MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[Brisse]

I have tried fixed beam, and since you have to point your nose directly at the target to lock it up, it's pretty much useless for anything but a target that is flying straight and level, unaware of your presence.

[xxJohnxx]

Instead of the fixed beam mode you can also hold down the "lock" button.

When you to that, and there is no target within the TDC gate, the radar scans a narrower scan pattern which decreases scanning time and can make locking the targets a bit easier.

[ttaylor0024]

I'm starting to get the hang of the MiG-21, and having successes online. Went from getting destroyed all the time to consistently getting kills (8 one match) online on various servers PvP.

 

What's worked:

1. Staying low, using AWAC to find enemy, keep radar off until in range (according to AWAC), turn on, pop up, strike
   
2. Finding targets using radar, turn the radar off, accelerate, turn on, repeat until within firing range
   
3. Slow movers you can just lock on for the most part.
   

 

As far as scanning goes, I don't know how you guys do it, but I bank 45* left and right scanning the skies for targets. Don't know the best procedures for this yet, but experimenting with rates of turns to make sure I don't miss targets. Also noticing on Tacview recordings that I'm missing a lot of enemies flying well over me, so trying to change that as well.

 

Biggest tips:

Keep an eye out for contrails. Dead giveaway to enemy position. If you see one, hit the deck and intercept from below using the locked beam, locking the fighter (press lock when the beam splits in half, the it will lock normally), then fire quickly. Twice this has worked out in the last hour alone.

[lucien]

Instead of the fixed beam mode you can also hold down the "lock" button.

When you to that, and there is no target within the TDC gate, the radar scans a narrower scan pattern which decreases scanning time and can make locking the targets a bit easier.

 

I tried this yesterday with limited success. Seems about as effective as repeatedly clicking the lock button like I've been doing but its deff a cool feature of the radar :D I can imagine it will really come in handy when the targets disappear on you

[Why485]

This thread has me really chomping at the bit to try this myself. I love flying the MiG-21 but I never thought to try it online because I figured it would just be cannon fodder. However with all these videos you guys are putting up I need to try this myself. Looks like a lot of fun.

[ff4life4]

It is very satisfying when you get a kill against moden planes. I started first by going after where enemy a/g planes worked on the 104th. (Don't hate me lol). I would stay low sneak in and hit one or two a10s or su25s and run back home. Beware that a10s are tough to take down. Hit them with at least 2 missiles to be sure they go down.

 

Then I started practicing against fighters. While it's very difficult, and I usually die more than I kill, it's valuable practice. Plus it's an absolutely amazing feeling to kill a fighter with 30 mile range missiles with a 1 mile range r-60m from behind when they had no idea you were there!

 

I have also noticed that figthing in the Mig will really make you a much better fighter pilot in the modern fighters. Not having good technology forces you back to learn the basics. You really need to out think the enemy, and strike them when you have the advantage. Having no hud, basic radar, and basic rwr, relatively shot range weapons really makes you a lot better when you have good equipment. Aside from the joy of flying the Mig 21 i have learned a TON of skills, and now I'm much more successful when I fire up the f15. These skills will stay with me as I go on to the F-18c and other fighters that come out.

 

Not to mention when I team up with someone on TeamSpeak you really learn a lot about communication and tactics. A favorite was using one as a bait and the other hiding in the mountains below as a hunter. Flying with others will build your teamwork skills.

 

Yes it will be difficult to learn to fight against modern planes with the mig21. It will be downright frustrating at times. However skills learned here will really be valuable

Edited December 1, 2014 by ff4life4

[Svend_Dellepude]

Amazing! :D There must be some flanker and Eagle drivers out there that feels pretty ashamed of themselves... :D

Good job guys!

[ttaylor0024]

SO rewarding getting kills on the high-tech guys. I think the last couple days I'm a grand total of 15-1 or so... Not bad considering only 3 or 4 are against anything other than a fast-mover!

 

You really learn how to bait them in. I usually will offset the RWR to a 45* angle, wait for them to fire, then just turn 45* or so away from the missile and then crank around when I think it's out of energy until I am within striking range. The ground/mountains are your best friend though!

[Hadwell]

I don't really have anything new to add...

 

but I'd like to say that I'm glad other people are able who do this kinda stuff too, for a while there i was kinda lonely...

 

thanks for making this thread, and giving me a place to vent my frustrations (show others how i do it)...

 

And yes, flying the mig-21 will make you a better mig-29+ pilot, stop relying on the uber missiles, rely on your skills and your planes performance, will get you a lot more kills, less deaths.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Hadwell

[lucien]

This thread has me really chomping at the bit to try this myself. I love flying the MiG-21 but I never thought to try it online because I figured it would just be cannon fodder. However with all these videos you guys are putting up I need to try this myself. Looks like a lot of fun.

