Zeus67 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Hi folks, I'm dealing with this issue:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178244 So basically they want to set the default functionality when you click the Jammer mode switch to the [] position. I don't want to revisit this issue after I deal with it so here are the three available options: 1. Do nothing (in other words if it was in Standby the jammer remains in Standby, if it was Active it remains Active). 2. Always turn it to Standby. 3. Always turn it to Active. Unless somebody indicates how it works in RL, one of these options will be implemented and no more discussion on the issue will be allowed. Note: This poll will remain open until 2017-01-11 This is how Option 1 works: VEI = jammer goes to standby: V is lit, BR is dark. VEI -> [] = jammer remains in standby: V is lit, BR is dark. You must use HOTAS to change jammer mode. [] -> PCM = jammer goes active: V is lit, BR is lit. PCM -> [] = jammer remains active: V is lit, BR is lit. You must use HOTAS to change jammer mode. Edited January 5, 2017 by Zeus67 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyschool Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 For me, there is no fuc**** difference, so I will go for the first possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 For me the logical function would be of just allowing the HOTAS button to activate deactivate the jammer emission. It would go like this: PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button. VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button. It looks like option 1 correspond but i'm not sure... Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus67 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 For me the logical function would be of just allowing the HOTAS button to activate deactivate the jammer emission. It would go like this: PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button. VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button. It looks like option 1 correspond but i'm not sure... Yes, that is option 1. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Yes, that is option 1. Thanks, then it's option 1 ;) Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S D Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It would go like this: PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button. VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button.This sounds right, so from a cold start, going from VEI -> [] would keep the jammer in standby, ready for the hotas to activate. If thats option one, then yeah that would perfect. Appreciate the response on this and your general view on feeback from us. Thanks a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Option 1 to me seems logical and consistent - the HOTAS basically inherits whatever the operational mode ECM was in prior to going into []. i7-4790K@4.7GHz : EVGA 1070 SC : 16GB Corsair Vengence Pro : 2xEVO 840 SSD : EVGA 850W PSU : CORSAIR H100i Cooler : ASUS Z97-AR MB : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 750D FULL TOWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge55 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Option 1 to me seems logical and consistent - the HOTAS basically inherits whatever the operational mode ECM was in prior to going into []. The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active. Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active. Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set. Why would you leave your hotas active if you are not in [] mode? i7-4790K@4.7GHz : EVGA 1070 SC : 16GB Corsair Vengence Pro : 2xEVO 840 SSD : EVGA 850W PSU : CORSAIR H100i Cooler : ASUS Z97-AR MB : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 750D FULL TOWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 HOTAS selection is not remembered, it just activate or deactivate the emission in [] mode Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_A Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Option 1 is more logical. but 2 is more practical so i`ll go with 2. IAF.Tomer My Rig: Core i7 6700K + Corsair Hydro H100i GTX Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7,G.Skill 32GB DDR4 3000Mhz Gigabyte GTX 980 OC Samsung 840EVO 250GB + 3xCrucial 275GB in RAID 0 (1500 MB/s) Asus MG279Q | TM Warthog + Saitek Combat Pedals + TrackIR 5 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin_Hood Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active. Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set. As I understand it, it is not a 2-position switch, that you can keep in ACTIVE while you shut down the ECM with the control in VEI, instead it is simply a toggle, and doesn't "remember" which state you commanded last, as myHellHumper said. In this case, if you were not emitting before switching in [], then you will not emit until after you choose to toggle it on (with option 1 and 2) Option 1 will need you to deactivate the jammer if you go back to [] from PCM, while option 2 would automatically deactivate (and you can then re-activate it). Personally, if no one can provide a clue as to how it should work IRL, I would say option 1 or 2. I think option 3, however, is both unsafe an illogical. 2nd French Fighter Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 To me it seems that option 2 is the most logical and usefull one - it keeps the pilot in full control of what is happening. From operational point of view: you turn the knob from VEI (not emitting) to [] (still not emitting, if you don't want to) to PCM (emitting) Also according to the latest manual, to me it seems as if the BR and V lights are mixed up: RTM Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit. And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting. (Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off. But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby and thus the logic is inversed?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit. And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting. (Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off. But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby and thus the logic is inversed?) You got it right, it was like this a few patches ago ;) Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) How I understand the way it works in real life: VEI: "Veille" in french / "Standby" - System is off []: "Normal" / - System is active and you can turn jammer on/off with the HOTAS button. PCM: "Priorité Contre-mesure" / "ECM priority" - Jammer active but alterate/jamm your own radar. You can still turn it on/off via HOTAS. Like that: Notice some differences on status lights between this one and the actual one we have. Edited January 5, 2017 by Winterz Update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrayen Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I prefer option #2, but I guess I can live with #1 too. :) Thanks, Zeus. PCM: Jammer is stronger No. and alterate/jamm your own radar. Yes. ++ Az' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 How I understand the way it works in real life: VEI: "Veille" in french / "Standby" - System is off []: "Normal" / - System is active and you can turn jammer on/off with the HOTAS button. PCM: "Priorité Contre-mesure" / "ECM priority" - Jammer is stronger and alterate/jamm your own radar. You can still turn it on/off via HOTAS. Now that is interesting. So that kind of makes sense, retaining the use of the HOTAS button in all the active modes. i7-4790K@4.7GHz : EVGA 1070 SC : 16GB Corsair Vengence Pro : 2xEVO 840 SSD : EVGA 850W PSU : CORSAIR H100i Cooler : ASUS Z97-AR MB : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 750D FULL TOWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrayen Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit. Nope. That's not like this IRL. Both V and BR lights are part of the Jammer system. And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting. Nope. V is about the "listening" part of the jammer (which has to "listen" in order to be able to correctly "emit"=jam). (Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off. Yes. That is what the BR light does. But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby Indeed. I explained why above :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobeshow Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) I may be on the wrong track here, but I think I see several problems. First of all the chart from the manual does not seem to be very helpful, since you cannot differentiate between a VEI setting and the jammer emitting by just looking at the lights. I like UF_Winterz' chart, and I assume that we will have the original chart corrected in the way he showed here. That being said, option 1 of the poll would leave room for confusion since you will have no indication of the jammer's behavior if you had it previously turned on, then turned it off by rotating the knob to VEI (for whatever reason). Unless there will be indications for the mode the jammer will be in when turning back to [], Option 2 sounds best to me. ( I have not voted yet and will wait to see what this discussion leads to ) Edited January 5, 2017 by kobeshow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 You have the V light under the RWR that is lit when the Jammer is in standby Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks Azrayen, corrected my post/chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobeshow Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 You have the V light under the RWR that is lit when the Jammer is in standby That is correct. So lets assume I have the knob switched to [], and the HOTAS command on emit, V+BR are lit. Now I switch the jammer off by rotating to VEI, only V is lit. If I now turn the knob back to [], and we choose option 1 in the poll, the jammer will instantly start emitting, since it remembers my last HOTAS button setting, but I would have no way of knowing that. So I would prefer option 2 unless there is some type of indication for the "remembered" HOTAS setting. Hope this clears it up. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The current implementation in game is wrong, the BR light should be always lit as long as the BR switch is on the M position Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_A Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 So whats my indication that jamming is on? can we get the '*' in the RWR like F-15? IAF.Tomer My Rig: Core i7 6700K + Corsair Hydro H100i GTX Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7,G.Skill 32GB DDR4 3000Mhz Gigabyte GTX 980 OC Samsung 840EVO 250GB + 3xCrucial 275GB in RAID 0 (1500 MB/s) Asus MG279Q | TM Warthog + Saitek Combat Pedals + TrackIR 5 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrayen Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) The current implementation in game is wrong, the BR light should be always lit as long as the BR switch is on the M position Again : no. Sorry. When BR system switch is On, then V light is On. It may sound a bit weird at first (because jammer has two status lights instead of only one for RWR or decoy launcher) but it is correct: BR means brouilleur on the switch = relates to the powering of the jammer system in a whole. When "just" powered, it remains in listening (= V / veille) mode. Veille is in the sense of listening, not stand by, here. BR means brouillage on the light = relates to the activation of the jamming emitter (=actively jamming) So whats my indication that jamming is on? BR light indicates that the jamming is active. It has the exact same purpose as the * of the F-15 (which * doesn't exist on the 2000). Edited January 5, 2017 by Azrayen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts