DeltaMike

Yeah exactly. Looking out the 3/9 line it's not so much like a strobe effect, it looks a little blurry. Not sure we get rid of that completely until we can run at 120hz or more. Interesting commentary here from a filmmaker's perspective.

©Baldrick33 Agree. Minecraft is what makes me puke, it's the movement without vestibular input that sets me off I think. Problem for my experiment is, people get tolerant quickly. Gotta find me some newbies

Working on it. Suspect frames doesn't tell the whole story. Or even most of the story. I didnt even bother to post frames in my last benchmark and I'll bet you see more of that. Even render times are technically irrelevant here, since the action is taking place beyond the point where we can measure Thanks for the MP benchmarks. Important and highly relevant work. My feeling is, undersampling hurts spotting distance. Possible this mod will give someone a competitive edge in MP if it allows them to run at native resolution with a high res hmd. Considering there are only four GPUs on the market that can drive a G2 at native resolution in svr, that's big news. One of the major contributors is rocking a 3070. This is a game changer even if FPS doesn't improve a bit

OpenXR reprojection isn't any worse than SVR's version

I don't see how any of this could help in MP. We are trying to figure out how many pixels we can render, basically. As defined by physical pixels in the headset, resolution settings, PD, even some forms of anti-aliasing. In MP people are typically bottlenecked by RAM or CPU before they map the first pixel.

Yeah I just broke the Toolkit out this morning to try in MSFS. Cranked up the graphics and flew in real time / real weather. Did a low pass over my house. It was great. Just had to imagine all those old gomers coming out, shaking their fist at the sky. That rascal Delta up there in his F18 making noise. Again. Flying MSFS and DCS back to back in OpenXR shows what a great job ED has done with VR optimization. Kind of a shame to hide that behind WMR4SVR just saying

If you have a Reverb, and you've been experiencing motion sickness in VR, I'd be interested in your thoughts about the OpenXR mod. Studies suggest the main variable in VR sickness is latency. In other words, the total amount of time that passes between when an action occurs, and the result is displayed in the monitor. Perhaps the most relevant action here would be head rotation. If the world doesn't stop spinning when you do, reach for the bag. So this is what the sequence of events would look like in a G2 running under the SteamVR runtime: Headset detects movement. Signal travels down the wire and through the bus to the CPU. CPU starts doing the math, and passing the results to the GPU. GPU starts figuring out what pixels to turn on. (Ideally these two processes will occur as much in parallel as possible). At this point, DCS and Steam are done with their work. Now it's up to WMR4SVR to pass information from Steam to WMR for processing. WMR distorts the image (so it looks right behind those crazy lenses) and passes that information to the display. That information travels down the wire to the headset. Pixels are turned on. To measure how well we are doing latency wise, we typically look at render times, and the derivative of that, FPS (with render time being a far more accurate measurement). Note, we can only measure steps 2 through 3, everything else is a mystery. And in particularl, some kind of tomfoolery seems to be happening at step 4, in the way Steam hands stuff off to WMR. Most of us experience that as stuttering. You may experience it as nausea AND stuttering. (Life is grand.) One way around that is to figure out a way to run DCS using OpenXR, the same runtime the Microsoft Flight Simulator uses. Your headset likes OpenXR, it runs it natively and doesn't need a translator. My theory is, bypassing WMR4SVR should reduce latency considerably. If so, perhaps it would cause less motion sickness. I'd be really interested to know what you think.

^Yeah. So latency is the total time from when an action occurs and the result shows up in your monitor. I'm interested in that because it's a key variable in VR sickness. Any time something is standing around waiting, you're increasing latency. That's the point of VR optimization, it reduces the amount of time the GPU is standing there doing nothing. Kinda hard to get away from the idea that WMR4SVR is increasing latency. You're putting something in between my GPU and my headset. It almost has to, doesn't it?

