asla36

Yup, I think it is about time to get back on topic. So how are the close-quarters modes? Talking about close-quarters. I think the MiG-21bis would be able to out-turn it. But it would be better in the vertical and speed department. That's how it went in Vietnam, at least as far as I know. This would be amplified for the MiG-19p with it turning even better and being worse in the vertical.

That would indeed be fantastic! It would also allow for some awesome Cold-War scenarios, being the place of the "Iron Curtain". Sadly those are all still plans, nothing (I don't know about the F4U, correct me if I'm wrong) is actually being developed. At least as far as I know. :(

However I don't see the laws being an issue for a MiG-23/Su-15 module. These old birds are mostly out of service and as far as I know do not contain any super secretive tech. I think a MiG-23/Su-15 module would be fitting in with the F-4 (late variant) in a way that the MiG-19p would not. In an ideal world you would have lets say a Super-Sabre for the MiG-19p and the F-4 (late) MiG-23 pair. But on the other hand if we would get an earlier model F-4 then the MiG-19p would be historically accurate opposition. With lacking BVR armament, but better in a dogfight. :) But first we would of course have to get those birds (we are already getting the MiG-19p! :D)... So plez!

Now the question remains, where is the next WW2 going to be? :D

Yup, but we sadly don't have any Japanese WW2 aircraft in the game. So FW-190 and BF-109 it is for opponents. It still could do quite well as a fighter in my opinion. I think P-38 players would focus on high altitude when patrolling, and low altitude high speed runs when attacking. Though you never know the DCS community. We like to do some strange things... ;) Though to be honest any bird is welcome in DCS, if it is a high enough quality module. And of course I tend to have a bit of a bias towards both RED and WW2 birds, just because wo don't have much of them. Meanwhile we could also use some new helicopters. The Mil-24 seems to be in development (correct me if I'm wrong), so that's both a RED bird and a helo. :D My choices for modules we need (well sorta, it's basically a wishlist): - AH-1/64 (we don't have a BLUE attack helicopter*) - MiG-23/29[early] or Su-15 (we don't have a full fidelity late Cold-War/modern RED fighter) - Su-22/24/25 (we don't have a full fidelity RED late Cold-War/modern striker) - F6F or F4F/A6M2 or Ki-43/Yak-1 or La-5 (we don't have Pacific** or, BF-109 and WF-190 aside, Eastern front WW2 aircraft) - Any bomber: B-52; Tu-95; Tu-22M; B-1; Tu-160 (as we don't currently have one) * I wouldn't count the Gazelle as a full on attack helo (like the Ka-50) since it's limited armament. ** P-51 is way more famous for it's role in the Western Front and did not play a huge role in the Pacific due to it not being a carrier aircraft. But those are all just dreams. I would also like to point out that I did not take into account every module that is being developed because the list would be even bigger and even more unrealistic to ever happen! For example no Super-Sabre, though that would be needed for the MiG-19p. :) *EDIT* I would like to further point out that I took any aircraft that is currently being developed (that I know of) off the list. For example the F/A-18.

Sadly yes, getting info on modern Russian birds without a military contract is almost impossible. And I don't see it getting better. So unless ED gets another military contract we are not going to see one. Though Cold-War era Russian birds are a different story. They are a bit easier to get information on since they are out of service with the Russian air forces. So a MiG-23 or Su-15/22 module shouldn't be that difficult to make. Though I don't think RED modules should be given priority, it certainly would be nice to see some more in the game. But that's up to ED and the 3-rd parties, we can only hope for our favorite birds to make their way into DCS. Things are getting better for both teams as the modules come out. RED is getting the MiG-19p and BLUE is getting the F/A-18, AV-8N/A, and F-14 in the near future. So it is going to be an amazing time for simulations! And the RAZBAM MiG-23 "conflicting with already existing plans" sounds a bit like we are going to get one by someone else... But as the F/A-18 would create a situation where RED wouldn't have an upfront counter, the MiG-19p would create a simular situation as well. So Super Sabre? Anyways this is the F-4 thread, not a wishlist. So I better get back on track. So how are the close quarters modes for the F-4?

If you want an upcoming 2-seat attack aircraft, the A-29 is for you! Though of course it's a bit slower than the Tommy... ;) But a 2-seat attacker would indeed be a nice experience. I have certainly felt the need for a 2. seat in the AJS-37 while doing RB-04 attacks. Staying lower than 10m and targeting at the same time can be a bit tricky. In the end I really should do more prepping, cuz winging it then is a bit difficult! :D Which is the reason the AJ(S)-37 was originally designed as a 2-seat aircraft. But then they decided against it because the new computers brought the workload just under the limit of which 1 person can do.

Would indeed be a dream thing, but I'm hoping for something Russian next. I also think that it is the most likely candidate for what they are cooking... Maybe a Japanese or Russian WW2 era bird next? Anyways my favorite option would be a MiG-23 or Su-15, with the Su-24, Su-22, and Mil-24 coming in at a close second. But the P-38 would be an awesome bird to have as well! With it's for the time quite capable multi-role capability and amazing speed it will for sure be very good. Also the 2 engines should also offer some interesting scenarios where you return to base on only one. So it should be a capable heavily armed fighter with quite heavy attack capabilities and awesome speed for it's time. Also take into account the good performance at altitude and you have a bird that can do everything! From fast low level attack to escort duties this bird will be truly awesome! That is if we get it... So please, someone make it! Someone also make a MiG-23! Which I hope is currently being made because RAZBAM making one "conflicted with already existing plans"... :D Though with my biases I would give priority to the MiG-23. ;)

Thought the link doesn't seem to work...

Thanks!

Thanks for clearing that up!

Thanks for the info! But that's basically how we RED pilots play. We sneak, mask, and stealth murder! :3 And with the exception of the MiG-23P and 3-rd world exports all the A-A variants including the MiG-23M/MiG-23MLD had an IRST sensor and could equip IR-MRM/SRM's. Which makes ambushing much easier. Also if you take into account a perfect vertical turn with no extra maneuvers and a constant AoA (totally unrealistic in an actual dogfight) the MiG-23 would slowly win. However if any other energy consuming maneuvers were to be introduced (in any realistic dogfight) the F-16 would be the clear winner. :thumbup: At least if my sources and understandings are correct... I wonder how picking the target up in ground clutter is going to work for the RIO on the F-4? There were many story's about not being able to find a bandit when at low altitude against a lot of ground clutter. How much better has it gotten over the years? Also how was the EW suite? The Vietnam-Era Phantoms had pretty lacking ones, but how much was it improved? Looking forwards for both amazing planes! BTW has anyone seen the low poly render pics of an Su-15 in the "Ln's fourth aircraft after F-14: MiG-23 or Su-22?" thread...

Do you have info on if the swing-wings can only be placed in fixed presets (slow speed flight; medium speed flight; high speed flight), or can be controlled by a sort of axis? Thanks for the reply in advance! I myself have a personal preference for planes with high workload and potential. Weather is is proper wing geometry management in the MiG-23 to theoretically beat an F-16 in a dogfight or working the radar hard in the F-4 to gain the advantage of being pretty much the king of the BVR-hill (if it is an earlier scenario). Or trying to desperately lock a target among all the ground clutter, if you have to work hard in order to get awesome performance (at least for the time) in my opinion it provides longevity. After all training the proper wing geometry management and pilot-REO teamwork is going to take time, but that's what provides longevity. :D So I have my hopes up for both awesome planes! Can't wait to fly them against each other, that is if they ever get developed...

Thanks for clearing that up, will fix my original post and leave you credit! :D Also that pic about the Su-15 looks very promising indeed, if it wasn't just to "shut you up" of course. ;) Though I, and I am positive that many fellow simmers, would indeed like to see that become a thing! Will be so awesome, and hopefully not just to make someone stop... Gotta hope, gotta hope! Also, which dev?

Thanks for clearing that up! Do you also have info about the range it goes "Pitbull"? It is certainly going to be a heck of a blast learning the AWG-9 operation and target engagement! :D

Also is there something i'm missing? Because engine No. 2 is being pretty lazy in it's afterburner usage! >:[ Or just due to the lackluster modelling, after all it's a placeholder. But that begs the question, is the MiG-23MLD model as well... I would sure like to see the MiG-23MLD model be a placeholder in exactly the same way! :D Getting my hopes aside here's the place to walk the Turkey walk, and talk the Turkey talk.

