MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[Hadwell]

 

 

 

...lol never get tired of the metaphors

 

 

Yeah its just how I think... You see, my mig21 don't like people laughin', it gets the crazy idea you're laughing at it....

[lucien]

Yeah its just how I think... You see, my mig21 don't like people laughin', it gets the crazy idea you're laughing at it....

 

:megalol::megalol::lol::lol::lol:

[Harpoon]

So, here were my results. I didn't get any kills, but all my losses were attributed to me fumbling with the controls or some other kind of systems error on my part. All things considered, I'm surprised with how well I did. I somehow managed to maneuver myself in for a kill on three separate occasions (first one wasn't recorded) and it's only because of my own inexperience that I didn't secure a kill.

 

What this really proved is that I just need more practice with the minutiae of the MiG-21's weapon selection but more importantly I need to rebind a lot of my commands because I spent far too much time bumbling around in the cockpit. I'm also finding that for whatever reason LNS included next to no toggles, so I'm quickly running out of space on my X52 to put all these switches.

 

4mA74e0RIrw

 

This sounds like me with the Ka-50. XD

[ff4life4]

Had a good night last night on the 104th. Bullseye was right over a mountain range, perfect for Mig.

 

Walked away with 2 solid kills, however I was pissed at myself because that number could have been 6.

2 times, I had R-3Rs en rout, and had an Aim 120 from a friendly destroy it seconds before my r-3rs hit.

 

1 time I had a perfect position on an F15 but was out of ammo and retreated.

 

Last chance I messed up was I was behind an F15 with my radar off, he didn't know I was there. I fired my pair of R-60Ms at him, however I forgot their range wasn't good so they fell short. Then he started going after a freindly, I got some gunshots on him but not enough before I ran out of gun ammo. Then I just stayed on his 6 for a while till I rammed him lol.

 

My 2 kills, I had a regular R-3r hit on someone who was flanking.

 

My other, was intense. I fired my Pair of r-3r, and I was left with only 4 R-60M. I found a target close in on radar. Now I was thinking I wish I took 2 extra r-3rs instead of the 4 r-60m. Split second later, WHAM, su-33 flew past my windscreen. Now I'm glad I have R-60s. We maneuvered for about a minute (felt like forever). Finally he made an error and I got behind him and put 2 r-60Ms into him. (that delay between pressing the launch button and missile firing felt forever.) So yes, that was my most intense kill.

 

Also I merged with an enemy Mig-21. But before one of use shot the other down, a friendly aim-120 hit him.

 

This stuff never gets old!

 

Edit: BTW, this was only done with 2 Airframes, and both my kills happened withing 2 minutes. My only crash was when I hit the F-15. couldn't believe I didnt get shot down during all of this

Edited December 8, 2014 by ff4life4

[Darkwolf]

Mig21 is really ok in the current environment. It can be tricky in populated skys with awacs, but remember it has a RCS which is quarter of the F15. I have countless time flown to the ennemi base without being noticed by all the fighters above me.

 

As the numbers goes :

 

Detection range from a su27, Flying 4000, head-on target, Interleaved PRF

 

Mig-21 75km

F-15C 110km

Su-27 90km

A-10C 85km

 

High PRF

 

Mig21 100km

F-15 140km

Su-27 120km

A10C 120km

 

When target is low alt, detection range proportionnally drop down to 2/3 of this. That is still plenty of time on a "head-on" interception. However on the battlefield, that is hardly happening so most of time - mig 21 is still a valid threat.

 

 

The only difference with other fighters is the weakness of the missiles. They are damn accurate (my personnal weapon log shows 86% accuracy on radar version) but they haven't the range.

So basically, the tactic is :

Fly silently, stay low, and when you see contrails above your head, go for the kill, you are already out of the target radar cone. Shot and run when target destroyed/miss. If you are locked at any time, second level reheat and just run as fast as you can. The F-15/Su-27 have hell of a time to keep lock on a Mig21. Keep in mind position of your own SAM so you can get back under cover.

[Hadwell]

So basically, the tactic is :

Fly silently, stay low, and when you see contrails above your head, go for the kill, you are already out of the target radar cone. Shot and run when target destroyed/miss. If you are locked at any time, second level reheat and just run as fast as you can. The F-15/Su-27 have hell of a time to keep lock on a Mig21. Keep in mind position of your own SAM so you can get back under cover.

 

yep, had some guy whine at me yesterday about using that tactic, lol saying it was exploiting, that people never fly that low in real life...

 

i was just like OK mr. aim-120 spammer... whatever you say...

 

obviously he just hates having to look for and actually fight his enemy...

 

thanks for the research, useful info.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Hadwell

[ff4life4]

yep, had some guy whine at me yesterday about using that tactic, lol saying it was exploiting, that people never fly that low in real life...

