MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[Hadwell]

alright, thanks for the info, going to need to practice some more i think...

[GGTharos]

Oh, incidentally I wanted to add that you're not wrong about missiles 'going wobbly' - I'm just saying that this isn't what will necessarily happen.

 

HOWEVER! Here's a missile going nuts due to too many target in the FoV with correct spacing etc :D

 

... watch from 4:00

[Art-J]

HOWEVER! Here's a missile going nuts due to too many target in the FoV with correct spacing etc :D

 

... watch from 4:00

 

Like a kid in a candy store. That looked funny :D.

[lucien]

Oh, incidentally I wanted to add that you're not wrong about missiles 'going wobbly' - I'm just saying that this isn't what will necessarily happen.

 

HOWEVER! Here's a missile going nuts due to too many target in the FoV with correct spacing etc :D

 

... watch from 4:00

 

neat video lol poor f-4s

[ttaylor0024]

Just got out of a pretty good dogfight with a 104th member in a SU-27. I should have EASILY won the dogfight, but I was dead-set on trying the R-60M out... Had a good shooting solution, but had the switch in SARH still, and as I flipped it he saw me. About 30s later I had a bad shot but took it anyway, and the missile went stupid right off the rail. Decided my last one wasn't going to hit anything and dropped it in order to be more agile and get a good guns solution. By this time the SU-27 had turned and burned, and I decided to pick up a little speed as well for the next merge. At this point, he shot 2 R-73s at me to which I rolled flared and evaded both. Right as we merge again he rudders over and gets what couldn't be more than 3 rounds into my nosecone causing my engine to quit.

 

Moral of the story- Guns beat everything. I have it recorded if you guys want me to post it. It's kinda like flopping fishbed pt. 2 because I lost sight of him a few times only to find out he was hiding behind a canopy bar or something. It's easier to see a Skyhawk in real life than it is to see these aircraft in-game.

 

EDIT:

 

Flopping Fishbed 2: Return of the facepalm will be live here in a few short minutes.

Edited December 17, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[scaflight]

Just got out of a pretty good dogfight with a 104th member in a SU-27. I should have EASILY won the dogfight, but I was dead-set on trying the R-60M out... Had a good shooting solution, but had the switch in SARH still, and as I flipped it he saw me. About 30s later I had a bad shot but took it anyway, and the missile went stupid right off the rail. Decided my last one wasn't going to hit anything and dropped it in order to be more agile and get a good guns solution. By this time the SU-27 had turned and burned, and I decided to pick up a little speed as well for the next merge. At this point, he shot 2 R-73s at me to which I rolled flared and evaded both. Right as we merge again he rudders over and gets what couldn't be more than 3 rounds into my nosecone causing my engine to quit.

 

Moral of the story- Guns beat everything.

 

And you didn't go on Skype to let me know. You bastard.

[ttaylor0024]

And you didn't go on Skype to let me know. You bastard.

 

haha sorry, I was doing a quick flight. Going to the gym now, then to get instrument re-current so I can fly IFR with my students again.

 

Video is live, feel free to grab a bag of popcorn and laugh at my incompetence

 

EDIT: Also found a document basically saying that if an F-15 gets in a turning fight with a MiG-21 then the F-15 is toast. Was one of the US studies too with a captured MiG-21

Edited December 18, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[ff4life4]

Does it count as a kill if I merged with an Su-27, dogfighted for about 2 minutes. Then his plane just went limp in the air and ejected? Lol not sure what happened there, he passed off my nose and as I came tbrought the 180 his plane was slowly falling flat like a pancake. Wonder if he ran out of gas or somehow departed controlled flight. I don't know much about su27.

 

Other highlights include chasing amother fighter and hitting him with an r-60.

 

There was also an A-10 who was really lost flying over fighters bullseye. He was an easy takedown.

 

I just flew for a quick hour last night. But now I'm done with finals I'll try to link up with you guys and get a 3 or 4 ship flight going.

[GGTharos]

A 'document' or a USAF study?