I was just keeping a low profile while you and Edmuss did all the heavy lifting lol. Yall did such a service for the DCS community, your efforts and generosity with your knowledge are greatly appreciated. @Al-Azraq I was wondering if it's more of a latency issue. All we can measure is render time; once steam lets go of it, who knows what kind of shenanigans are going on. Not sure how we could test that, except I would predict more motion sickness in SVR/WMR than with OpenXR

Well well well. First impressions: WHOA! Haven't done any benchmarking or anything but the amount of judder on the 3-9 line is dramatically reduced (I have motion smoothing off). There's still judder but it looks like in the movies, more of a blurring than a stuttering. I'll take it. I get the feeling there is something fundamentally fubar about the WMR/SVR interface that render times and FPS isn't quite getting at. I'm showing 50fps on the deck on the PG map (which is nothing to sneeze at) but the amount of stuttering is but a fraction of what I would have expected at that frame rate. Likewise and maybe even more obvious when you do a snap roll. Put it this way, at 50fps in OpenVR I'd be turning on motion reprojection as fast as my fingers could fly. Really no need here. Which is good, because motion reprojection in OpenXR isn't any better than WMR's version imo (based on flying around in MSFS. Which is a hot mess.) I don't miss ReShade, don't feel like I particularly need it here. Maybe it's just placebo but it just kinda looks better. I agree, shimmering is less. I've been spending a lot of time over Vegas benchmarking recently, and I must say, NTTR is looking good and it's just weirdly smooth. I did exactly what Nikoel said and it worked on the FIRST TRY. This is literally the only thing that's ever worked on the first try for me, in VR, ever. Read the instructions, folks. Dear Steam VR. I think we should start seeing other people. Thanks for my shadows back, Nikoel. Hate to sound like a wuss, but dangit. I want shadows.

Appreciate Speed-of-Heat's concerns about CPU limitations, one option is to test this stuff out on an empty caucasus map and at least get your GPU tuned. No way you're gonna be able to drive MSAAx4 with that GPU. I would suggest turning that off altogether, run Steam resolution back up to 100% and take her for a spin. Forest visibility should about match vis range, you can back off a little on that. Maybe a lot Might gain a little by backing off on "resolution" That said, your settings aren't very aggressive, other than the MSAA thing. You should be able to hold at least 45fps down low to the ground, probably quite a bit more if you get rid of it. Now the question is, do you want anti-aliasing, and if so, how bad do you want it? You can try post-processing. Check out ReShade (there's a thread below) and you could try SMAA or FXAA. Neither one is great, but they don't cost many milliseconds. If you absolutely must reduce resolution to be able to fly with the settings you need, start dialing down Steam resolution until it starts working. If you still find yourself below 80%, check out one of the fholger scaling mods, like the VR Performance Toolkit. It should handle scaling a bit better than WMR and may give you a better picture. I'm not a huge fan of downscaling just so you can run MSAA -- I think it causes a blurry mess -- but then I'm up at 15000 feet trying to spot stuff on the deck. I'm sure you have different needs, but perhaps this approach might at least clarify things for you. ETA: Oh yeah the OpenXR mod. Now that would make sense with MSAA.

My bad. I meant to try without the fholger mod. Lol after all that.

If you click "advanced control" it'll give you editable numbers. Adrenaline isnt exactly user friendly but that's where you need to go. 19ms ain't bad, it's the spikes that are killing you Yeah you can turn fpsVR off, pull up the steam console (right controller, button with three lines)

Click "advanced control" to get at voltage and clock speed settings Spikes are probably coming from your clock settings, but, yes fpsVR does cause stutters.

If anybody finds this helpful, these are my settings for VRTK Circle radius 0.4 seems to work for my G2. Sharpening: I'm using CAS. Sliders generally to the left. 0.22 Contrast Adaptation 1.0 Sharpening Intensity 0.2 Contrast clamping. Color Correction: I'm using Contrast & Saturation, which is easy-peasy. Just adjust to your liking. Antialiasing: (FXAA). Settings taken from discussion in ReShade Forum 0.75 Subpix 0.16 Edge Detection Threshold 0.8 Darkness Threshold Comments: CAS isn't the best sharpening tool in ReShade, but I think in DCS, with a high res headset, we don't really want a lot of sharpening and at low settings, honestly CAS is as good as any. Easiest way to tune this is by using the VR mirror, press "Home" to see the settings. I'd start by keeping Sharpening Intensity at default 1.0. Slide "Subpix" around until you like it. Then slam Contrast Clamping all the way to the left, and ease it slightly to the right until you see the sharpening take effect. The combination of sharpening and contrast really makes the MFD's look good imo. For FXAA, I'd leave Edge Detection Threshold and Darkness Threshold at 0.16 and 0.8, but you can adjust the Subpix slider to your preference. FXAA is nothing to scream about, SMAA is a bit better in my estimation for a couple of reasons. Among them, FXAA will slightly degrade spotting ground targets. But, VRTK is designed to be efficient, and that, it does.

