it so you can rotate your hand to turn knobs.” :) @ Icebeat I don’t have Captogloves, but they appear to be a really great product with a much larger, and varied market than PointCTRL. I personally just don’t feel the current features are compatible with most flight sim requirements. As you referenced, their ability to measure X,Y rotational axis through gyroscopes and accelerometers, and not relative or absolute positional hand tracking, affects their functionality in a cockpit environment. PointCTRL has different design requirements which only focus on flight simulator cockpit interaction and functionality. The major difference between PointCTRL and CaptoGloves is hand tracking. PointCTRL has a micro camera that mounts to the HMD to track your index fingers 2D location relative to the direction of the HMD. Another difference is PointCTRL does not track your finger digits relative to your hand as CaptoGlove does. Early versions of PointCTRL utilized a gyro and accelerometers to measure finger movement. Even though you would flick your finger as you would a real switch to activate it, it just felt unnatural. I then moved on to a small touchpad alongside your finger. This was better, but still felt disconnected. Finally, I implemented my original thoughts to use tactile pushbuttons with a low operating force. I immediately knew this was what I was looking for. Using real pushbuttons allow you to easily identify them, and provide a tactile feedback concurrent with the switch or knob movement on the screen. If I only went with my original design I would have saved a month in development time. PointCTRL only has 2d positional tracking not 3d. Since we are emulating the currently implemented mouse cursor in any game, 3d is not required. All of PointCTRLs operational programming and processing is done on its own microcontrollers (4 of them). You just plug it in and it shows up as PointCTRL in the device manager and is recognized as a HID mouse. It works without any additional software running or sim developer implementation. PointCTRL also does not show your hands on the screen, it only shows the mouse curser that is in the game. Okay, less talk, more work for me. Thanks for the questions, Miles

@ Oesau, I do plan too ship overseas, I have to do a bit more research on the CE certification. @ Blacley, PointCTRL will come with both left and right hand devices, however, you can wear only 1 if you want. I mostly fly helicopters also, but I always put both on because I often end up switching to the MI8, which requires using your right hand also for switches. Thanks for the interest, Miles Update: I cut the latest iteration of some test boards today, and I will be mounting the SMD components tomorrow. These are only to confirm production board design and circuitry. Production boards will be professionally manufactured.

That long post and forgot to mention the price. I know this is a niche market but, I really want to make this as accessible as possible to everyone who wants this . I was originally shooting for $150.00 usd price point, but it is probably going to have to come in around $175.00. The package will include the wireless HMD sensor, 2 wireless wearable rings (left and right index fingers), base station receiver, 6 rechargeable micro lipo batteries (3 extras), and USB charging station. The panel add-on should be around $50.00 usd. Miles

