Rudder Control: Twist Stick vs Pedals

[Visceral Raptor]

So I'm debating here whether or not to get a joystick with or without a twistable stick for Z-axis rudder/yaw control.

 

If I get a joystick that doesn't have a twist axis that allows for yaw control, then I'll probably have to use rudder pedals for yawing.

 

Could you guys do a compare/contrast of twist stick vs rudder pedals?

 

I would greatly appreciate it!

 

:):thumbup::helpsmilie::smilewink::pilotfly::D

[metalnwood]

Twist stick doesn't have a lot of fine control. Yaw can get mixed in accidentally with pitch and roll adjustments.

 

Anything that requires a lot of stick and rudder control will be harder to deal with when using a twist stick. Some aircraft it's not so important, e.g. the a10 doesn't normally need rudder except takeoff and landing.

 

Rudder can be good for quick corrections for guns on some aircraft. Not so easy to do this with a twist stick, much easier with pedals.

 

I could probably keep going but in essence, pedals give you the control required to properly use the rudder where a twist grip is only really useful when rudder control is absolutely necessary, e.g. nose wheel control or yaw in helos cause you need to turn those helps around.

 

In battlefield for example I could live with a twist grip in help's but for flight sims it is so much more natural and easy with pedals.

[Visceral Raptor]

Twist stick doesn't have a lot of fine control. Yaw can get mixed in accidentally with pitch and roll adjustments.

 

Anything that requires a lot of stick and rudder control will be harder to deal with when using a twist stick. Some aircraft it's not so important, e.g. the a10 doesn't normally need rudder except takeoff and landing.

 

Rudder can be good for quick corrections for guns on some aircraft. Not so easy to do this with a twist stick, much easier with pedals.

 

I could probably keep going but in essence, pedals give you the control required to properly use the rudder where a twist grip is only really useful when rudder control is absolutely necessary, e.g. nose wheel control or yaw in helos cause you need to turn those helps around.

 

In battlefield for example I could live with a twist grip in help's but for flight sims it is so much more natural and easy with pedals.

 

It sounds like rudder pedals are pretty much 100% superior, other than pricing?

[metalnwood]

Yes, there is no benefit to a twist stick unless you have a space requirement.

 

They cost more but may save you money in the long run when you end up getting pedals and upgrade your stick from a twist grip :)

[Hempstead]

Twist stick doesn't have a lot of fine control. Yaw can get mixed in accidentally with pitch and roll adjustments.

 

Anything that requires a lot of stick and rudder control will be harder to deal with when using a twist stick. Some aircraft it's not so important, e.g. the a10 doesn't normally need rudder except takeoff and landing.

 

Rudder can be good for quick corrections for guns on some aircraft. Not so easy to do this with a twist stick, much easier with pedals.

 

I could probably keep going but in essence, pedals give you the control required to properly use the rudder where a twist grip is only really useful when rudder control is absolutely necessary, e.g. nose wheel control or yaw in helos cause you need to turn those helps around.

 

In battlefield for example I could live with a twist grip in help's but for flight sims it is so much more natural and easy with pedals.

 

There are reasons why most of the modern aviation controls have "standardized" yaw control with foot pedals. Didn't used to be at the dawn of aviation. The Wright brothers used their hips for yaw. The main reason I think is human physiology. Like MetalWood said, twist action of your wrist is just not as precise as your foot work. And more importantly, it's almost impossible to move in the pitch and roll without affecting yaw if you have a twist stick. That is not exactly a desirable trait when you are trying to fine tune your aim at a target. It's particularly bad when you fly a chopper and trying to aim some rocket pods at ground targets.

 

Also, when under stress (say bandit at six with radar lock on you), humans tend to use actions that are more natural to their physiology. With a twist stick, you tend to turn left more (for right handers) than right, because it's a lot harder to twist your wrist right than left (try it if you don't believe me, and then center mount the twist stick and try it again). I tested this theory when I was teaching a buddy to dog fight; it worked like a charm -- he "always" turned left when I got the radar lock on him (he's right hander with a twist stick!); and I would be waiting there for the kill. Then only tell him when he got frustrated. Now, he would never forget that lesson -- don't use a twist stick! ;-)

 

I am not saying twist stick is such a big handicap. There are people who are very good with twist sticks. But in the air I will exploit any weakness. If you hand it to me, I will certainly take it! And, thank you very much for being so nice in a dog fight!