90fps? Wow!!! Just goes to show what a dog WMR4SVR is

@CybrSlydr You have a 6800XT? Couple of things -- Check your Adrenaline settings, you want to set your minimum clock speed to within a couple hundred of maximum. That won't affect your average framerate very much but it'll iron out a lot of spikes. (See pic 1) Screw the whales. You probably don't have quite enough stonk to run MSAA. Not without giving up something else, like shadows. As an alternative, if you really want anti-aliasing, check out the ReShade suite of post processing effects. Their SMAA effect definitely does something, it's in the general neighborhood of what MSAAx2 looks like at a third of the cost. You should be able to run SMAA and a couple of other effects, if you want, without difficulty. But if even that is kicking your GPU's butt, try VR Toolkit. Hit me up for settings. It has a lot of features (anti-aliasing, contrast, color saturation, sharpening) and does it all in one pass, only costs you about 1.3ms which is noice ReShade is hours of fun. Easy install, works right out of the box with SVR, it even puts an icon on your Steam dashboard to bring up settings (see pic 2). Check "Performance Mode" to activate the effects you have chosen. Uncheck "Performance Mode" to tweak the effect. Uncheck the effects to turn them off.

Agree. Still possible to make it choke maxing everything out. Gotta start with a baseline imo

Not sure I follow the logic in using fholger mod here. You should be able to drive the G2 at native resolution and have plenty left over, with fewer jaggies. I'd ditch VRTK and try SMAA with default settings and predication turned on. Compare that to msaa and see which one you like better Match tree vis to vis range. You should be about 70-80%. Bump up your gamma a little. Dunno what to tell you about clouds,. What do you think? I like lumasharpen a lot. A little of that goes a long way. Color and contrast to suit, done Try this. 100/100/1.0, native res. SMAA first, sharpening filter next, color last. MSAA off. Vegas and Dubai should look ok, everything else will look great, spotting will be maximized and your rig should be fast as stink. I can do that in my rig, and it runs. Yours should fly.

^Are you looking for this thread? Apologies if this is too basic for ya, but perhaps worth reviewing the terminology, which is getting a bit confusing -- VR Performance Kit -- fholger's scaling application for Steam VR, that improves performance at the cost (theoretically) of image quality. (Not much!) VR Tool Kit -- A utility included in ReShade that makes things look better in VR. It costs performance. (Not much!) Shader effects (like ReShade) work at the level of Steam to improve appearance. For example, the shade of colors displayed. (But also contrast, special effects, and even anti-aliasing). Costs a few milliseconds. So far, seems stable and easy to use, but it's still pretty new. Shader mods (like the Kegetys mod) work at the level of DCS to change certain textures, to improve performance. Saves a bunch of milliseconds. These have been around forever, and people swear by these things but they are a lot of work to maintain.

Wait what? Smell-o-vision is real? This is the grail we seek. Sort of, check the specs. G2 resolution in wide screen mode, 60ppd in narrow mode. What's another 11 grand, right In other news, Texas A&M finally got the memo. They should have visited ED forums first.

Yeah, although if I were ED, I don't know that I would budget for that. The main benefit in integrating FSR is, it allows you add overlays after the fact. So I could see the advantages in, I dunno, Deus Ex? So all that crap at the bottom of the screen doesn't have to go through scaling. I'll bet DCS would just as soon have the compositor handle all that, which isn't their problem. Maybe Steam will pick it up. I mean, fholger already did all the work for em. Now that would be an improvement. Get rid of those ridiculous sliders and just give us a choice of four modes: Ultra, Quality, Performance, and Potato. Life would be sooooooo much easier. (I read somewhere that "potato" is an actual setting in the Pimax runtime C'mon, Steam! Don't let Pimax win the "features" race!)

