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Recommend a Great Joystick for DCS?


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The modules I have right now are:

 

  • A-10C Warthog
  • P-51D Mustang
  • Flaming Cliffs 3

 

I would like to get the F-86 Sabre module in the future.

 

I currently have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. It's good for simple/arcadey flight/space combat games like Ace Combat,Hawx, and SSZ, but it doesn't seem so very good for this game.

 

Anyways, I was looking for a joystick that fills these requirements:

 

  • No potentiometer sensors for pitch and roll axis
  • Inclusion of a yaw/rudder twist axis on the stick, also known as the Z axis - see edit below
  • Preferably no potentiometers on the yaw/rudder Z (stick twist) axis - see edit below
  • Hall Effect magnetic sensors are a good alternative to potentiometer sensors
  • Preferably no potentiometers for the throttle
  • HOTAS joystick arrangement
  • Minimal deadzone or no deadzone at all or deadzone adjustment software included
  • Upon release of stick, it pretty much returns to the exact same position
  • Comfortable grip. I had to sand down some sharp edges on my joystick.
  • Easy access to useful buttons
  • At least one 8-way hat switch on top of flight stick (for quick 3rd person view changes)
  • Long lasting durability
  • Base of flight stick is very heavy and is hard to move around, stays in one place
  • Highly accurate pitch/roll/yaw sensors. I heard the Thrustmaster T-16000M has very good accuracy.
  • There is little "play" when the stick is in the resting position - by this I mean if you push the stick (when it is in the resting upright position) with very little effort and it doesn't move around. If you continue to apply a very small amount of force to the stick in the same direction and then all of a sudden you hit a "wall" - to continue moving the stick in the same direction you would need a much much greater increase in force. The more you can push the stick around with very very little force before you hit "the wall" the more there is "play" to the joystick. One way to test this is if you hold just the base of the flight stick and you tilt it and the flight stick moves with respect to the base (when I want it NOT to move with respect to the base).

 

I'm thinking about the Saitek X-52 or the X-52 Pro. Not sure if the Pro version is worth the extra $$$. What are your guys' recommendation?

 

EDIT:

 

On second thought, I'm not sure whether or not I want a twist axis for my joystick. Twist axis is no longer a requirement for me.


Edited by Visceral Raptor
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Base of flight stick is very heavy and is hard to move around, stays in one place

The only one that is going to meet that requirement, in my mind, is a Warthog but it has no twist rudder.

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Currently have the PRO version and definitely recommend it if you don't want to spend the cash for the Warthog or a Komodo Sims rig... I prefer choppers and if you intend to use the X-52 for helicopters, I highly recommend performing the center detent removal procedure found elsewhere on this forum.. Makes control of choppers infinitely better..

Also, the centering spring on the stick is too stiff for the kind of precision control required for choppers so I also recommend installing a zip tie on the spring so that you have some free movement near the center for fine movements / control... And finally, remove the afterburner detent on the throttle for the same reason as the zip tie on the stick.. If you leave the throttle detent installed (when using the throttle as a collective) you will fight the controls IMMENSELY when trying to land as the damned detent gets in the way at PRECISELY the moment you need fine control)

 

I seriously got pissed at that thing for quite some time until I found the fix for it... (also elsewhere on this site..)

You mention the base weight and I recommend firmly mounting all three parts, stick, collective and rudder pedals. Makes a huge difference in control and feel..


Edited by outlawal2

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I think that twist rudder is not compatible with a number of of things on the list so I would just go with what you are happy with in the price range you are going for. You didn't mention what that was but I assume it is below the warthog having mentioned the x-55?

 

What is it incompatible with? I'm guessing it affects things like deadzone and the amount of "play" (I described what I meant by "play" in the OP) the joystick has?

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Currently have the PRO version and definitely recommend it if you don't want to spend the cash for the Warthog or a Komodo Sims rig... I prefer choppers and if you intend to use the X-52 for helicopters, I highly recommend performing the center detent removal procedure found elsewhere on this forum.. Makes control of choppers infinitely better..

