FC3 F-15C Dogfight Series

[VFA143 Bones]

After a long pause in gaming (due to personal reasons) I am back in the saddle so to speak. I decided that I would start up a new Youtube series where I put arguably the greatest modern fighter jet up against a myriad of opponent from both the East and West in a traditional "Dogfight" aka guns only.

 

The battle conditions will remain the same for each engagement:

Angels 15

Head-On Pass spaced out at about 15 miles apart

Enemy AI set to "Excellent"

 

[VFA143 Bones]

Here is the second video in my new series where I take the F-15 up against a very potentially deadly adversary the MiG-29S. The MiG-29 or "Fulcrum" as it is know to the NATO forces is a fast, agile, and highly maneuverable frontline fighter of Russian origin that was developed in direct response to the American F-15 Eagle in the 1960/1970's.

 

After re-watching the video of this engagement I realize that I need to work on keeping my eye on the bandit. Too many times in this fight I lost sight of him and really had no clue where he was. in the end it could have gone either way as it came down to a head on pass where I got lucky and shot first putting a few rounds in his canopy.

 

It was a fun fight none the less and I think for the next video I may press my luck and go up against two of these guys!

 

 

[VFA143 Bones]

After beating a single MiG29S in my last engagement I decided to take it up a notch and pit myself against two of these nimble fighters. I actually had a good pass on the merge (IMO) and got into a decent position behind one of the Fulcrums. I blew it though as I came up behind him carrying way too much speed and overshot him. I'm sure he was looking up at me through his canopy thinking "WTF Noob!"

 

In the end I do manage to keep from getting myself killed and splash both these guys. I still need to work on my energy management. I have a bad tendency to pull into the vertical without regard to how much speed I have, doing this has put me in some very bad positions that I'm sure any seasoned sim pilot would pounce on in a heartbeat.

 

[VFA143 Bones]

Ok back again with another Dogfight video this time up against the Su-27 "Flanker" I knew from my research going into this fight that this would be my toughest contest yet. The Flanker is a very powerful opponent in a dogfight and can easily out maneuver the F-15. I did well enough after the merge to drop in behind him after a few turns and gun him down.

 

[TAW_Blaze]

Had a look at your last fight against that flanker, can give you a bit of constructive criticisim if you don't mind.

 

1) radar handling, you gave me the impression that you don't understand how it really works and should be handled. You lose him around 14nm for whatever reason then increase the display limit up to 40/80. You don't do anything about your antenna elavation. At that point you need to remember what his last position was, he's closing on you, you have to be looking closer, at around 10nm, basically any piece of information that you will remember helps. Speed, altitude, aspect, you name it.

 

2) because of 1) you missed the merge and you start your lazy turn even delayed after. A good human pilot would have killed you either before the merge or jumped so hard on your six that you can't get him out of there, simply because you missed the merge.

 

3) you lose sight of him for most of the time, which is fine if you know what he's doing, but it felt like you don't. Try to keep sight of him no matter what, you can wait with messing your radar until you're set up for a firing solution, up until then it's more important to look over your shoulder or whereever you have to to keep him in your sight. If he's about to vanish try to zoom in if that doesn't harm your ability to still fly the plane whereever you want to.

 

4) for simplicity, after the merge when you see his paint/lock on the RWR and it suddenly disappears that can be a good indication to check the opposite direction to where he came from, for instance if he painted you from your 12 and suddenly disappears you can quickly look behind your 3/9 line as he's likely trying to jump behind you. Better human opponents don't rely so much on their radar in a BFM brawl so you might not have a paint/lock in the first place, or they might trick you to think that he's behind you while in fact he's not, but for a start what I described above can be helpful especially if you have no idea where he is.

Edited April 29, 2014 by <Blaze>

[VFA143 Bones]

Had a look at your last fight against that flanker, can give you a bit of constructive criticisim if you don't mind.

 

1) radar handling, you gave me the impression that you don't understand how it really works and should be handled. You lose him around 14nm for whatever reason then increase the display limit up to 40/80. You don't do anything about your antenna elavation. At that point you need to remember what his last position was, he's closing on you, you have to be looking closer, at around 10nm, basically any piece of information that you will remember helps. Speed, altitude, aspect, you name it.

 

2) because of 1) you missed the merge and you start your lazy turn even delayed after. A good human pilot would have killed you either before the merge or jumped so hard on your six that you can't get him out of there, simply because you missed the merge.

 

3) you lose sight of him for most of the time, which is fine if you know what he's doing, but it felt like you don't. Try to keep sight of him no matter what, you can wait with messing your radar until you're set up for a firing solution, up until then it's more important to look over your shoulder or whereever you have to to keep him in your sight. If he's about to vanish try to zoom in if that doesn't harm your ability to still fly the plane whereever you want to.