SCORE! Yeah that's what happened to me. I was adding up all the stuff I would need to buy to make the Quest 2 DCS-capable, and figured I'd save money with the G2. In spite of the aggravation -- and there's a lot -- I'm glad I did it. Thud's guide is the most comprehensive to getting started -- tuning is another matter -- but it's not easy to follow and I would not recommend even looking at it until your headset arrives. Print it out and follow the instructions as you go. My advice is, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Chunk it out. First, get your headset up and running. Go through the WMR setup and try to enjoy it. WMR is actually pretty cool. Plenty of work for your first day. Then, get Steam VR up and running. Just get yourself to the point where you can play around in Steam Home. This is pure drudgery but in the end it'll be worth it. Thud's guide is good here. Plenty of work for your second day. Finally, just get the thing running in DCS. Set Steam resolution at 80%, pixel density at 1.0, and use the VR presets. Take her for a spin and delight in your accomplishment, which is considerable. Then we'll work on getting you tuned. Nobody ever listens to this advice. They get themselves all twisted up -- resolution settings going every-which-way; every slider slammed all the way to the right; umpteen mods they don't understand (which is fair enough, nobody understands those things) -- and then log on to the forums to gripe about ED's VR optimization. Don't be that guy. Smooth is fast.

F16 training using mixed reality I was surprised so many are asking for wider FOV, I'd a thought better resolution would have been the call. Those things are working at cross purposes of course. The key variable in VR clarity is pixels-per-degree, which is a function of how many physical pixels are present, what size the screen is, and how close to the eye the screen is. Apple's "retina display" is 60 pixels per degree, chosen because, according to their research, that's the point of diminishing returns. People can perceive the difference between 30ppd and 60ppd, but they can't tell the difference between 60 and 90, for example. The G2 and Pimax 8K display about 20ppd, the same as a 640x480 monitor. Yes, they used to have those. Anybody here old enough to remember the IBM PS/2? Yeah. That's where we are at. To get there, your poor GPU has to drive over 9 million pixels, the equivalent of two 4K monitors. Of course I'd like to have it all. 60ppd and wider FOV. But how do you brute-force that problem? I have some experience building GPU servers (for mining) and feel that could be part of the solution. AMD used to support dual-GPU setups for gaming, and they keep making noise about bringing it back for VR. Easy for me to say, of course; I don't have to write the drivers. Varjo uses fancy optics to fuse two screens -- one tiny and high-res, the other big and low-res. They hit the 60ppd mark in your central vision at least (which is fine), and according to reports is no harder to drive than a G2. They also have the capability of doing foveated rendering, which I guess would be a requirement if you're gonna stretch the FOV. Something tells me they are on the right track. ------------- Optimum? For what? I love the G2 for DCS, but it's about the last HMD I would buy to play Alyx or Lone Echo. For those titles, or even for MSFS, I might settle for a wider FOV at the expense of central vision. But not for DCS, where resolution is king. You use central vision for spotting, or for deciphering those teeny tiny symbols on your MFD's. To me that needs to be the priority. To the point where I don't think I would pay much extra for wider FOV. Gimme the 60 ppd first, then we'll talk. But, that's how I play DCS. There are a lot of different ways to play the game, as evidenced by the shouting matches over on that other forum. "It's a sim not a game!' "Dude, it's a game." Way I look at it, ya never know when you'll be called to fly a real F18. Did you see Independence Day? I dunno about you, but I'm gonna be ready. Kick me some alien butt. I think central vision helps me prepare. YMMV.

Or, when I'm sitting there waiting for them to finish refueling, how I keep trying to rest my elbow on the cockpit sill OP you aren't going to hit 90fps but you should be able to hold at least 45. If you want, you can post up a screen shot of your settings and we can take a look for ya. We'll also need your steam resolution settings and your pixel density.