Now Shipping 1 thru 425 for Version 1 from FireCats List https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=690 PointCTRL is an index finger mounted device that enables pilots operating Virtual Reality flight simulators the ability to interact with cockpit controls naturally and intuitively. PointCTRL Kit Includes HMS (Head Mounted Sensor)w/ mount, 2 FCUs (Finger Control Units) w/150mah lipo batteries, 2 USB chargers w/o 5v USB power supply , Fire-resistant FCU case, 10ft Micro USB cable, and assorted attachment supplies. Price $175.00 USD Video Review by Salamander (Airline Pilot and Avid Flight Simmer) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Optional Headset Mounted triple Aux Push-button banks (APB) In Stock Includes 1, 3 button bank, 150mm 4 wire harnes, and VHB double sided mounting tape attached. Price $12.50 USD each To order Auxilly Push Buttons "APB", send an email to orders@pointctrl.com and in the subject line, add Order-APBs in the body write country being shipped to. You will receive a paypal invoice to complete the order. Buttons are hard coded as q,w,e,r,t,y and are assigned in DCS under keyboard just as you would assign any key. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Available Manufacturer Specific HMS Mounts One mount included with kit with VHB double sided tape attached. Oculus CV1 Oculus S Quest 1 Quest 2 HP Reverb G1 & G2 HTC Vive HTC Vive Pro Samsung Odyssey Pimax 5K Valve Index Generic Non VR Static Mount _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Spare Parts Recommended - USB Charge Monitor and and data logger $10.00 None of the spares below are required or necessary, ( PointCTRL Kits comes complete with each of the items below ) HMS Mount Body Only - Specify Type $8.00 HMS Cover - Universal $4.00 FCU Body Only w/strap - Specify left or right $8.00 FCU Front $2.00 10ft/3m Light Weight Braided Micro USB Cable $8.00 USB charger w/o power supply $8.00 150mah Lithium polymer battery $5.00 Lipo Fire Safe Bag $8.00 Shipping U.S. Shipping $6.00 Canada $20.00 Europe $26.00 Australia $26.00 _______________________________________________________________________________________________ How to Order Please follow these steps: 1) Go to http://pointctrl.com and click on the PREORDER tab. 2) Fill out the form and press submit. 3) You will then receive your PayPal invoice when your PointCTRL kit is in final testing. Please check the invoice to confirm your order, if something is wrong, send an email to Carol at orders@pointctrl.com If you missed your number just follow the above procedure and your order will be processed immediately following the current groups. Thanks, Miles _______________________________________________________________________________________________ Links PointCTRL website with Set-Up instructionshttps://pointctrl.com/ FireCat's information links https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...postcount=1149 PointCTRL Support Discord https://discord.gg/jH5FktJ Great user video by Andrew U.K. showing his mocked up panels for even more immersion. Thanks Andrew, Great Stuff!! Old Initial Post Hey Guys, I have been developing a VR mouse emulating device for the past 6 months, and I am close to posting some pics and videos of a working production prototype. I have been using a prototype of this device with DCS for a few months now. Those that fly on the 99th ‘s server are familiar with it. I have not wanted to say anything here because a lot of claims are made and products don’t materialize. But I woke up this morning and said, “why not?”. The device is called PointCTRL, and consists of 2 wireless, wearable index finger devices, a wireless HMD mounted micro tracking camera, and a USB dongle receiver. The ring type devices have three tactile push buttons along the inbound sides, allowing them to be identified and pressed with the thumb. Each ring is tracked in 2d space only, emulating mouse movement and button presses. No external software is required to run PointCTRL, as it is only recognized as a standard HID mouse. Software is provided to customize personal parameters and functions. So basically, instead of searching for the mouse or picking up a secondary controller, you just point at the switch, button, or lever you want to interact with, and then press one of the three tactile switches to operate it. If it’s a control that is mouse clickable, and you can see and point at it anywhere in your 360-degree environment, you can interact with it. A companion product will also be available that simulates touching a cockpit panel. The mouse press is emulated when finger contact is made with the panel, while the position is being tracked by the camera. PointCTRL can also be configured to work with standard monitors. Part of my reason for posting my progress is to help me stay focused on this task, as I tend to get distracted by shiny things. I am going to post pics and possibly a video in 1 week, not 2 weeks, but 1 week. I will try and answer any further questions in a somewhat timely manner, but I only have 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes to get some pics and videos out. Thanks, Miles

I think the way force trim is implemented with our joysticks makes it difficult for new pilots to grasp the dynamics between cyclic position and rotor disk angle. I fly the Huey a lot and I don't use force trim at all, not even for hovering. This is just a personnel preference. The reason is I have muscle memory in relation to stick position and flight dynamics. Fore example, I always know when I am going into a hover, the stick will always be slightly back and to the left of center. I also have a feel for airspeed depending on how far forward and to the right of center the cyclic is. With real world force trim you have this same muscle memory, with our artificial centering of force trim we do not. My point is, you may want to reset your force trim and fly around without it for a while so you can get of feel for what the rotor disc is doing during various flight parameters.

I think Holton may have hit on your problem. When you say "trim" what do you do? Forget about the horizon. Only worry about airspeed and vertical velocity. When you are to fast in level flight you should lower the collective slightly and then ONLY use the cyclic to maintain level flight. Do not touch the collective until you have maintained level flight again. You air speed in level flight(level flight meaning, not gaining or loosing altitude) will be dictated by the amount of collective you have.

Is your physical collective moving proportional to the rendered one in the cockpit? What you are describing does not really make sense otherwise. It is as simple as, at straight and level at 100 knots and want to fly strait and level at 80 knots , you just reduce the collective slightly and reposition the cyclic slightly farther aft. Think of it as, at flight level above approximately 40 knots, more collective = more speed, less collective = less speed.