Thank you so much for making it! And that's why you have terrain masking with IRST+IR-MRM/SRM. :D I wonder how are the AIM-54's going to be effected by notching/nap of the Earth flying? After all it's attack profile (theoretically) makes notching much easier with it's range increasing climb. Putting itself in a position where ground clutter is going to be maximal. Welp, I don't think players will find much use in purely the AIM-54 against fighters other that spamming it at range and then making a run for it. But it will be a massive help putting the enemy in a position of massive stress at the beginning of a BVR engagement. So they will be lower on energy and your sparrows can finish the job. Or if the MISSiles are gonna miss go in for the dogfight. As the turkey seems to be mighty good at those! :thumbup:

They sure do! :D

Those photos aren't working... :(

The MiG-23ML would then be the ideal middle ground, thx! Though the MiG-23MLD R-73+R-24T temptation is always there. You can still properly sneak with even the MiG-23M, as it still has IRST+IR-MRM/SRM. So MiG-23ML would be a great full fidelity sneaking aircraft! :D But now let's get back on track, F-4 talk it is!

Now to stop speaking about the wrong aircraft, how was the workload shared among the pilot and RIO? Will be interesting to see how this would work compared to the F-14 that we are going to get. But first we would have to actually get the F-4 of course, so plez! :D

Yeah, that's the thing with it performing horribly/nicely in a stall. Though for a new player it offers it's very own devilish trap. After all if you start to all of a sudden turn slower in a turn-fight the instinctive reflex is to increase back-pressure. Thank you for that! :D

So, currently I am tied between the MiG-23M and MiG-23MLA/D. One's the true iconic retro original, and the other will be awesome to have against modern thingies... Dunno which is better! :D And as for secondary options below the MiG-23 in my wanted modules list is the Su-15 for fighters and Su-22/24 for strikers. Here's something stolen from the Wikipedia about the Su-15... :devil_2: AIRCRAFT: Su-15TM (just thought it to be important to mention that it is the Su-15TM variant) AVIONICS: "Taifun-M" Detection range: high/low flying targets 70km/15km Lock range: high/low flying targets 40km/10km Detection envelope: +30°/-10° Vertical; +/- 70° Horizontal WEAPONS: 2x R-98MR/MT (Range: 23km); 4x R-60 (Range: 8km); optional 2x gun pods (a practical must because as far as I know it did not carry a gun) WING LOADING: 555 kg/m² CLIMB RATE: 228 m/s COMBAT RANGE: 1,380 km MAX SPEED: Mach 2.1 (2,230 km/h) loaded at high altitude; Mach 2.5 clean at high altitude SERVICE CEILING: 18,100 m And just for comparison and for an argument why the MiG-23 is my favorite choice. Again, stolen from Wikipedia... :devil_2: (yup, again) AIRCRAFT: MiG-23MLD (again thought it to be important to mention aircraft variant with the aerodynamic upgrades on the MiG-23MLD) AVIONICS: "Sapfir-23MLA-II (radar)"; "TP-23ML (IRST)" Detection range ("Sapfir-23MLA-II" as the "TP-23ML" depended on the level of heat more than range): High/low flying targets >65/25 (fighter sized) Detection envelope: no data I could find WEAPONS: 1x Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23L cannon (200 rounds); 6x? R/T-23 (Range: 35km); 6x? R/T-24 (Range: 35km); 6x? R-60 (Range: 8km) Upgraded: 6x? R-73 (Range: 30km) WING LOADING: 420 kg/m² CLIMB RATE: 240 m/s COMBAT RANGE: 1,150 km MAX SPEED: Mach 2.32, 2,445 km/h at high altitude; Mach 1.14, 1,350 km/h at sea level SERVICE CEILING: 18,500 m

That AI patience is admirable. Cap, can you make a Flogger-Tommy match? See how the swing-wings match!?!? Sadly there's indeed a catch... As of the current patch, Both models are quite ugly. And for a chance I would pay fondly, To learn these magnificent birds. As for now, I only have words. So please as is coming the Tommy, Not getting the MiG is not that funny! >:[ That went from commenting about the AI, to wishing for a video, and then wishing for the MiG-23! :D

The MiG-21bis sorta gets the advantage here because if you pull stick full back, you're gonna stall... And oh does the MiG-21bis not behave in a stall, well it actually sorta does. You see a stall with high stick deflection in a MiG-21bis takes it's time in moving the nose (which is why you get the instinct to re-center the stick the moment your aircraft starts to turn slower in a tight turn). After let's say 1 or 2 seconds you start hearing really scary noises as the AoA increases, the plane slows, but the nose doesn't move anywhere. And then you just drop... And drop... And really start regretting not re-centering the stick fast enough... Now at low altitudes that "nose up drop" is a death sentence because you need a lot of altitude with the stick centered to regain control. And if you keep that nose up, you ded. Now after one time of that "DCS: horror story" you quickly learn to "ride the yellow". Which allows you to turn quick for what is practically an unlimited time in a fight (as long as you have fuel). :D