Vortex

Yep there is no VRS diagrams in the English manual, and surprisingly also no H/V diagram either. I understand the aerodynamics behind VRS and have had training entering and exiting it. It just seems odd that I entered VRS at an air speed of over 36 knots, which shouldn't happen.

Wolfast whats the f-16 got to do with a KA50 airshow? Of course the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds fly without live ammo, it would be stupid to carry them in such an uncontrolled environment. Airshows do simulate combat and ground attacks, so if you are flying a sim why not perform a real attack. "Booms" are not easy if performed unguided whilst maneuvering, a piloting skill I believe! :lol: Yep, I know I'm asking alot. I'll try get something together this week, just some moves I find more interesting. Tusler, I've seen that before, wow you worked on that thing! A Bell 206 was once looped for a crowd in South Africa I think, Bell wasn't too happy when they found out the operator was still flying it.

The videos of KA50's I've seen do nothing for me. And not one has even done a turn around the tail while holding the centre line of a runway travelling at 20 knot's at 10 feet. To impress me you also need to follow these rules. Rule: No autopilot's, this is not a fly by wire machine and as such if you want to show me you have skill, you need to be flying the machine 100%. RULE: Rockets are a must, you aren't flying civilian aircraft, and how else are you going to show your weapons skills? RULE: Don't do those stupid full pedal hover max climbs everyone seems to do, they require no skill, hell it takes more skill to hold heading and the exact spot over the ground while climbing, or in a 500 foot hover.

Agreed! 100% realism, only time I crash is if I'm shot down, pushing the flight envelope, or when my wingman cuts off my tail boom like in the mission I had last night :joystick: /CRASH!!! I have some issues that in a perfect world would be addressed, but I congratulate ED for their creation.

I was playing around with wind speeds set at 25m/s and turbulence set at maximum (6m/s) after reading this thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35978 Now it's been bugging me that it's a little easy to enter VRS, given my ex military instructors said that sometimes they simply could not demonstrate it when they tried. But one thing is for sure it's very odd that with an air speed of at least 36 knots I can enter VRS. I had zero ground speed at the time so can anyone from ED confirm that the VRS model is not based on AS but GS?

Nice control! Just gave it a go then. The hardest part is not the cyclic or pedals, but the collective, you are constrantly going up and down the full range of motion fighting the extreme variance in lift (unrealistic?), oddly I also seemed to suffer VRS. It highlights something that has been bugging me about the VRS modelling and I'll ask about it in general discussion. It doesn't seem to matter what your airspeed is (in this case 36-60 knots accounting for turbulence), you only enter VRS when around zero ground speed.

Ahh but it's a DX4, I think they ran at 100mhz! Not the average 486 SX that ran at 33mhz or even the 486 DX that shot along at 66mhz! /disclaimer, actual figures may be incorrect due to failing memory :smilewink:

Tapping the wheel brakes should be done directly after takeoff before raising the landing gear anyway I think. That's how it's done in the real world with retractable undercarriage aircraft. Centrifugal force and the change in the center of axis as it retracts creates a twisting motion putting a lot of strain on the structure. Plus if the wheel contacts the wheel housing while spinning it can also lead to damage.

Yeah hands off the controls, feet on the floor. He was in that position when they think your going to try kill them, ready to grab the cyclic :lol: I was more pleased with the second flight when he let me land in the prime position right out the front of the school. Nerve wracking stuff landing a few metres from a building you know everyone is watching, it was a reasonable landing from what I remember given the relief and joy I felt. Funny thing is during my flight test I couldn't maintain a 60 knot attitude in the circuit :doh: I still passed but I just thought I'd mention that being able to hover so early didn't really mean anything, I just happened to try the correct level of input earlier on.

:huh: Can you explain this further?

It's been done by a couple of people at the training school I attended. My first go in a heli (an R22) at a hover on my first flight, I held it stationary and could position left or right over a spot, landed on the grass then tookoff again, my instructor used to say I was "blessed by the hover fairy", I wish I was blessed with the 180 auto fairy instead! It took me a while to get that right. But it's alot different to taking off cold with no feel for the control effects one at a time. I would have crashed for sure if the instructor got in started it up and said "right raise the collective and lets takeoff to the hover"

Correctomundo! But don't argue with Bell about it! I don't fly a 206, it's an R44 actually so I have plenty of tail rotor authority. I'd love to be flying a 412 and 139, nice :thumbup: I use the term LTE as it's simply easier to type than "an uncommanded yaw to right". Tub Matheson gives a great presentation on the subject. He was the test pilot for the US army along with Bell when they where trying to figure out why all the 206's kept crashing and find out what is the best control inputs to recover.

Yep, or are you disagreeing with me? Either way that's what I was talking about. I was confusing myself a little with the terminology as I was trying to remember "Phase Lag" but that's different.

We are not talking about cessna 172 here. A helicopter will kill you if you simply let it do what it wants, unlike a 172 that will happily keep flying.

If one of the DCS staff answers this, can they also tell us if "compressibility" in the advancing blade is also modelled? Just did a run with immortal mode. RBS is likely to be modelled given I had un-commanded nose up attitude when at speeds way over VNE, I didn't get any nose down moments. But just because I couldn't incite compressibility doesn't mean it isn't there. BTW RBS in a conventional heli induces a nose up attitude, so I can't see why a co-axial should be any different given the effect is from gyroscopic precession (or whatever the terms given to the effect 90 degrees after the event).