 

I say we take the F-86 on 104 next :D

 

It is very satisfying when you get a kill against moden planes. I started first by going after where enemy a/g planes worked on the 104th. (Don't hate me lol). I would stay low sneak in and hit one or two a10s or su25s and run back home. Beware that a10s are tough to take down. Hit them with at least 2 missiles to be sure they go down.

 

Then I started practicing against fighters. While it's very difficult, and I usually die more than I kill, it's valuable practice. Plus it's an absolutely amazing feeling to kill a fighter with 30 mile range missiles with a 1 mile range r-60m from behind when they had no idea you were there!

 

I have also noticed that figthing in the Mig will really make you a much better fighter pilot in the modern fighters. Not having good technology forces you back to learn the basics. You really need to out think the enemy, and strike them when you have the advantage. Having no hud, basic radar, and basic rwr, relatively shot range weapons really makes you a lot better when you have good equipment. Aside from the joy of flying the Mig 21 i have learned a TON of skills, and now I'm much more successful when I fire up the f15. These skills will stay with me as I go on to the F-18c and other fighters that come out.

 

Not to mention when I team up with someone on TeamSpeak you really learn a lot about communication and tactics. A favorite was using one as a bait and the other hiding in the mountains below as a hunter. Flying with others will build your teamwork skills.

 

Yes it will be difficult to learn to fight against modern planes with the mig21. It will be downright frustrating at times. However skills learned here will really be valuable

 

Agreed there, although I don't really fly FC3 very often. I've killed more fighters with the 21 than modern fighters :lol:

 

Amazing! :D There must be some flanker and Eagle drivers out there that feels pretty ashamed of themselves... :D

Good job guys!

 

Actually for all my kills, 1/2 of them left the game right after they crashed =/

 

SO rewarding getting kills on the high-tech guys. I think the last couple days I'm a grand total of 15-1 or so... Not bad considering only 3 or 4 are against anything other than a fast-mover!

 

You really learn how to bait them in. I usually will offset the RWR to a 45* angle, wait for them to fire, then just turn 45* or so away from the missile and then crank around when I think it's out of energy until I am within striking range. The ground/mountains are your best friend though!

 

15-1? That's pretty impressive. Last few flights I've been getting shot down by SAMS in low altitude and 104th_Highway.

I don't really have anything new to add...

 

but I'd like to say that I'm glad other people are able who do this kinda stuff too, for a while there i was kinda lonely...

 

thanks for making this thread, and giving me a place to vent my frustrations (show others how i do it)...

 

And yes, flying the mig-21 will make you a better mig-29+ pilot, stop relying on the uber missiles, rely on your skills and your planes performance, will get you a lot more kills, less deaths.

 

Thank you for joining the thread. If not for you I would probably still be 0-66 in the MiG 21 lol.

[Why485]

So, here were my results. I didn't get any kills, but all my losses were attributed to me fumbling with the controls or some other kind of systems error on my part. All things considered, I'm surprised with how well I did. I somehow managed to maneuver myself in for a kill on three separate occasions (first one wasn't recorded) and it's only because of my own inexperience that I didn't secure a kill.

 

What this really proved is that I just need more practice with the minutiae of the MiG-21's weapon selection but more importantly I need to rebind a lot of my commands because I spent far too much time bumbling around in the cockpit. I'm also finding that for whatever reason LNS included next to no toggles, so I'm quickly running out of space on my X52 to put all these switches.

 

4mA74e0RIrw

[scaflight]

So, here were my results. I didn't get any kills, but all my losses were attributed to me fumbling with the controls or some other kind of systems error on my part. All things considered, I'm surprised with how well I did. I somehow managed to maneuver myself in for a kill on three separate occasions (first one wasn't recorded) and it's only because of my own inexperience that I didn't secure a kill.

 

What this really proved is that I just need more practice with the minutiae of the MiG-21's weapon selection but more importantly I need to rebind a lot of my commands because I spent far too much time bumbling around in the cockpit. I'm also finding that for whatever reason LNS included next to no toggles, so I'm quickly running out of space on my X52 to put all these switches.

 

4mA74e0RIrw

 

Oh, that was painful to watch. My immediate reaction to your lack of operable missiles was to look for pylon power (but your camera never looked down there, argh!). If you like checklists, pylon power is a first for A2A and A2G. :)

 

You'd never think it, but it's incredible how much the forward metal on the canopy and the rear sight gets in your way. Irks me quite a bit, since enemies seem to end up there a disproportionate amount of time >:E

 

Like you (I suspect), I started out wanting to do a very analogue kind of joystick assignment: I took what was on the real stick and put it on my Saitek, and left a lot of buttons open. I've since come to the conclusion that cockpit management in a dogfight pairs poor visibility with lack of a tactile sense, and it's not a ton more realistic to want to flick the switch with the mouse. In real life a pilot can feel the row of switches while maintaining visual on the bogey, and in this god damned aircraft a visual is the most important thing. I've therefore moved the IR-SAR switch to joystick pan (left of pickle), and I switch the 1-2 and 3-4 stations on throttle index finger pan. I hope it'll pay off.