Also, the centering spring on the stick is too stiff for the kind of precision control required for choppers so I also recommend installing a zip tie on the spring so that you have some free movement near the center for fine movements / control... And finally, remove the afterburner detent on the throttle for the same reason as the zip tie on the stick.. If you leave the throttle detent installed (when using the throttle as a collective) you will fight the controls IMMENSELY when trying to land as the damned detent gets in the way at PRECISELY the moment you need fine control)

 

I seriously got pissed at that thing for quite some time until I found the fix for it... (also elsewhere on this site..)

You mention the base weight and I recommend firmly mounting all three parts, stick, collective and rudder pedals. Makes a huge difference in control and feel..

 

Not exactly what you mean by those detents. How exactly do these detents affect the stick/afterburner? My guess for the afterburner detent is that it locks the throttle in place when your throttle is really high (afterburner mode)?

 

Well I'm probably not going to fly helicopters for a while. Still need to learn DCS. But I'll try out helicopters in Take On Helicopters!

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Hi Visceral, usually sticks with a rudder are not the beefy ones, e.g. heavy base or dare I say built to last an extremely long time.

 

The ones with hall sensors certainly have less to go wrong with them. The detent is the fixed center postion, sometimes it can give you the opposite of having play and in older X series sticks, possibly current ones it can lead to sticktion where you need to push too hard to get it to move from center loosing some amount of fine control around the center point.

 

Even the warthog suffers from this but an extension to the shaft alleviates it.

 

As outlaw mentions, you should mount, i.e. bolt down everything to make sure it wont move about. This will help out on the x52 a lot.

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Hi Visceral, usually sticks with a rudder are not the beefy ones, e.g. heavy base or dare I say built to last an extremely long time.

 

The ones with hall sensors certainly have less to go wrong with them. The detent is the fixed center postion, sometimes it can give you the opposite of having play and in older X series sticks, possibly current ones it can lead to sticktion where you need to push too hard to get it to move from center loosing some amount of fine control around the center point.

 

Even the warthog suffers from this but an extension to the shaft alleviates it.

 

As outlaw mentions, you should mount, i.e. bolt down everything to make sure it wont move about. This will help out on the x52 a lot.

 

Well I hope to get one a durable stick with twist axis for rudder/yaw then. Now I'm thinking about getting rudder pedals, but that seems to belong to another post (click here for that other post)


Edited by Visceral Raptor
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If your budget is enough for the X-52 Pro, then I'd say go for the Saitek x-55 Rhino :) It'll be a great stick for everything. (of course assuming you can't afford a TM Warthog HOTAS - or something from Max Flight Sim)

 

Well I don't have any budget limit, as long as something meets all the requirements I listed, I will be super happy.

 

:pilotfly::joystick::thumbup::megalol::lol:

 

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

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Well I hope to get one a durable stick with twist axis for rudder/yaw then. Now I'm thinking about getting rudder pedals, but that seems to belong to another post (click here for that other post

 

The warthog was pretty much ruled out because of the lack of twist rudder. Now, if you are going to get a set of rudder pedals I am not sure why you would not want to seriously consider it.

 

I have tried quite a few sticks, not the x-55 or the x-65, I have tried the x-52, CH sticks and throttles, logitech g940 and the warthog. Honestly, I can't see anyone with no budget issues trying all of these side by side and not thinking the warthog stands out.

 

With any stick, who knows if you receive one that runs for ten years or dies after only a couple if we are to be honest about it.

 

 

EDIT. Just saw your edit, we were typing at the same time :)

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Go for rudders and enjoy choppers dude!

Once that's sorted the Hawg is a good place to start,

It's got its shortcomings but its got a lot more bonuses!

 

If you find better I would also be interested!

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Thrusmaster T16000

 

Hall's sensors but not on the twist.

 

ever since I started using it two years ago it has been performing flawlessly. No jittering - never.