Exactly, BS is just like stepping into a new Heli type. Everything feels very familiar, you just need to readjust your timing, like stepping into a Jetbox after flying an R22. In this sim you cannot learn the timing necessary with control inputs. It's not that hard though really, and everyone gets the takeoff, hovering and landing within 5 hours. I got the hang of hovering in my first flight, then taxiing and landing in my second flight :smartass: But so had my instructor, back in the days before flight sims had been invented:book:

Do not rush the landing approach. Setup an approach at 60 knots 1 mile form the landing site at 600 feet AGL (as you learn the setup picture you can start from much higher or lower heights with the corresponding speeds). Use a point on the windshield to use as your aiming point. Keep your landing spot at this point and keep the speed coming down. At 250 feet AGL you should be at 30-25knots. Any slower and you risk losing tranlational lift early, and any faster you risk having to arrest your speed at the landing site to quickly and using excess power. If the landing spot goes below the spot on the windshield, raise the collective a little, and vise versa if it goes above. To give you an idea of how fast you should be travelling. In real life you want the ground speed below to look like a fast walk, as you get closer this effect slows you down. How this tranlates to you on the PC is purely up to you. Just remember that as you descend you need to keep the speed coming down slowly so that your rate of descent is decreasing. Once the landing site goes under your nose aim 10 meters ahead to help you "reach" your landing spot and not come up short. You can hold in a 10 foot hover over this spot until you feel comfortable to touch down. Important, land into the wind! This desciption is a little misleading, the landing needs have a headwind component (even if it's at a angle), but only to the ground effect hover, after this you can land any direction you feel comfortable. Remembering that if power is critical you may want to point the nose into wind for touch down. People make the mistake of thinking a normal landing is a "quick stop" followed by a touchdown, because that's what you see on tv and it looks cool. Quickstops are fun, especially "flare and turn's" but they are not how you approach a landing.

When I said "obviously LTE is not implemented" I wasn't complaining about it not being implemented for the KA50 ;) What I meant is I wish we had a heli with a tail rotor as it's a big reason helicopters are so damn hard to fly. Fly one on a day with no wind and you are a god, you can pirouette around the nose, center and tail as you taxi perfectly, even around intersection corners. But add a 10-20 knot gusty wind and these smick maneuvers increase in difficulty 100X. The real consequence of course is that your margins become smaller and limits need to be managed. Shrubbo I will try that later!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fixed wing is alot different to rotary. People who have never flown a rotary always struggle to maintain all three controls. Sure they may have the collective in check and the pedals, but as soon as that cyclic starts misbehaving (usually after 3-4 sceonds) they forget about the pedals and start bucking all over the place. Remember the KA50 is coaxial, so BS sim pilot's have no concept of the correlation of power applied and the resulting torque, let alone the effect of wind on the tail rotor. It's a fine balance and the lack of a tail rotor makes the KA50 alot easier to handle than a conventional heli. But still deadly to anyone without real world experience.

I can't comment on the KA50. But being a dodo sim pilot before I got my commercial rotary license helped, I got up to speed very quickly. But and I am 100% certain that if any sim pilot, no matter how good tried to fly a real helicopter without an instructor would certainly crash. Fixed wing on the hand, I think a good sim cessna 172 pilot could fly a Cessna 172. Not at all well, but they could. A 172 is easy to land, but to land well is actually surprisingly difficult. In real life VFR flying you spend alot of time flying attitudes, not instruments. Sim pilots spend too much time looking at gauges and find it very hard to transition at first to visual flying. Flying by the seat of your pants is also a myth, you will crash if you fly by the seat of your pants if you lose visual cues.

Not everything ;) LTE is obviously not implemented (only weather cocking of course) Well as much as a coaxial Heli is cool, I would love a heli with a tail rotor with this sim. Fighting a heli while the tail rotor is losing control effectiveness due to the wind being in the azimuth of tip vortice's or tail rotor VRS is the biggest challenge you can have while in a hover in a heli. And it will sure get you dancing on those torque pedals :fear: It's something Fixed wing pilot's can't even imagine.

The AXIS setup is the first highlighted option in the dropdown box and is a common thing to miss. Then after that you need to assign an axis, you do this by not actually clicking and using the axis but by clicking on add and using another drop down box. It's not very helpful that you don't know what axis you are actually assigning without going into the Axis tune setup and checking every single one, I have about 20 to choose from and so does everyone else probably :joystick:

Trigger, I sent you a pm as I also need the FFB2 driver. I have FFB in the plug and play setup of XP but as soon as a flight loads up in BS the FFB goes dead.

Wasn't it overpitching and not VRS that caused the uncontrolled descent? I think it's similar to this video, where the main rotor droops but the pilot drops the collective to bring up the RRPM and can then cushion the landing. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=tsDSvcEDCgg&feature=related

lol yeah, I don't often need to write feet per minute, so I just reverted to the old FPS not picking up on my mistake! Just thinking about 300 feet per second reminds me of the old ATC story. I forget the call signs but no doubt everyone has heard the story in some shape or form. An ATC is working an area over america when cessna requests a 10 500 feet cruise, then almost straight after a flight requests FL680, the ATC responds with "If you think you can get that high then go right ahead" it was responded with "Flight ### descending from FL800 to FL680" It was an SR71 :D