 

I don't know if you have your afterburner set to kick in at >90% throttle, but beware if you do that coming in and out of AB kicks out a cloud of exhaust which is immediately visible. When I fly with a friend of mine and we try to get visual on each other, that gas cloud is a lot more visible than any flickering of lights. In a dogfight it's the easiest way of all for an opponent to see you.

 

edit: I was going to add, but the one below me also posted, that station numbers are arranged with odds left, evens right. 3-1-(Center)-2-4

Edited December 2, 2014 by scaflight

[ttaylor0024]

So, here were my results. I didn't get any kills, but all my losses were attributed to me fumbling with the controls or some other kind of systems error on my part. All things considered, I'm surprised with how well I did. I somehow managed to maneuver myself in for a kill on three separate occasions (first one wasn't recorded) and it's only because of my own inexperience that I didn't secure a kill.

 

What this really proved is that I just need more practice with the minutiae of the MiG-21's weapon selection but more importantly I need to rebind a lot of my commands because I spent far too much time bumbling around in the cockpit. I'm also finding that for whatever reason LNS included next to no toggles, so I'm quickly running out of space on my X52 to put all these switches.

 

4mA74e0RIrw

 

lol'd at the "Every problem has been solved by flying faster in the MiG-21."

 

Double check your pylons when you can't fire. I have had a couple times where it just flat wont work, but the stations are, from left to right, 3, 1, 2, 4. 3 is left outboard, 1 left inboard, 2 right inboard, 4 right outboard.

[lucien]

So just now I was maneuvering into a kill on another Su-27. Had him on the radar locked but no missile tone. I look at my pylon power and its on so I'm like wtf?

 

 

Apparently you can maneuver so hard that your missiles fly off too? pretty dumb in my opinion... has anyone else encountered this?

 

 

@Why485 But still that landing tho.

Edited December 2, 2014 by lucien

[Hadwell]

 

 

...Apparently you can maneuver so hard that your missiles fly off too? pretty dumb in my opinion... has anyone else encountered this?...

 

 

Yeah, loose weapon pylons seems to be a feature.... it doesn't effect single air2air missiles as much as it effects rocket pods, a2g missiles, or those R60 racks.

 

as for fumbling around with controls, i suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning, won't take long...

 

go offline, set controls so you have to take your hands off your throttle and stick as little as possible, in the real cockpit, things are only inches away from each other anyway, having it all on your stick or keyboard in more convenient places than the stupid default keys is far more realistic than any stupid mouse click, as cool as it is to be able to actually flick a switch on.

 

they were nice enough to provide some simple target practice missions offline, practice the medium and hard missions till you can confidently fire any missile the very second you know the missile will hit, you want to be like clint eastwood in a few dollars more, when he kills those 4 guys in like 2 seconds flat literally, before you even bother trying to kill stuff online.... trust me, will save you hours of frustration.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Hadwell

[ff4life4]

100% agreed Hadwell. Using the Mig-21 as a weapons platform really needs to be second nature. You really need to know exactly what your doing and be efficient between selecting pylons 1-4, IR/SAR, Radar on/standby, TDC slew, locking, IFF, ground clutter filters, jamming filters. It should all be second nature. The hard part is finding and getting in range of targets, while avoiding missiles and guns yourself. That's where difficulties should occur.

[ff4life4]

So, here were my results. I didn't get any kills, but all my losses were attributed to me fumbling with the controls or some other kind of systems error on my part. All things considered, I'm surprised with how well I did. I somehow managed to maneuver myself in for a kill on three separate occasions (first one wasn't recorded) and it's only because of my own inexperience that I didn't secure a kill.

 

What this really proved is that I just need more practice with the minutiae of the MiG-21's weapon selection but more importantly I need to rebind a lot of my commands because I spent far too much time bumbling around in the cockpit. I'm also finding that for whatever reason LNS included next to no toggles, so I'm quickly running out of space on my X52 to put all these switches.

 

4mA74e0RIrw

 

This video was very cringe-worthy. However you have done the most difficult thing, which was get close to your enemy and be in a position to strike. The mechanical skills will come with practice. But don't give up!

[ttaylor0024]

Right when I was getting to feel good about myself, having a great K/D in the MiG, I decide to hop on the 104th server today... Was getting ripped apart by the skilled F-15 guys. Would dodge about 3 or 4 AMRAAMS, then have him get behind me and get nailed by an AIM-9.