 

I'm only using the throttle in the Huey as throttle (so basicly I leave it untouched) or for wheel brakes in planes. So can't comment on that. I have been using the twist handle for a year and never had problems. Now I've got rudder pedals.

 

It is perfect for helicopter control (and AAR :D) due to the long throw and slightly weak spring. This makes for very accurate control around the center (small adjustments). In regards to your last point, this somewhat weak spring fits just that requirement. It moves away from center in a fluid motion.

 

Funny thing is that I came from a 3D Pro. Never want to go back. If this one breaks, I will buy another one.

 

[*]No potentiometer sensors for pitch and roll axis - check

[*]Inclusion of a yaw/rudder twist axis on the stick, also known as the Z axis - see edit below - check

[*]Preferably no potentiometers on the yaw/rudder Z (stick twist) axis - see edit below - nope

[*]Hall Effect magnetic sensors are a good alternative to potentiometer sensors - Indeed

[*]Preferably no potentiometers for the throttle - nope

[*]HOTAS joystick arrangement - Not really

[*]Minimal deadzone or no deadzone at all or deadzone adjustment software included - check

[*]Upon release of stick, it pretty much returns to the exact same position - check

[*]Comfortable grip. I had to sand down some sharp edges on my joystick. - matter of taste. I like the feel

[*]Easy access to useful buttons - to some degree. there are not too many buttons on the stick itself

[*]At least one 8-way hat switch on top of flight stick (for quick 3rd person view changes) - check

[*]Long lasting durability - check

[*]Base of flight stick is very heavy and is hard to move around, stays in one place - moves around a bit. Better surface may solve problem

[*]Highly accurate pitch/roll/yaw sensors. I heard the Thrustmaster T-16000M has very good accuracy. - very accurate indeed

[*]There is little "play" when the stick is in the resting position - by this I mean if you push the stick (when it is in the resting upright position) with very little effort and it doesn't move around. If you continue to apply a very small amount of force to the stick in the same direction and then all of a sudden you hit a "wall" - to continue moving the stick in the same direction you would need a much much greater increase in force. The more you can push the stick around with very very little force before you hit "the wall" the more there is "play" to the joystick. One way to test this is if you hold just the base of the flight stick and you tilt it and the flight stick moves with respect to the base (when I want it NOT to move with respect to the base). - T16000 perfectly fits this requirement


Edited by TurboHog

'Frett'

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The warthog was pretty much ruled out because of the lack of twist rudder. Now, if you are going to get a set of rudder pedals I am not sure why you would not want to seriously consider it.

 

I have tried quite a few sticks, not the x-55 or the x-65, I have tried the x-52, CH sticks and throttles, logitech g940 and the warthog. Honestly, I can't see anyone with no budget issues trying all of these side by side and not thinking the warthog stands out.

 

With any stick, who knows if you receive one that runs for ten years or dies after only a couple if we are to be honest about it.

 

 

EDIT. Just saw your edit, we were typing at the same time :)

 

I would get the Warthog but I heard it has potentiometers for its pitch/roll stick axis...

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Well I don't have any budget limit...
So, buy two X-55s. Keep one, send me other. :helpsmilie: :joystick: :D

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Go for rudders and enjoy choppers dude!

Once that's sorted the Hawg is a good place to start,

It's got its shortcomings but its got a lot more bonuses!

 

If you find better I would also be interested!

 

When you say rudders do you mean rudder pedals?

 

Nope, the old cougar stick did but the new warthog stick as is precise (more so) than any other stick I have used. It def has hall sensors.

 

It looks like the HOTAS Warthog here has Hall sensors. How does the stick accuracy compare to the T-16000M?

 

Thrusmaster T16000

 

Hall's sensors but not on the twist.

 

ever since I started using it two years ago it has been performing flawlessly. No jittering - never.

