UTM and MGRS Coordinates Explained - NOT

[Dudester22]

I have just read the manual on page 459 about UTM and MGRS and for someone who I would say was reasonably intelligent, I just find it difficult to get my head around it. They are trying to explain a grid system but I cannot make sense of it. Can someone put this in like a dummies guide even though I don't consider myself a dummy :lol:

Edited November 2, 2014 by Dudester22

[StrongHarm]

From a previous post:

 

What I understand of the UTM format (being the same as MGRS) is this:

 

Think of it as if you're looking at a paper mapsco book.

(This isn't literal, but makes it practical)

 

MM 12345 67891

 

MM = page

123 = Squares down the page

45 = meters down the '123' square

678 = Squares across the page

91 = meters across the '678' square

 

They may give you MM123678. This gives you the grid but not the exact point within that grid, which is fine because it's only 99 meters.

 

If the coords were MM 12345 06789 they may give you MM12367 because they drop the leading zero from 067. You must still enter the 0 before 67 when entering into the CDU.

 

You can enter UTM into your CDU by switching from L/L (lat/long) mode to UTM mode with LSK R9 (bottom right key). Then by entering the UTM coords in ten number, six number, or less, and selecting LSK L9 (bottom left key) to save them to the waypoint currently showing on the CDU.

 

For more info see Military Map Reading 201 at the Geo-spacial Intelligence Website.

 

 

Someone close the gap if I'm leaving something out, please.

[Mike5560]

I say that MGRS is the metric system of coordinates, every unit is 1/10th of its next higher unit. Lets use 12T ET 12345 45678 for example.

 

MGRS grids read from left to right with increasing precision, with easting and northing 5 digit strings.

 

12T

This is the grid zone designator. Basically a huge swath of area.

 

ET

This is a 100,000 meter square identifier and represents a smaller swath of area (albeit still very large) within the grid zone designator. The E represents easting, while the T represents northing. It's not like lat long coordinates where you measure from one point on the earth (so lat long has South and West measurements also), the letters increase in value as you move east or noth, respectively.

If youre in the ET 100,000 meter area, and you move east enough you will eventually end up at FT.

 

12345 is the easting "string" for lack of a better term. Each number represents its own level of precision. So 1 is 10s of thosands, 2 is thousands (km), 3 is hundreds, 4 is tens and 5 is just meters. So this means that this example is 12,345 meters from the border of DT and ET 100,000 meter grid zones. The northing string works the same way.

 

You will see the JTAC in game pass a "6 digit coordinate" e.g 12T ET 123 456.

This means he is indicating the coordinates are within 100 meters of precision. Its not realistic that a JTAC would be able to pass a true 10 digit grid with true 1 meter precision.

 

Since Earth is a sphere, and MGRS is made of a bunch of giant squares the dont evenly match up when laid out on a sphere, you find some overlapping grid zones. I think theyre even present on the DCS Black Sea map.

 

UTM works the same way as MGRS, only the 100,000 meter square identifier is represented by four numbers (not 2 letters like MGRS). The military came up with letters to simplify the system, as reading and copying down 14 numbers said over a radio can get confusing quick.

[Dudester22]

Just one other thing guys while I am on this subject. When you enter a UTM coordinates given by JTAC, do you always have to set the the dial to FLT PLAN first and then turn it to MISSION? I was wondering if I could just leave it set to MISSION after receiving the first UTM coordinates and enter anymore UTM JTAC coordinates that might come in after that. It does say in the manual it must be set to FLT PLAN first, but I'm not sure if you have to switch it back and forth between each call. Thanks!

[Maverick-X]

This is not related to the JTAC. You have 3 kinds of possible steerpoints:

-Flightplan

-Mark

-Mission

 

Every Navpoint in your database (except markpoints?) are a Missionpoint. If you enter a Missionpoint into a (active) Flightplan, it is a Flightplan Navpoint.

 

So basically all Waypoints entered by the mission designer are available under Flightplan, all waypoints, including the ones created by you are available under mission. If you add one of your created points to the flightplan it is available there aswell. You can also add Markpoints to a flightplan.

[Dudester22]

This is not related to the JTAC. You have 3 kinds of possible steerpoints:

-Flightplan

-Mark

-Mission

 

Every Navpoint in your database (except markpoints?) are a Missionpoint. If you enter a Missionpoint into a (active) Flightplan, it is a Flightplan Navpoint.

 

So basically all Waypoints entered by the mission designer are available under Flightplan, all waypoints, including the ones created by you are available under mission. If you add one of your created points to the flightplan it is available there aswell. You can also add Markpoints to a flightplan.

 

I get what you are saying, but can I leave the dial on MISSION when getting a UTM coordinates from JTAC? Or do I always have to have it set to FLT PLAN first, each time I enter a UTM coordinates by JTAC? I'm unsure because I read this in the manual.

 

To make the UTM coordinate provided by JTAC into a waypoint do the following:

Find a safe area to do a wide orbit. Set your autopilot to ALT and then make a left or right banking

level turn and hold it. Then engage the autopilot and ensure it is holding the turn and you have no

elevation conflicts around you.