 

I would get within firing range by getting the RWR search tone from the 15 once, or seeingn the target in radar once, then turn the radar off, hit the deck, maneuver around and managed to get a love once, but had to immediately evade a missile or two. Fun stuff, but when you go up against skilled pilots you really have to improvise and come up with new tactics to use that aren't conventional. If anyone on here is up to fly with me, a wingman would make a HUGE difference. Shoot me a PM if so

[Why485]

Thanks for the comments everybody. Believe me, it's even worse watching it back knowing it's my own footage. The second clip and its overlaid text is a little misleading because I don't have the footage from before that clip starts. It makes it look a little worse than it actually was, but only a little.

 

What scaflight mentioned with mapping the stick is exactly what I had done when I first started flying it and offline it worked well enough. However, that doesn't cut it when you're playing online vs. F-15s and Su-27s and every second counts.

 

I spent a few minutes this morning with a completely new set of control bindings and I now feel a lot more comfortable. Things like having the IFF and jamming filter bound are incredibly important when playing online. You don’t have the time to waste clicking things in the cockpit. I've also moved all the radar commands such as high angle, beam, and radar on/off to much faster to reach places.

 

I ran through the hardest version of the target practice mission several times after that and I even though I'm not fully used to these new bindings I can immediately tell that I'm already much quicker and make much less mistakes.

 

A lot of it comes down to experience and practice, and that first night online was a rude awakening to how good I thought I was operating the weapons under pressure. Still, I am pretty proud of myself for having maneuvered myself into kill shots on three occasions. That I fumbled with the controls is unfortunate, but that's the easily correctable part if you ask me.

 

Oh, and about the canopy frame, I never realized how restrictive it was until those online fights. Your forward view is really limited, and you have no rear visibility at all. I had a hard time keeping track of targets because they would get lost in the armored canopy. It can be helped by putting your head up to the glass, but it's something I need to be very wary of.

 

Despite getting shot down more than a few times (and flying into a mountain or two) I had a boat load of fun. I'm out of town for the rest of the week, but I can't wait to give it another go when I get back.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Why485

[ttaylor0024]

Another sortie down, another frustrating end. After searching for about 30-45 minutes I finally found (got shot at by surprise) an F-15. After evading a few AMRAAMs (between 2 and 5 I believe) I got a visual on him. Maneuvering nicely behind him, I was just out of range of my R-60Ms, so I switch to locked beam on the radar, lock him up, change to pylon 1 to select an R-3R, turn to SAR mode, lock, press the release button andddddddddddddddddddd click. Nothing happens. Switch to pylon 2 to select the other, click..... nothing happens. Evidently they had been ripped off the wings while I was maneuvering. I realize they aren't there and quickly switch to IR once more, pylon 4, and pull up in order to reverse course in order to get on the 6 of the now head-on pass the F-15 and I are about to do, and as I complete the vertical roll and am rolling out on his 6 I see he erupted into flames as he lawn-darted into the side of the hill.

 

Victory overall for me, however it didn't count as a kill for obvious reasons. What's the max G loading for the R-3Rs? I didn't think they would be ripped off at all

 

EDIT: 109th server doesn't save Tacview, but the flight data recorder showed the max G load was 9.814242.

 