 

4) for simplicity, after the merge when you see his paint/lock on the RWR and it suddenly disappears that can be a good indication to check the opposite direction to where he came from, for instance if he painted you from your 12 and suddenly disappears you can quickly look behind your 3/9 line as he's likely trying to jump behind you. Better human opponents don't rely so much on their radar in a BFM brawl so you might not have a paint/lock in the first place, or they might trick you to think that he's behind you while in fact he's not, but for a start what I described above can be helpful especially if you have no idea where he is.

 

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

As for the radar stuff, I do have the very bad habit of messing about with it while trying to figure out where the enemy is. I really need to setup my HOTAS for correct radar keys like you mentioned (Elevation etc) as I think that it will cut down on my workload substantially and maybe then I could keep my eye on the bandit.

 

As for tracking the target I am having a hard time keeping an eye on him. Even if I know where he is I am finding that I still cannot see him until the last minute. I do have the graphics all maxed and I am playing on a 22 inch monitor at 1080p but half the time aircraft still show up as just a tiny dot. Maybe my eyes are just getting old!

 

I also have a bad habit of feeling like I constantly need to fly through the HUD. I always feel as though I am about to plow right into the dirt when I get into a turning fight.

 

Also what would be a good tactic going into a head on merge? I have been trying to carry a lot of speed into the merge as I know it will bleed off quickly once the turning fight starts.

 

Anyway I am all for criticism because I know that anything that I can learn from those that are far more experienced then myself will only make me better.

[GGTharos]

As for tracking the target I am having a hard time keeping an eye on him. Even if I know where he is I am finding that I still cannot see him until the last minute. I do have the graphics all maxed and I am playing on a 22 inch monitor at 1080p but half the time aircraft still show up as just a tiny dot. Maybe my eyes are just getting old!

 

No, it's just hard in this game. You can try using zoom, but also what helps is knowing what radar/rwr position corresponds to what visual position, ie. where to look for him given those cues. The radar will help as well, since you can put the TD box in the HUD and start your visual acquisition in that way.

 

I also have a bad habit of feeling like I constantly need to fly through the HUD. I always feel as though I am about to plow right into the dirt when I get into a turning fight.

 

HuD flying is a very typical sim pilot affliction :D

It is both a horrible habit and a difficult to lose habit.

 

Also what would be a good tactic going into a head on merge? I have been trying to carry a lot of speed into the merge as I know it will bleed off quickly once the turning fight starts.

 

That depends. You're also flying below corner speed at most of the time ... read Robert Shaw's book, there's no single answer.

 

As far as the AI goes, those MiG-23's ... you should be on the their six and saddled up, NOT overshooting, and shooting them down within 45sec from the merge consistently. That's /a/ benchmark.

[TAW_Blaze]

You'll definitely need those keys bound especially for normal radar modes such as RWS/TWS, in a close fight you generally just switch into an AAQ like the vertical scan or boresight.

 

As for losing sight of him, I'd call that lack of experience. For now, try to get your eyes on him even before the merge happens and keep your sight on him. Can't really give pointers of where to look or how but the more you learn about BFM and the more you practice the easier it'll be. Spotting is not the best though as GG says, there are some bs scenarios where you'll lose him 9/10.

 

Don't worry about your HUD, you have bitchin' betty to warn you if you're stalling or about to slam the ground, now and then you can check your speed/altitude or the terrain but other than that there's absolutely no need to look at it.

 

Before the merge try to stay around M0.9, you can find your mach on the HUD. If you go slower, you won't turn as good, if you go faster, you'll G out harder and your turn radius will also increase by a lot. If you're starting to black out let go of the stick a bit until it's fine and then continue pulling, albeit right now the superman in the seat (our pilot) can sustain 8G turn for eternity so you won't be bothered by this, until it's fixed anyway. Avoid using aibrakes, there are a bunch of complex situations where you absolutely need them but a basic turnfight is usually not one of them. If you're too fast before the merge or at any other point turning you can brake back down to around M0.9 but no more than that. If you're getting behind him but you're too fast you want to use your throttle and/or the brake to stay behind him. Shooting him down is always better than sitting behind him though.

Edited April 29, 2014 by <Blaze>

[VFA143 Bones]

Thanks again guys! :thumbup:

 

I already have another video ready to go that I recorded last night but in the next one after that I will "Try" to employ your suggestions as to how to break my bad habits.

[VFA143 Bones]

Here is my next installment of my Dogfight series! This time I decided to up the ante and go up against 2 x MiG-29S and a single Su-27. I figured that I would try and target the Su-27 first as he is the deadlier opponent and worry about the pair of 29s afterward. Not sure if this was the smartest thing to do but it worked out in the end.

 

Thanks again guys for the critiques! I will employ them in the next video.

 

[arkroyale048]

HUD flying... while not really a serious problem for me... Is a minor irritating one...

 

On the merge I have this sudden urge to glance at the HUD to ensure that I am not turning myself into a stall. I've gotten into this habit of checking my flight parameters, AoA, airspeed, altitude. Like any pilot should !