 

i was just like OK mr. aim-120 spammer... whatever you say...

 

LOL. So now your one of those "campers."

 

There is no exploiting its war. Just using your plane to its advantage. He shouldn't be contrailing if he's so worried about it. He's just making a "i'm over here" sign. I love climbing vertically to intercept a fighter contrailing

[ff4life4]

I must say, I have proven myself wrong..

 

I must say we have no chance against f15 or su27. Unless the person piloting them is really stupid

[ttaylor0024]

How do you guys usually visually detect enemies? I seem to be having a tougher time keeping an eye on him within a few miles...

 

Was in 2 turning fights against an F-15 yesterday, lost both. Evaded the AIM-9s, but was defeated by guns. I just couldn't keep the energy high enough to change the fight, and ont he second dogfight I made a mistake and turned the wrong direction on the 5th cross of scissors.

[Darkwolf]

TrackIR helps to keep track of ennemi.

 

However, I wouldn't dogfight anything in a mig21, even a P-51. everything in the game can out-turn you.

 

 

 

 

I must say, I have proven myself wrong..

 

 

AH AH AH AH I was thinking the same at first

 

 

Then after a few flight online... I was like "Are they all blind or drunk or what ?" - Then a few day after, i found a smaller target than usual, 2 bar on the su-27 radar. Searched for more information on Mig-21 RCS and found that it's a hell of a ghost. Experiment in DCS proven that it is also the same in the game. Now I'm confident when i go against the F15s. They can't EOS me and they have hard time seeing me.

[Why485]

I've finally started pulling kills after a lot of training and going back to the basics. Last night I scored a kill on an F-15C and two MiG-21s(!). Apparently people are flying them now, and I guess I'm one of them.

 

I think I saw ff4life4 on 104th last night complaining about how he should have had 6 kills. Not sure who it was, but one of the highest scoring fighters on the server was a MiG-21. Pretty great proof that pilot skill goes a long way.

 

My first kill was on an F-15C with an R-3R displaying some pretty hilarious and wacky guidance. I'll have a full video up sometime soon with more kills than just that unlucky F-15. I don't feel like shooting down other MiG-21s really counts, so I'm not as proud of those kills as I am that unwitting F-15.

 

This forum could really use webm support.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Why485

[lucien]

I've finally started pulling kills after a lot of training and going back to the basics. Last night I scored a kill on an F-15C and two MiG-21s(!). Apparently people are flying them now, and I guess I'm one of them.

 

I think I saw ff4life4 on 104th last night complaining about how he should have had 6 kills. Not sure who it was, but one of the highest scoring fighters on the server was a MiG-21. Pretty great proof that pilot skill goes a long way.

 

My first kill was on an F-15C with an R-3R displaying some pretty hilarious and wacky guidance. I'll have a full video up sometime soon with more kills than just that unlucky F-15. I don't feel like shooting down other MiG-21s really counts, so I'm not as proud of those kills as I am that unwitting F-15.

 

This forum could really use webm support.

 

Yes, I was on the server with you yesterday. I was the one who flew into the mountain while I was typing :P and then I blamed you.

 

Been flying with ttaylor(TSquared), think we shot down 4 fighters between us both that day, you should join us. There's more strategy to formation flying. I find it interesting.

[Why485]

Oh so that's why you recognized me! I was really confused by that. Next time I play I'll be sure to have my headset ready in case we meet again. Trying to coordinate a flight with text while flying is impossible, which is why I tended to go off on my own.

[GGTharos]

Last time I ran into a MiG-21 online he rage quit after taking a slammer to the face. The previous one got killed after a merge. Pretty easy, since the 21 can't hang in a turn with a modern fighter.

 

Beware of people who understand their sensors. Shooting down those who don't know what they're doing isn't a particularly great achievement.

 

 

Then after a few flight online... I was like "Are they all blind or drunk or what ?" - Then a few day after, i found a smaller target than usual, 2 bar on the su-27 radar. Searched for more information on Mig-21 RCS and found that it's a hell of a ghost. Experiment in DCS proven that it is also the same in the game. Now I'm confident when i go against the F15s. They can't EOS me and they have hard time seeing me.

Edited December 8, 2014 by GGTharos

[Darkwolf]

Well - you can't win everytime - especially in the 21' !

 

I wouldn't go fighter sweep over ennemi territory if they is several 104th pilots or some other great squads, connected in the opposite side :P

[lucien]

Last time I ran into a MiG-21 online he rage quit after taking a slammer to the face. The previous one got killed after a merge. Pretty easy, since the 21 can't hang in a turn with a modern fighter.