Time		H (m)		IAS (km/h)	G_vert 		G_horiz 	RPM 		AoA 		Hydro_m 	Hydro_b 	SAU 		Fors 		Trigger 
1612.000000	2363.702877	696.204153	2.094071	0.328851	91.063812	6.898459	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1613.000000	2440.682341	686.252872	1.957727	0.324193	91.189812	6.630278	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1614.000000	2513.123252	676.935250	2.089455	0.332627	90.973812	7.501015	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1615.000000	2579.831683	667.506530	2.397637	0.369401	90.817812	9.093628	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1616.000000	2642.707342	657.479634	2.442056	0.377589	90.715812	9.636659	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1617.000000	2701.188784	648.488735	2.031592	0.329669	90.613812	7.945126	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1618.000000	2753.763442	642.945923	1.936612	0.326693	90.799812	7.670358	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1619.000000	2799.641697	637.586927	2.047185	0.341256	90.811812	8.375760	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1620.000000	2838.317575	633.561124	2.022807	0.337642	90.709812	8.397324	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1621.000000	2869.618185	630.662389	2.041686	0.340081	90.667812	8.591781	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1622.000000	2894.029296	628.978767	2.038220	0.340316	90.679812	8.621274	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1623.000000	2911.506183	628.592472	2.039430	0.340876	90.691812	8.648395	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1624.000000	2922.243834	629.372044	2.049000	0.340330	90.649812	8.673761	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1625.000000	2926.684588	631.315921	2.065427	0.341389	90.661812	8.696242	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1626.000000	2925.129738	634.291419	2.080625	0.341678	90.673812	8.673921	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1627.000000	2918.082017	638.262189	2.100814	0.343622	90.745812	8.646779	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1628.000000	2905.958825	643.037372	2.131740	0.345475	90.757812	8.671286	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1629.000000	2889.463397	648.941283	2.733673	0.700942	93.391812	11.353476	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1630.000000	2870.834438	658.914685	3.029162	0.744222	97.567812	12.313376	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1631.000000	2851.886357	669.238051	2.701814	0.609801	97.351812	10.472879	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1632.000000	2832.645731	679.006674	2.693221	0.592894	96.223812	10.079957	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1633.000000	2813.029326	688.637106	2.734729	0.589810	95.839812	9.926811	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1634.000000	2792.722636	698.679357	2.761102	0.584844	95.509812	9.705444	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1635.000000	2771.728577	708.441613	2.818012	0.576761	95.407812	9.354790	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1636.000000	2747.843099	722.380369	1.256455	0.459776	95.479812	3.163391	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1637.000000	2702.639980	736.017205	5.825140	1.384101	97.087812	20.311776	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1638.000000	2600.442812	732.630994	6.909579	1.828424	98.923812	24.901992	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1639.000000	2439.753323	741.533956	6.042697	1.275916	97.171812	20.344381	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1640.000000	2242.926963	778.352074	2.458859	0.348335	91.597812	6.143702	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1641.000000	2039.265379	819.435441	1.633992	0.446940	93.661812	2.845522	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1642.000000	1833.063479	866.163570	1.844643	0.456455	94.645812	2.737242	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1643.000000	1622.341435	913.181394	3.822688	0.593613	95.113812	7.439625	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1644.000000	1423.857944	942.906959	6.085863	0.924296	94.669812	12.340989	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1645.000000	1259.984555	960.466939	7.549761	0.983095	90.523812	15.125979	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1646.000000	1142.209194	966.729136	4.617624	0.346242	89.167812	8.172534	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1647.000000	1062.232837	972.297929	5.256544	0.414295	88.609812	9.447713	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1648.000000	1020.014531	973.723910	2.576632	0.134341	88.339812	3.321140	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1649.000000	992.238876	972.591737	8.312301	1.128145	88.237812	16.593063	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1650.000000	975.671433	930.417761	9.814242	1.757461	88.135812	21.460135	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1651.000000	972.809386	894.091353	8.988101	1.563282	88.207812	20.882005	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1652.000000	976.673573	878.479552	0.569357	0.177393	88.105812	-0.861370	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1653.000000	980.065412	881.809885	2.331868	0.181638	88.117812	4.588548	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1654.000000	982.889499	854.486333	9.347943	1.878607	88.645812	23.910424	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1655.000000	989.444662	818.396282	7.758130	1.368959	89.569812	20.766769	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1656.000000	994.699311	795.112523	7.201838	1.266381	87.985812	20.756142	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1657.000000	985.062361	770.339430	2.777782	0.278323	87.373812	7.552440	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1658.000000	967.523065	776.989773	1.912643	0.210407	87.841812	3.993159	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1659.000000	955.862235	784.677825	1.546957	0.248817	89.677812	2.746404	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
1660.000000	948.797566	791.878563	1.449086	0.235762	89.407812	2.289439	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1661.000000	943.990293	799.431065	1.045373	0.198295	88.393812	0.926598	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1662.000000	938.631429	806.219731	1.214172	0.185941	88.063812	1.401606	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1663.000000	935.225940	811.793054	1.457315	0.182948	87.907812	2.072158	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1664.000000	935.940077	816.690836	1.275863	0.181606	88.033812	1.477497	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1665.000000	939.875600	821.031324	1.361482	0.175527	87.817812	1.673211	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1666.000000	947.580448	824.223617	1.592550	0.180939	88.003812	2.393847	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1667.000000	960.833153	825.466802	2.538518	0.256555	88.927812	5.413877	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1668.000000	981.724210	816.854643	4.945365	0.606498	89.395812	12.635921	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1669.000000	1012.987033	804.089729	4.368261	0.525324	89.581812	11.375992	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1670.000000	1051.839063	790.732287	4.364167	0.541547	89.593812	11.788139	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
1671.000000	1096.969171	776.635836	4.247428	0.542602	89.719812	11.911413	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	

Edited December 3, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[coldViPer]

Very interesting thread, have to try also. What is the best EU server? ;)

[scaflight]

ttaylor: How do you dodge AIM-120s with (what appears to be) such confidence? Most of the time I have positively no idea when a missile is inbound, and so the RWR alert forces constant turns until I'm flat out of energy and clueless as to the position of my enemy.