 

Because the USAF study says no such thing - there are, however, a few people writing 'documents' that try to say that by using said study.

 

The study itself is about dissimilar air combat and they point out that the MiG-21 can do something interesting in a particular flight envelope. It also says that is the only thing the MiG-21 can do that would surprise you, and otherwise it can't really hang in the fight. The MiG-21 is the only aircraft to be an F-15 guns kill, so you tell me how 'toast' that is :)

 

EDIT: Also found a document basically saying that if an F-15 gets in a turning fight with a MiG-21 then the F-15 is toast. Was one of the US studies too with a captured MiG-21

[GGTharos]

Yes, it's called a maneuver kill. A game doesn't know how to count that, but if you force your opponent to run out of fuel, eject or fly into the ground, it's still your kill. If you force him to turn back he's a mission kill.

 

Does it count as a kill if I merged with an Su-27, dogfighted for about 2 minutes. Then his plane just went limp in the air and ejected? Lol not sure what happened there, he passed off my nose and as I came tbrought the 180 his plane was slowly falling flat like a pancake. Wonder if he ran out of gas or somehow departed controlled flight. I don't know much about su27.

[ttaylor0024]

A 'document' or a USAF study?

 

Because the USAF study says no such thing - there are, however, a few people writing 'documents' that try to say that by using said study.

 

The study itself is about dissimilar air combat and they point out that the MiG-21 can do something interesting in a particular flight envelope. It also says that is the only thing the MiG-21 can do that would surprise you, and otherwise it can't really hang in the fight. The MiG-21 is the only aircraft to be an F-15 guns kill, so you tell me how 'toast' that is :)

 

We all obviously know that basically every aircraft created since the MiG-21 is better. It's have to be stupid to believe the MiG-21 is better than the F-15. We know the differences, and it's not even a contest.

 

However

 

The aircraft is only as good as the pilot inside it, meaning that the pilot has toe play on the advantages of the aircraft, which is why the MiG stays low, strikes, and gets out. Especially seeing how the test squadrons at Nellis had this information to say about the MiG should be enough proof that this is enough of a strength to be able to play on. You fight your own fight in the MiG, not anyone else's. You can keep flaunting these different kills from poorly trained pilots in foreign countries that nobody's ever heard of, but the fact of the matter is that nobody flying these sims are highly trained my the U.S. military, and the fact that we don't even have an F-15 model that's remotely high fidelity.

[Svend_Dellepude]

I have no idea where this guy gets his data from, but here goes.

 

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?180731-Modern-fighter-combat-records

 

Doesn't look good for the -21..

[ttaylor0024]

I have no idea where this guy gets his data from, but here goes.

 

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?180731-Modern-fighter-combat-records

 

Doesn't look good for the -21..

 

Obviously not, the -21 is a 3rd gen fighter. It can just start to see enemies on radar when they can already be releasing missiles. It's not even a fight.

[Svend_Dellepude]

I know and I have no idea how you kill those poor -15's and -27's but you have my respect.

Have yet to be killed by one of you though. :)

[ttaylor0024]

I know and I have no idea how you kill those poor -15's and -27's but you have my respect.

Have yet to be killed by one of you though. :)

 

We will find you...... :thumbup:

[SilentGun]

We will find you...... :thumbup:

 

 

And we will end you...

[lucien]

I know and I have no idea how you kill those poor -15's and -27's but you have my respect.

Have yet to be killed by one of you though. :)

 

your f-15 sucks bud

 

[ttaylor0024]

Hopped on the 159th tonight... After playing on the 104th so much, any other server is easy. 5 kills, 2 from guns, 1 R-60M, and 2 R-3R. MiG-21 was on top of the leaderboard above all the Gen-4s

[scaflight]

Hopped on the 159th tonight... After playing on the 104th so much, any other server is easy. 5 kills, 2 from guns, 1 R-60M, and 2 R-3R. MiG-21 was on top of the leaderboard above all the Gen-4s

But then none of them relied on teamwork *cough cough* (I was with Taylor and scored 2 F-15s, one with R-60M, one guns). And apart from Matt in his F-15 over the mountains to the NE they were very demonstrably not used to maneuvering in a dogfight at all.