 

I'm only using the throttle in the Huey as throttle (so basicly I leave it untouched) or for wheel brakes in planes. So can't comment on that. I have been using the twist handle for a year and never had problems. Now I've got rudder pedals.

 

It is perfect for helicopter control (and AAR :D) due to the long throw and slightly weak spring. This makes for very accurate control around the center (small adjustments). In regards to your last point, this somewhat weak spring fits just that requirement. It moves away from center in a fluid motion.

 

Funny thing is that I came from a 3D Pro. Never want to go back. If this one breaks, I will buy another one.

 

[*]No potentiometer sensors for pitch and roll axis - check

[*]Inclusion of a yaw/rudder twist axis on the stick, also known as the Z axis - see edit below - check

[*]Preferably no potentiometers on the yaw/rudder Z (stick twist) axis - see edit below - nope

[*]Hall Effect magnetic sensors are a good alternative to potentiometer sensors - Indeed

[*]Preferably no potentiometers for the throttle - nope

[*]HOTAS joystick arrangement - Not really

[*]Minimal deadzone or no deadzone at all or deadzone adjustment software included - check

[*]Upon release of stick, it pretty much returns to the exact same position - check

[*]Comfortable grip. I had to sand down some sharp edges on my joystick. - matter of taste. I like the feel

[*]Easy access to useful buttons - to some degree. there are not too many buttons on the stick itself

[*]At least one 8-way hat switch on top of flight stick (for quick 3rd person view changes) - check

[*]Long lasting durability - check

[*]Base of flight stick is very heavy and is hard to move around, stays in one place - moves around a bit. Better surface may solve problem

[*]Highly accurate pitch/roll/yaw sensors. I heard the Thrustmaster T-16000M has very good accuracy. - very accurate indeed

[*]There is little "play" when the stick is in the resting position - by this I mean if you push the stick (when it is in the resting upright position) with very little effort and it doesn't move around. If you continue to apply a very small amount of force to the stick in the same direction and then all of a sudden you hit a "wall" - to continue moving the stick in the same direction you would need a much much greater increase in force. The more you can push the stick around with very very little force before you hit "the wall" the more there is "play" to the joystick. One way to test this is if you hold just the base of the flight stick and you tilt it and the flight stick moves with respect to the base (when I want it NOT to move with respect to the base). - T16000 perfectly fits this requirement

 

Maybe I'll get both the Warthog and the T-16000M, I'll probably use the T-16000M for less-realistic/arcadey space combat/flight games like Strike Suit Zero, Ace Combat, Hawx, Battlefield, etc.


Edited by Visceral Raptor
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Both a Warthog and a T.16000M for ya? Well, why didn't you tell us you were made of money! :D

 

FYI the Warthog and T.16000M both use the same gimbal system (ball in a cup kind of thing, essentially), except the Warthog has a much stronger centering spring. If you get the Warthog you won't need to bother with the T.16000M unless you're one of those Star Citizen die-hards that want to use dual sticks.

 

Also rudder pedals are much better than any sort of twist if you can afford them in addition.

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Both a Warthog and a T.16000M for ya? Well, why didn't you tell us you were made of money! :D

 

FYI the Warthog and T.16000M both use the same gimbal system (ball in a cup kind of thing, essentially), except the Warthog has a much stronger centering spring. If you get the Warthog you won't need to bother with the T.16000M unless you're one of those Star Citizen die-hards that want to use dual sticks.

 

Also rudder pedals are much better than any sort of twist if you can afford them in addition.

 

Well if the Thrustmaster T-16000M has no benefits over the Warthog, then of course I wouldn't buy it. I no longer consider twist stick a benefit, and I don't like the wimpy throttle flap on the T-16000M either.

 

Thanks for saving me the money!

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GET A WARTHOG!!!!! PERIOD...There is no better stick and throttle out there for DCS as far as I'm concerned. I've use many others and none of them holds a candle to the TM Warthog. I would also say that the LAST thing you want is a twist rudder. Get a set of pedals on the floor with toe brakes. You will not regret it.

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