 

And with 10 Gs pulled I should sure ****ing believe you lost your ordnance! Haha!

[Aginor]

I think you shouldn't have a G load of more than 6 Gs in a MiG-21, and that's why an F-15 has a huge advantage over you in any kind of dog fight.

[ttaylor0024]

ttaylor: How do you dodge AIM-120s with (what appears to be) such confidence? Most of the time I have positively no idea when a missile is inbound, and so the RWR alert forces constant turns until I'm flat out of energy and clueless as to the position of my enemy.

 

And with 10 Gs pulled I should sure ****ing believe you lost your ordnance! Haha!

 

It's not too difficult, just have to anticipate the launch and have a plan. Ususally if I'm locked I'll fly so the enemy is just barely in view of my radar, then if launched I'll turn away and while looking for the missile either dive down into the mountains/hills to get hidden and have the clutter help, or pull a high-G turn back into the missile if it's in sight to defeat it. A lot of people online try to shoot them at their maximum range, but the initial turn is all you would need to defeat that, just doesn't have enough energy to keep up by the time it gets to you.

 

Short range you basically just pull hard back into the missile if it's behind you, or break away from it if coming towards you. IR missiles you have to be careful about because of the lack of launch tone, but can be defeated by a high-G turn when in close range.

 

I think you shouldn't have a G load of more than 6 Gs in a MiG-21, and that's why an F-15 has a huge advantage over you in any kind of dog fight.

 

I'm going to do some testing to determine how many I can pull... I didn't think the R-3R would be ripped off, I knew the bombs would at around 5Gs. But the F-15 advantage is fine, they need all the advantage they can get :)

 

 

 

EDIT: Interesting turn of events... Pulled nearly 12Gs with 4 R-3Rs loaded, none of them fell off.

 