 

Edit: ANd we were blue coalition, which gets awacs picture.

Edited December 19, 2014 by scaflight

[ttaylor0024]

But then none of them relied on teamwork *cough cough* (I was with Taylor and scored 2 F-15s, one with R-60M, one guns). And apart from Matt in his F-15 over the mountains to the NE they were very demonstrably not used to maneuvering in a dogfight at all.

 

Edit: ANd we were blue coalition, which gets awacs picture.

 

Shhh, your supposed to make the MiG sound good... Haha

 

But yes, teamed up the MiG is much better. It was very easy to bait those F-15s to the mountains, in which one would go defensive and the other would... End the f-15.

 

If anyone else wants to join, we would like to get a school of fish to swarm people

[HellToupee]

Just got out of a pretty good dogfight with a 104th member in a SU-27. I should have EASILY won the dogfight, but I was dead-set on trying the R-60M out... Had a good shooting solution, but had the switch in SARH still, and as I flipped it he saw me. About 30s later I had a bad shot but took it anyway, and the missile went stupid right off the rail. Decided my last one wasn't going to hit anything and dropped it in order to be more agile and get a good guns solution. By this time the SU-27 had turned and burned, and I decided to pick up a little speed as well for the next merge. At this point, he shot 2 R-73s at me to which I rolled flared and evaded both. Right as we merge again he rudders over and gets what couldn't be more than 3 rounds into my nosecone causing my engine to quit.

 

You need to turn your radar off in those situations, likely the reason he saw you in the first place.

[ttaylor0024]

You need to turn your radar off in those situations, likely the reason he saw you in the first place.

 

It was already off by the time he started looking for me, he just checked 6

[ff4life4]

It was already off by the time he started looking for me, he just checked 6

 

Actually kind of surprised someone discovered you by actually looking outside their canopy and not at their radar! :smartass:

 

I had a similar experience where the guy saw me, but apparently he thought I was on his team and was forming up in formation with him! :megalol:

 

I was gonna hit him with the gun, but I honestly thought somehow I messed up and this guy was friendly because I was close with him and he was just chilling, popping a flare or 2 to say hello.

 

I back up, IFF him, sure enough he was enemy, R-60 away!

[scaflight]

Actually kind of surprised someone discovered you by actually looking outside their canopy and not at their radar! :smartass:

 

I had a similar experience where the guy saw me, but apparently he thought I was on his team and was forming up in formation with him! :megalol:

 

I was gonna hit him with the gun, but I honestly thought somehow I messed up and this guy was friendly because I was close with him and he was just chilling, popping a flare or 2 to say hello.

 

I back up, IFF him, sure enough he was enemy, R-60 away!

 

That's when you put in chat: FISHBED PD, DROP YOUR WEAPONS

[ttaylor0024]

Actually kind of surprised someone discovered you by actually looking outside their canopy and not at their radar! :smartass:

 

I had a similar experience where the guy saw me, but apparently he thought I was on his team and was forming up in formation with him! :megalol:

 

I was gonna hit him with the gun, but I honestly thought somehow I messed up and this guy was friendly because I was close with him and he was just chilling, popping a flare or 2 to say hello.

 

I back up, IFF him, sure enough he was enemy, R-60 away!

 

lol I had a similar experience the other day. Playing on the 104th I had just discovered another enemy F-15 after I had just splashed one. He was too close for missiles, so i switched to guns (first topgun reference of the thread?) After I passed him I was still undetected, however I ended up losing him because of how extremely unrealistic it is to see other targets in this game.... I can see a skyhawk fairly easily at 5nm in real life... Kept searching for him when I see a Flanker on my tail. I do some quick maneuvering and the Flanker stalls, in which I was still too close for radar so I decide pulling up on his left wing in formation makes the most logic. I figured that he didn't pull hard to get away from me so he had to be friendly.... Turns out I was right lol