[Cyb0rg]

So I'm debating here whether or not to get a joystick with or without a twistable stick for Z-axis rudder/yaw control.

 

If I get a joystick that doesn't have a twist axis that allows for yaw control, then I'll probably have to use rudder pedals for yawing.

 

Could you guys do a compare/contrast of twist stick vs rudder pedals?

 

I would greatly appreciate it!

 

:):thumbup::helpsmilie::smilewink::pilotfly::D

 

From my experience, if I hadn't bought a warthog I would never had the rudder pedals I have now.

 

Just like you, before the warthog I had a Logitech Extreme 3D (still functional) and a X-52 both of them with a twist stick, and I've mastered the BS (1st version) without any pedals. I was so comfortable with the twist function that I almost bought the X-65 instead of the warthog just to avoid acquiring the pedals.

 

IMO, to fly the Hog or any of FC planes, you don't really need any rudder pedals, the twist axis will do just fine. :joystick:

Edited September 15, 2014 by Cyb0rg

[Kayos]

The twist is second nature to me with my X65F. You get used to it fast and it becomes natural.

I'd get pedals if I had more room though.

[Flying Penguin]

As a twist stick (X52 Pro) owner, I can categorically state that given infinite cash and infinite space, I'd go for pedals in a heartbeat. As it is, space precludes me from having pedals, but quite honestly it's not THAT much of a disadvantage, at least in fixed wing. It's quite manageable and I've never felt that it really held me back, at least no more than any other of our usual sim abstractions.

[Raven Morpheus]

I'm finding, with an X52 Pro, that the Saitek Pro Flight pedals I bought are so far rather redundant (so much so that I've considered selling them) - A) because they just seem too big overall for how I sit (I think that would be the case with any rudder pedals though, I'd be better off using racing sim pedals if they worked in a similar fashion) and B) because I seem to get on fine so far with using the twist rudder.

 

Given that I also have a space requirement - i.e. it has to be small enough that I can sit sideways on my 3ft wide pine bed on the wooden sit/ride on rig I built and comfortably use it, I feel I wasted money on the Saitek Pro Flight rudder pedals.

 

I also think I wasted money on the X52 Pro (apart from the lack of "stiction" I'm sure it's not quite as good as my X45 was)} - I think I should have saved another £30 or so and got an X55 Rhino but they were out of stock when I needed to replace my X45 a few months ago and seeing as I've removed the throttle detent and added extra magnets to the sticks hall sensors I doubt they'd allow me to send my X52 Pro back and swap it for a X55 Rhino and pay the little extra, even if I undid those mods...

 

 

Rudder pedals are a perfectly fine idea if you sit in the conventional way, on a chair/seat in front of a desk/table (or even like some probably do on the sofa in front of a big screen TV), or if you have the room (and $) and wish to build yourself a proper cockpit.

 

Anything else and I'd say go with a twist rudder or similar.

 

I really wish though that Saitek had kept the rudder rocker on the throttle of their HOTAS (the X52 style ones at least) like they had on the X45 - that to me was perfect!

Edited September 15, 2014 by Raven Morpheus

[WildBillKelsoe]

I had a t-flight hotas X with the twist and then got CH stuff. It helps and really increases immersion if you have rudder pedals standalone.

[tommytank]

I have a twist stick (X52pro), but quickly bought pedals.

 

Atleast a twist stick allows you to buy pedals later, but I would say the pedals are more important, especially if you're flying heli's, whereas fixed wing, rudder control isn't so important except during takeoff/taxiing.

 

With a twist stick, there's always interaction between the twist/yaw and roll & pitch so you can never really fly smoothly. Probably OK for arcade-style games, but not DCS-type sims!

[Visceral Raptor]

For those who don't know, I have a discussion about good rudder pedals to compliment the Warthog stick right here

[Buckeye]

It sounds like rudder pedals are pretty much 100% superior, other than pricing?

 

Correct :thumbup:

[KLR Rico]

One distinct advantage to pedals is the toe brakes, which are vital in the P-51 and dora.