Time		H (m)		IAS (km/h)	G_vert 		G_horiz 	RPM 		AoA 		Hydro_m 	Hydro_b 	SAU 		Fors 		Trigger 
1.000000	1998.500000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	50.000000	-0.000000	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
2.000000	1998.319895	829.683194	1.173532	-0.269559	58.400000	1.076426	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
3.000000	1999.323429	821.291833	1.100692	-0.195882	67.418000	0.953021	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
4.000000	2001.348513	816.033828	1.087110	-0.078468	76.382000	0.961832	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
5.000000	2004.218012	815.056547	1.079739	0.097402	85.400000	0.949458	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
6.000000	2007.909358	821.780859	1.085844	0.461857	94.418000	0.901711	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
7.000000	2012.534659	835.234490	1.110683	0.456051	94.034000	0.844015	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
8.000000	2018.424419	848.591800	1.146556	0.450521	93.704000	0.821000	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
9.000000	2025.910184	861.151256	1.179290	0.447223	93.602000	0.793059	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
10.000000	2035.276844	873.521403	1.211929	0.443843	93.560000	0.767641	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
11.000000	2046.981031	885.410139	1.243709	0.435554	93.458000	0.743878	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
12.000000	2061.310487	896.234959	1.274064	0.428594	93.470000	0.722160	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
13.000000	2078.478760	906.521619	1.301701	0.421509	93.428000	0.699711	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
14.000000	2097.629128	916.862786	1.141342	0.421108	93.782000	0.290338	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
15.000000	2112.748004	915.099976	9.662087	2.082995	94.592000	22.097167	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
16.000000	2128.646288	879.669054	8.743030	1.900174	94.892000	21.711824	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
17.000000	2145.119395	852.945523	8.280170	1.831871	96.956000	21.638345	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
18.000000	2160.159232	828.358535	7.991036	1.826960	98.906000	22.071273	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
19.000000	2172.559446	804.289988	7.782579	1.833560	99.548000	22.715513	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
20.000000	2181.667914	780.599838	7.554162	1.826785	99.788000	23.318229	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
21.000000	2187.286492	757.501224	7.326809	1.816374	99.914000	23.916185	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
22.000000	2189.990120	735.606945	6.421741	1.413480	99.986000	21.699139	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
23.000000	2194.812200	737.320806	2.216062	0.576053	99.998000	6.128234	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
24.000000	2207.888388	748.638782	1.335076	0.518422	100.010000	2.480819	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
25.000000	2222.881714	762.183855	0.500142	0.527617	99.968000	-0.543826	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
26.000000	2234.045004	776.960146	0.953723	0.518310	99.980000	0.841528	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
27.000000	2243.336283	791.812397	0.137236	0.536000	99.992000	-1.906331	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
28.000000	2245.642831	808.207565	0.428474	0.526038	99.950000	-1.081002	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
29.000000	2242.084843	825.831639	0.732605	0.521579	99.962000	-0.230202	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
30.000000	2235.903767	843.084130	1.089596	0.517553	99.974000	0.697285	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
31.000000	2230.549640	859.930710	1.381152	0.516910	100.046000	1.368488	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
32.000000	2228.513925	875.581059	1.307364	0.508007	99.944000	0.997507	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
33.000000	2229.509051	890.814552	1.173445	0.499745	99.956000	0.482821	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
34.000000	2232.254053	905.798215	1.035325	0.492959	100.028000	-0.014970	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
35.000000	2235.432670	921.138821	0.914973	0.484009	100.040000	-0.444433	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
36.000000	2237.844865	935.985750	0.865397	0.474962	100.052000	-0.675202	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
37.000000	2238.976177	950.784693	0.886540	0.465177	100.010000	-0.723081	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
38.000000	2238.994370	965.897319	0.947658	0.454775	100.022000	-0.678737	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
39.000000	2238.444763	980.232519	1.011374	0.437020	100.034000	-0.627782	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
40.000000	2237.946556	994.211852	1.050047	0.417448	99.992000	-0.636475	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
41.000000	2237.868903	1007.523509	1.055561	0.397911	100.004000	-0.713544	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
42.000000	2238.281179	1019.884778	1.035075	0.378339	100.016000	-0.841434	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
43.000000	2238.990855	1031.725860	1.001604	0.358700	99.974000	-0.989913	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
44.000000	2239.699042	1043.347366	0.981644	0.339460	99.986000	-1.102620	210.000000	210.000000	2.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
45.000000	2240.239291	1054.057014	1.084757	0.318788	99.998000	-0.953344	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
46.000000	2238.394805	1063.440025	5.675370	0.617459	99.956000	8.406725	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
47.000000	2226.276401	1036.737390	10.579917	1.943200	99.968000	19.127051	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
48.000000	2204.774262	1014.745186	9.931158	1.815937	99.980000	18.514673	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
49.000000	2181.546869	993.888864	9.633134	1.809968	100.052000	18.639758	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
50.000000	2163.582633	973.862129	9.319183	1.788612	99.950000	18.679618	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
51.000000	2157.113018	953.515650	8.934543	1.615406	99.962000	17.833799	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
52.000000	2160.346742	958.465822	-0.507198	0.473622	100.034000	-3.928133	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
53.000000	2156.035432	974.468810	0.914378	0.457427	100.046000	-0.864086	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
54.000000	2144.332151	990.708206	0.751758	0.437718	99.944000	-1.303029	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
55.000000	2125.572458	1007.405161	0.819413	0.414934	100.016000	-1.255226	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
56.000000	2099.700377	1024.948628	0.856775	0.390282	100.028000	-1.276411	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
57.000000	2067.018253	1042.238417	0.896593	0.364344	100.040000	-1.294687	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
58.000000	2028.009967	1059.715266	0.926290	0.337434	99.998000	-1.335203	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
59.000000	1982.430194	1077.846035	0.958709	0.309225	100.010000	-1.374290	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
60.000000	1930.743981	1095.600188	0.990933	0.279997	100.022000	-1.414022	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
Time		H (m)		IAS (km/h)	G_vert 		G_horiz 	RPM 		AoA 		Hydro_m 	Hydro_b 	SAU 		Fors 		Trigger 
61.000000	1873.581311	1112.935564	0.999736	0.234057	99.980000	-1.460533	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
62.000000	1810.488067	1130.246917	1.035547	0.214911	99.992000	-1.456462	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
63.000000	1742.085532	1147.662891	1.068148	0.195273	100.004000	-1.458694	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
64.000000	1669.140802	1165.228501	1.101660	0.174675	99.962000	-1.459939	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
65.000000	1591.105970	1183.419811	1.136521	0.154214	99.974000	-1.460979	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
66.000000	1508.756293	1201.104304	1.171138	0.133464	99.986000	-1.461274	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
67.000000	1424.237638	1218.565882	1.327528	0.095435	99.260000	-1.231456	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	0.000000	0.000000	
68.000000	1341.185369	1227.677908	1.434885	-0.570268	89.240000	-1.085786	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
69.000000	1262.941485	1233.510856	1.980052	0.050211	95.978000	-0.139169	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
70.000000	1194.894589	1244.865461	3.976314	0.131126	98.558000	3.296164	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
71.000000	1152.300804	1249.292558	3.399325	0.110337	99.482000	2.293604	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
72.000000	1136.417504	1251.549505	3.624378	0.122460	99.836000	2.623828	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
73.000000	1145.577350	1250.232388	3.034369	0.100244	99.908000	1.586527	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
74.000000	1174.403935	1248.014126	2.516689	0.092062	99.920000	0.706964	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
75.000000	1217.772617	1243.840861	2.438518	0.095037	99.932000	0.599090	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
76.000000	1274.780435	1237.815104	2.427699	0.101027	100.004000	0.625132	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
77.000000	1345.274243	1230.112783	1.544767	0.099203	100.016000	-0.884116	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
78.000000	1422.489374	1222.577332	1.341385	0.109299	100.028000	-1.211551	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
79.000000	1494.317051	1216.247690	1.076787	0.112978	99.986000	-1.689568	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
80.000000	1556.166730	1211.119913	2.886835	0.129790	99.998000	2.391836	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
81.000000	1611.433971	1176.323286	11.791128	1.965560	100.010000	18.041123	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
82.000000	1666.837842	1138.308559	11.277577	1.775038	99.968000	17.143038	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
83.000000	1728.140531	1096.426536	11.253508	1.876006	99.980000	17.748775	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
84.000000	1798.932324	1056.072752	10.840721	1.929837	99.992000	18.360714	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
85.000000	1880.149024	1016.338907	10.367697	1.900964	99.950000	18.573778	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
86.000000	1969.357730	1001.387404	-0.506271	0.456768	99.962000	-3.904131	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
87.000000	2052.452803	1002.920618	0.971638	0.433699	99.974000	-0.961070	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
88.000000	2128.341058	1005.299029	0.770803	0.425474	100.046000	-1.370654	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
89.000000	2198.063778	1008.483076	0.810311	0.412666	99.944000	-1.306149	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
90.000000	2261.131511	1012.199839	0.817599	0.400371	99.956000	-1.309088	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
91.000000	2317.234652	1016.630226	0.831214	0.387970	100.028000	-1.303381	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
92.000000	2367.076527	1021.568923	0.842015	0.374435	100.040000	-1.306450	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000	
93.000000	2410.331130	1027.030709	0.850747	0.360325	100.052000	-1.317089	210.000000	210.000000	0.000000	1.000000	0.000000

 

 

EDIT #2: 10.9Gs did it again online. Pop'd right off.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ttaylor0024

[lucien]

ttaylor: How do you dodge AIM-120s with (what appears to be) such confidence? Most of the time I have positively no idea when a missile is inbound, and so the RWR alert forces constant turns until I'm flat out of energy and clueless as to the position of my enemy.

 

And with 10 Gs pulled I should sure ****ing believe you lost your ordnance! Haha!

 

Best thing to do is to hit the deck, or if you're too high, bleed the missile's energy with some high g maneuvers. You have to fool it into turning where you're not going to be when it reaches you if that makes sense. If you have a general idea of where the missile is coming from, which you always should, put the missiles behind a mountain and just fly low and reposition. I've never been caught by a Su-27 or an F-15 in the 21, so you should feel comfortable you can outrun him.

 

 

Right when I was getting to feel good about myself, having a great K/D in the MiG, I decide to hop on the 104th server today... Was getting ripped apart by the skilled F-15 guys. Would dodge about 3 or 4 AMRAAMS, then have him get behind me and get nailed by an AIM-9.

 

I would get within firing range by getting the RWR search tone from the 15 once, or seeingn the target in radar once, then turn the radar off, hit the deck, maneuver around and managed to get a love once, but had to immediately evade a missile or two. Fun stuff, but when you go up against skilled pilots you really have to improvise and come up with new tactics to use that aren't conventional. If anyone on here is up to fly with me, a wingman would make a HUGE difference. Shoot me a PM if so

 

Sometimes the teams are a bit imbalanced on the 104th. MiG 21 can only effectively pursue one target at a time so that can make it hard when theres 3 targets in front of you. Best thing to do is to ambush. Those 104th guys have my ass quite a lot tbh lol. those damn fire and forget missiles...

 

Yeah, loose weapon pylons seems to be a feature.... it doesn't effect single air2air missiles as much as it effects rocket pods, a2g missiles, or those R60 racks.

 

as for fumbling around with controls, i suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning, won't take long...

 

go offline, set controls so you have to take your hands off your throttle and stick as little as possible, in the real cockpit, things are only inches away from each other anyway, having it all on your stick or keyboard in more convenient places than the stupid default keys is far more realistic than any stupid mouse click, as cool as it is to be able to actually flick a switch on.

 

they were nice enough to provide some simple target practice missions offline, practice the medium and hard missions till you can confidently fire any missile the very second you know the missile will hit, you want to be like clint eastwood in a few dollars more, when he kills those 4 guys in like 2 seconds flat literally, before you even bother trying to kill stuff online.... trust me, will save you hours of frustration.

 

lol never get tired of the metaphors