 

Unfortunately it hinders keeping eyeballs on target ! lol :P

 

I've yet to REALLY fly the aircraft by feel (knowing when one is about to stall and such) without looking at any indicator. Of course the lack of real G-forces contribute to that.

 

Still; I can say you're doing fine.

[kk0425]

Keep it up. You'll be able to take on 4 expert Su-27s in no time. Just watch out for their trap. They like to lure you into a vertical fight and if you don't have the energy to keep up you'll be toast.

[lunaticfringe]

I've yet to REALLY fly the aircraft by feel (knowing when one is about to stall and such) without looking at any indicator. Of course the lack of real G-forces contribute to that.

 

Turn up the audio and listen to the wind. If you're below corner (thus meaning the OWS can't help you with tones), the sound of the airframe is more than sufficient, even now without the howling that's sure to come in the future.

[lunaticfringe]

Here is my next installment of my Dogfight series! This time I decided to up the ante and go up against 2 x MiG-29S and a single Su-27. I figured that I would try and target the Su-27 first as he is the deadlier opponent and worry about the pair of 29s afterward. Not sure if this was the smartest thing to do but it worked out in the end

 

1. Get out of STT. Bug once, and bug everyone in TWS.

2. Stop moving the radar around. In TWS, watch the altitudes they are at, and set elevation accordingly. Only transition side to side if you're taking offset.

3. Take offset. Put all three opponents to one side of you. Do everything you can to keep this the case. This helps solve your pre-merge visual search issue.

4. Take reasonable offset- don't give more room than you need to turn against the laterally closest opponent.

5. Select that lateral opponent as your first TWS bug, put him in your HUD to use the TD box as a visual aid, and find him with the Mk 1 eyeball. What you know about the formation from the radar tells you where to look for his partners.

 

You turned into the Flanker, allowing the Fulcrums to gain all sorts of position on you, and putting them under your wing line, making you blind to them at the merge. He was essentially dragging you, and it is only by the ignorance of the AI (I'd love to see the ACMI on this to see what they were thinking) that you didn't get nailed by the 3:00 mark.

 

You need to see everyone's first move at the merge; this determines what you do after your first 90 degrees of turn. This does mean that you may lose angles in a lead/trail situation such as this, but you can respond to it in due course. You can't respond to an onspotted someone putting rounds through the cockpit floor.

[VFA143 Bones]

1. Get out of STT. Bug once, and bug everyone in TWS.

2. Stop moving the radar around. In TWS, watch the altitudes they are at, and set elevation accordingly. Only transition side to side if you're taking offset.

3. Take offset. Put all three opponents to one side of you. Do everything you can to keep this the case. This helps solve your pre-merge visual search issue.

4. Take reasonable offset- don't give more room than you need to turn against the laterally closest opponent.

5. Select that lateral opponent as your first TWS bug, put him in your HUD to use the TD box as a visual aid, and find him with the Mk 1 eyeball. What you know about the formation from the radar tells you where to look for his partners.

 

You turned into the Flanker, allowing the Fulcrums to gain all sorts of position on you, and putting them under your wing line, making you blind to them at the merge. He was essentially dragging you, and it is only by the ignorance of the AI (I'd love to see the ACMI on this to see what they were thinking) that you didn't get nailed by the 3:00 mark.

 

You need to see everyone's first move at the merge; this determines what you do after your first 90 degrees of turn. This does mean that you may lose angles in a lead/trail situation such as this, but you can respond to it in due course. You can't respond to an onspotted someone putting rounds through the cockpit floor.

 

Great tips! Funny you ask for the ACMI file because I actually recorded this one using TACVIEW.

 

ACMI F15 vs 2 x MiG29 1 x Su27

[HiJack]

The Tacview file gives an error when loading Can you pack it to a .zip file and upload again?

[VFA143 Bones]

The Tacview file gives an error when loading Can you pack it to a .zip file and upload again?

 

 

Sure! I am using the latest version of Tacview 1.24 64 bit, not sure if that makes a difference. I can watch the file just fine.

 

Tacview File

[HiJack]

Thanks, that worked ;)

[VFA143 Bones]

Thanks, that worked ;)

 

 

NP:thumbup:

[HiJack]

Good fight :thumbup:

[VFA143 Bones]

Good fight :thumbup:

 

It was OK and I was lucky. After watching the ACMI file I noticed that the 2 Migs did not engage until I pressed the issue on them. Found that quite odd as they could have easily dropped in behind me after I chased after the Su27. Anyone have a reasoning for this weird AI behavior?

[HiJack]

What orders did they have (What did you set in ME)?

[VFA143 Bones]

What orders did they have (What did you set in ME)?

 

They are set to "Excellent" and they were on a "Fighter Sweep" same as the SU-27 and he did engage.

[HiJack]

Ok I think your next challenge just arrived. Set them all to "Search and attack" and select your aircraft. Go get them :D

[VFA143 Bones]

Ok I think your next challenge just arrived. Set them all to "Search and attack" and select your aircraft. Go get them :D

 

I think I'll try that tonight! :thumbup: