F-15 Radar bugs?

[Kenan]

The unclassified manual, and pilot testimonies. You'll have to find those for yourself though, I -really- do not have time to do it right now. Maybe in the future.

 

(Note: Most pilot testimonies I've seen relate tot he MiG-29, but the systems are pretty similar ... the Su-27 however, AFAIK, has a better radar processor, which is why it suffers less)

 

So basically, all your claims of SU27 radar weaknesses are based on Mig29 pilots testimonies (I presume of basic A model)?

I mean, I noticed you were bringing this up lots of times, especially regarding the SU27.

 

I don't think you can compare 29A with 27S, as those two are pretty much different, not only radar range but the ECM capabilities, weapons suite etc.

[Pilotasso]

Actualy they share many of the same weaknesses. 1 is the inability of multi engagement. Only the most recent versions can, but russia has exported all of those upgrades, they are in low numbers and not modeled ingame.

 

The mainstream of russian radars are pretty much primitive compared to others.

[capttrob]

Well, im thoroughly convinced the 120's suck...lol

 

I just got done playing a couple of rounds on 169. One time i had the enemy locked with a friendly on the other side of him. I launch, and sure enough it misses the enemy and kills the friendly.

 

I've launched 2,3,4 120's well inside Rtr on the VSD (isnt inside Rtr called the No Escape Zone?), steering dot centered... 20% kill ratio if im lucky. The only thing 120's seem to be good for is to get the target on the defensive so you can launch an Aim7.

 

Another thing happened today that i never seen before.

I have the target locked (with 120's or 7's, doesnt matter), the target comes within Rtr, the ASE circle opens wide, i steer the dot to center, my heart starts pumpin, my thumb covering the launch button, ready for the red lights and star for launch.. but nothing... no star... no red lights... nothin... so here i am dodging every heater and slammer thrown at me and we merge, pressing my launch button like crazy (i even tried hitting enter on the keyboard..thinking it might be my stick.. still nothing)... nothing comes off the rails.. .no launch indication, no star. no lights.... what gives? It only happened twice out of the 10 or so kills i got today.... (1 of them being the friendly where my 120 flew over the locked enemy to get the friendly...lol.. .again my apologies to whoever that was)

 

As far as the first radar bugs i noticed. I really couldnt tell today cause i stayed low and nothing dropped off radar unless i went behind a mountain.

 

I guess im getting better at the game though. I managed to dodge 11 missles coming from two seperate MiG29S' in formation before the 12th got me...lol

 

Im also hearing that the Mig29S is for noobs or pilots that want the easy kill? Is this true? I hear its kinda like using the shot gun or sniper rifle in CoD2. Perhaps i should be flying that thing...lol

Why isnt the MiG29S available for single player mode? I seen the A model.. .whats the difference?

 

edited for typos... and a Great big thank you to the 169th for the use of their server... S!

[GGTharos]

So basically, all your claims of SU27 radar weaknesses are based on Mig29 pilots testimonies (I presume of basic A model)?

I mean, I noticed you were bringing this up lots of times, especially regarding the SU27.

 

I don't think you can compare 29A with 27S, as those two are pretty much different, not only radar range but the ECM capabilities, weapons suite etc.

 

 

Yes, you can. 80% radar parts commonality ... ring a bell?

That line of radars has always been claimed to have an inferior processor, with the MiG-29A's more so.

 

Just because -you- think it shouldn't be compared, doesn't make it so. Reality is such that evidence points more in favor of the 27 having an inferior radar to the 15, than otherwise.

 

As for the jammers ... about the only thing I can think of that might be different is the Sorbitsya's ground-bounce capability when flying low, and the potential ability to handle more threats. SPJ's are just SPJs, that's it.

[Frostie]

I dont get it, how can people claim to be experts on the performance of the AMRAAM.

The fact is it kills as many targets as the R77(more than any other missile) and seems to perform in a similair fashion.

 

It seems that people have a mythical illusion about AMRAAMs and that they should have a 90/100% killratio with them, yeah im no expert on them either but the fact that RL 120s shot down 2 broken mig29As means absoloutely nothing IMO.

[GGTharos]

So far the RL KD ratio of the AMRAAM is about 60%, AFAIK. hat's if you don't ignore the Rmax 'likely to miss' launches (and indeed, why ignore them?)

 

There's nothing mythical about its performance. It's a very deadly missile and you should -not- want to be sitting anywhere near its NEZ when the shooting starts.

 

This is NOT the case in LOMAC.

[Frostie]

I know the AMRAAM has an excellant record in RL but surely you realise this is mostly against third world technology hardly the same scenario as lockon. Im not trying to say LO is perfect but its not too bad.

Edit: I dont think there is a bench mark to compare its performance to a lockon scenario.

[GGTharos]

Uhm. Well ... to whit ... in RL R-27 vs. same '3rd world technology' sucked.

 

Also, in LO, the 120 vs. the 'same 3rd world technology' sucks.

 

In RL, the AMRAAM is in fact optimized to attack specifically the MiG-29 and Su-27, being that that was the main opposition to US fighters.

 

Not only is it 'not perfect' but it's definitely worse than 'not too bad'.

[capttrob]

GG, i see you are part of the beta test team for 1.2 (i assume this is Black Shark?). Are there plans to model the missle so it comes a bit closer to the real thing?

[Kula66]

The devs tried to make it more realistic; stuff happened and it didn't work out. They'll still fix it.

 

Yes it was a great shame to hear that the WAFM was not being included in 1.2 ...

[GGTharos]

WAFM is one thing for sure, though in this case I was referring strictly to the seeker/sensor modelling, the guidance constant, and sensitivity to chaff.