The UTM coordinates will be in the form of 2 letters and 6 numbers.

Make sure your STEER PT switch on your AAP Panel is set to FLT PLAN.

Set your right MFCD to the CDU repeater function.

*NOTE: If your CDU is not on the WAYPOINT PAGE, then hit the WP key on the CDU, or FUNC 3 on

the UFC. This will bring up the page where you can choose to select WAYPOINT by hitting OSB 7.

You should now be on the WAYPOINT PAGE and ready to continue.

Hit OSB 10 to switch from the default L/L (Lat/Long) to UTM.

Hit OSB 9 to select the number presented next to the question mark as your new target waypoint.

Using the CDU or the UFC, enter the 2 letters, and 6 numbers without spaces in the scratchpad.

Hit OSB 16 to enter the UTM coordinate in to the computer.

Verify the number entered is correct.

Using the CDU or UFC keypad give your new waypoint a unique name eg: TGT A and hit OSB 7 to

change the name.

Now turn your STEER PT dial on the AAP from FLT PLAN to MISSION.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Dudester22

[PFunk1606688187]

The only thing you need in order to be able to enter a new or edit an old waypoint in the Mission database is to have the Waypoint page up on the CDU. Thats it. Changing the Steer Point dial merely changes which waypoint database your steer points can be drawn from. Thats unrelated for the purposes of creating or editing. You can access those databases regardless of the steer dial position. It only becomes important once you want to use those points for some purpose.

 

I think this is an example of how the DCS manual fails at teaching well, instead merely instructing a procedure without explaining what is and isn't required.

 

That procedure is in fact a bit inefficient. It tells you to create a new waypoint, enter the grid, then rename it. You can choose the name at the same time you're creating the waypoint.

 

Its actually a really simple easy thing to do, made complicated by annoying tutorials. If you ignore the button pressing required to get to the waypoint page and change from L/L to UTM then its a short process.

 

At CDU Waypoint page

• Enter new waypoint name into scratchpad
  
• Create the new waypoint (OSB 9/LSK R3)
  
• Enter grid into scratch pad
  
• Enter grid into new waypoint grid field (OSB 16/LSK L4)
  

 

Done. And people think the CDU is complicated.

[Dudester22]

I think this is an example of how the DCS manual fails at teaching well, instead merely instructing a procedure without explaining what is and isn't required.

 

That procedure is in fact a bit inefficient. It tells you to create a new waypoint, enter the grid, then rename it. You can choose the name at the same time you're creating the waypoint.

 

This is they way I did did it before reading the manual. I think you are right about the manual failing to teaching you well, it just complicates a very easy procedure. I think I'm just going back to watching videos ect.

 

I think I'm nearly there learning most things. I'v'e just got emergency procedures to learn and the CDU. I also have to get used to using the DMS and TMS switch without getting confused in the heat of battle.

[effte]

Way back when I wrote an introduction to UTM/MGRS. That should get you going.

 

If not, ask questions in that thread and I'll do my best to answer them. I have it subscribed, and even if me leaving the army since then means I get less practice I think traces of it are still lodged in this old head of mine. :)

 

It should probably be pointed out that while MGRS is based on UTM, they are not at all the same. The bug with JTAC dropping leading zeroes was fixed a long time ago, first with a simple LUA patch and then from ED IIRC.

 

Cheers,

/Fred

Edited November 2, 2014 by effte

[StrongHarm]

MGRS isn't within the scope of the manual. There are a lot of general theory topics that I think were omitted for very good reason. The manual is more of a technical publication than a training syllabus. It's a foundational document containing targeted technical specifications that requires external research and clarification. I think this was a good idea. The manual is already very long. According to my calculations 71.86% of users don't fully read the manual. If it were longer that number would be greater. We live in a world that demands instant gratification.

 

I should have mentioned that my post was nearly four years old. Like the manual it was just intended to provide foundational understanding, but the link to Military Map Reading 201 provides more specific information.

[Dudester22]

@14_JAR

 

I get it now after looking at this training guide, but what I don't get is that DCS world map only shows the grid upto GG21. It doesn't include the smaller grids with numbers, so am I right in thinking I won't be able to use DCS map to find my own coordinates? I did notice there are some downloads like Batumi, but isn't there anything that covers the would of the DCS world map?

[WildBillKelsoe]

Press FN + 3 -> STEERPOINT.

 

then press new ?# RSK then LL OR MGRS to your liking, punch in numbers making sure it is 37 or 38 T, give name. Then punch altitude.

 

Next

Press FN + 5 -> FLIGHTPLAN. INSERT@ -> name given -> LSK.

 

cycle rocker. End of story.

[Scooternutz]

Jar,

Did a lot of solo flying with the A-10C using the VNAO MGRS maps. I was at 12k flying in a clockwise pattern to keep the TGP clear. That is a real asset when FACing.

 

The issue I saw right from the start was the TGP did not show the buildings from that altitude. Without that I would not be able to give a good talk on using landmark references.

 

Using the TGP and the Mk-1 Eyeball I could get a true look-down of the target area. This could only be accomplished provided SAM/AAA threats are knocked out.

 

Just thoughts....