[GGTharos]

GG, i see you are part of the beta test team for 1.2 (i assume this is Black Shark?). Are there plans to model the missle so it comes a bit closer to the real thing?

 

Yes, and yes, but there's no telling when updates for the missiles can be squeezed in.

 

Rest assured that despite time constraints ED really do stribve to make the sim as realistic as they can, and if you don't see something fixed in one update, you may well see it fixed in a later one.

 

I can only tell you that there is a -huge- amount of work to do, and they need to work on the focus of the project (namely the Ka-50) ... naturally this should imply that there are things other than the chopper itself that need to be worked on to round out the helo CAS experience. As I said, it is a -big- job and things need to be prioritized.

 

As always, you might not see your most desired thing get worked on but there's -always- something for everyone.

[Frostie]

IMO GG the AMRAAM 'is' deadly in LO, late warnings from TWS shots and HOJ are big pluses for the F15 especially as it is so easy to confuse R27s now, not to mention the best radar. It can be a bit frustrating not getting a kill every time but I put that down to my own failings lol.

[Floyd]

IMO GG the AMRAAM 'is' deadly in LO, late warnings from TWS shots and HOJ are big pluses for the F15 especially as it is so easy to confuse R27s now, not to mention the best radar. It can be a bit frustrating not getting a kill every time but I put that down to my own failings lol.

 

Hm, are you "=EF=Frostie" on the 504 stats?

Looks like you prefer Russian equipment:

 

Air Kills (156), by weapon

 

Weapon Count

AIM-120C 3

AIM-7M 3

R-27ER 28

R-27ET 9

R-27R 3

R-73 34

R-77 74

cannon 2

 

Nice ;)

 

Never thought the 120 is that bad.

[capttrob]

Can i be doing more to get my 120 kill ratio up?

 

I never launch a 120 outside of Rtr. Unless i put out a "feeler" with HOJ. I have never gotten a hit with HOJ, even when the target is within Rmax (turns off jammer for a second and i can see).

 

My kill ratio is about 20% with 120's inside Rtr. I center the steering dot, have launch indications, the range arrow (closure rate indicator on VSD right side) is well within the Rtr slider, and i let her fly. This area is known as the No Escape zone right? If there is anything else i can do to increase my kills above 20% short of getting within AIM-9 range with a 120.. i'd appreciate any tips.... thanks in advance...

[GGTharos]

One simple thing you can do: Shoot -up- at the target. Not down. THis should increase your KD some.

[capttrob]

lol.. funny you say that.. shooting "up". All my launches from today were from Nap of the earth flying... probably no higher than 300agl. Cant get much lower.... :-)

 

Im usualy dodging R77's cause they launch with the range being higher than me... but im still able to center the steering dot and launch mine well within the Rtr. Still no hits.... but the 77 gets me probably 50% of the time...

 

Anything else?

[GGTharos]

Sadly nothing I can think of. What are you doing in the weeds with an interceptor anyway? ;)

[Frostie]

Hm, are you "=EF=Frostie" on the 504 stats?

Looks like you prefer Russian equipment:

 

Air Kills (156), by weapon

 

Weapon Count

AIM-120C 3

AIM-7M 3

R-27ER 28

R-27ET 9

R-27R 3

R-73 34

R-77 74

cannon 2

 

Nice ;)

 

Never thought the 120 is that bad.

 

Lol yes I like mig29 its got an air of sneakiness about it especially in the mountains ,hunting down targets using rwr and eos is probably too easy but against f15s working together that goes out the window.

But I am now enjoying the benefits of the F15 on 169th ,its swings and roundabouts.

[Kula66]

lol.. funny you say that.. shooting "up". All my launches from today were from Nap of the earth flying... probably no higher than 300agl. Cant get much lower.... :-)

 

Im usualy dodging R77's cause they launch with the range being higher than me... but im still able to center the steering dot and launch mine well within the Rtr. Still no hits.... but the 77 gets me probably 50% of the time...

 

Anything else?

 

I tend to shoot from high to low ... seems to work, despite poor modelling of this current WAFM, i.e. you don't get the boost in range you should do!

[capttrob]

Sadly nothing I can think of. What are you doing in the weeds with an interceptor anyway? ;)

 

lol... its the only thing i can do to get my kills up. If i am able to rope them in a bit closer by using line of sight (or lack of) to my advantage... i'll usually get the kill if dogfighting.

 

The 120 is a fire-and-forget (ARH) missle right? Its not like the aim7 where i need to keep the target box inside the ASE circle.. right? As long as the steering dot is centered with launch star when i launch the 120, it "should" find its target on its own.... correct?

[Kenan]

IMO GG the AMRAAM 'is' deadly in LO, late warnings from TWS shots and HOJ are big pluses for the F15 especially as it is so easy to confuse R27s now, not to mention the best radar. It can be a bit frustrating not getting a kill every time but I put that down to my own failings lol.

 

I agree. You'd think by reading all these "Amraam sucks" posts, it could shoot down only bad rookie pilots, or someone by pure luck.

 

This is so misleading and has nothing to do with actual online experience.

 

If I'm talking bullshit, just check the stats. The missile is not modelled perfectly but sure as hell works quite well when being used properly.

[capttrob]

The missile is not modelled perfectly but sure as hell works quite well when being used properly.

 

I'd sure like to know what "properly" means. Im doing everything the book says to do. I've even read up through google searches for tactics. My 7's connect better than my 120's... plain fact for me....

 

Any tips you can give me Kenan? Short of telling me to hop in a MiG29S.... :)

[BeetleJuice]

capttrob: you have to wait till the 120 activates its own seeker, which takes a couple of seconds depending on range, that means you cant fire and turn 180 and run immediately. just FYI.

[Frostie]

Not entirely sure but I think its 10miles from target when it goes active.