 

Beware of people who understand their sensors. Shooting down those who don't know what they're doing isn't a particularly great achievement.

 

Are you sure it wasn't you that was a furball? :mad:

 

Even if they do understand their systems, if you ambush them properly theres very little that can be done. Yer systems suck pal

Edited December 8, 2014 by lucien

[GGTharos]

Are you sure it wasn't you that was a furball? :mad:

 

Quite certain.

 

Even if they do understand their systems, if you ambush them properly theres very little that can be done. Yer systems suck pal

 

The F-15 holds plenty of chaff and flares. But some people don't know how to use those, either :)

 

In any case, 'pal', the fact that you must rely on an ambush is telling :)

[ff4life4]

Yep, I was on last night as (D/229) Chris3.

 

I had a higher kill count, but all except for 2 of them were from F-15c. I'll freely admit it lol.

 

And yes I was "frustrated" with myself for letting the other 4 get away. :)

[Hadwell]

Quite certain.

 

 

 

The F-15 holds plenty of chaff and flares. But some people don't know how to use those, either :)

 

In any case, 'pal', the fact that you must rely on an ambush is telling :)

 

only in the same way F-15 pilots rely on AIM-120s, and su-27 pilots rely on datalink

 

Stop using the aim-120, or R-27 and only use aim-7/9's and R-73/60M then it makes using the mig-21 any other way than we do less necessary

Edited December 9, 2014 by Hadwell

[ff4life4]

GG, I agree that given 2 equal pilots, in open airspace, the F15c destroys the Mig-21 hands down everytime.

 

The reason we enjoy fighting in the Mig-21 is because we are the underdog. We need to out-think our opponent and put ourselves in a position to strike. It knowing how to resist fighting and retreating, when we know we can't win.

 

I will never say the Mig-21 is a superior aircraft to the F-15c, its really not even close. But it comes down to pilots. A great pilot in an older airplane, is always better than a bad pilot in a good airplane. It comes down to tactics, and exploiting your advantages.

 

Its a much bigger rush I get when I close on an f15 or su27 with the Mig-21. And not all of the pilots I have shot down dont' know what they are doing. Once or twice I have taken down the highest scoring f15 pilot. How? using teamwork and ambushing.

 

I also promise that anyone who learns to fight in the Mig-21 will make themselves a better pilot when they move up to the F15, Su-27, etc. Learning how to fight and kill with inferiror technology, only makes it easier when you have it. And many people forget the basic fundamentals when they use the F15 or Su-27. Its one of those "if its not on radar or rwr it doesn't exist. I have also seen some very bad dogfighting and BFM skills from those flying those modern jets. Mig-21 is a perfect training tool, to teach the basics again.

[Paradox]

There's going to be something to learn in here about losing graciously at some stage.

 

Fishbed pilots are always going to rely on ambushes, there's no point in chastising them for not fighting fairly, why would they?

[Darkwolf]

Stop using the aim-120, or R-27 and only use aim-7/9's and R-73/60M then it makes using the mig-21 any other way than we do less necessary

 

Believe me, I prefer the Atoll than the R-27. If only i could get some on my Su-27......

[Hadwell]

I have also seen some very bad dogfighting and BFM skills from those flying those modern jets. Mig-21 is a perfect training tool, to teach the basics again.

 

yeah, i think everyone who flies the F-15 should go play IL2 battle of stalingrad or cliffs of dover for a few months and find out how terrible they actually are at combat

 

modern fighters, and i use the word fighters loosely, are designed to let the missile do all the fighting for them... the f-15 might be capable of fighting, but it rarely ever does when it can just lob missiles that automatically iff, lock, and track their target...

 

that doesn't mean i don't have fun flying FC3 planes, i fly them a lot, but when i do, i take the worst missiles they can carry. much more rewarding that way.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Hadwell

[Hadwell]

Believe me, I prefer the Atoll than the R-27. If only i could get some on my Su-27......

 

the su-27 can take R-73, mig-29 can take 6 R-60M

[lucien]

Quite certain.

 

 

 

The F-15 holds plenty of chaff and flares. But some people don't know how to use those, either :)

 

In any case, 'pal', the fact that you must rely on an ambush is telling :)

 

What's your name ingame pal?

 

GG, I agree that given 2 equal pilots, in open airspace, the F15c destroys the Mig-21 hands down everytime.

 

The reason we enjoy fighting in the Mig-21 is because we are the underdog. We need to out-think our opponent and put ourselves in a position to strike. It knowing how to resist fighting and retreating, when we know we can't win.

 

I will never say the Mig-21 is a superior aircraft to the F-15c, its really not even close. But it comes down to pilots. A great pilot in an older airplane, is always better than a bad pilot in a good airplane. It comes down to tactics, and exploiting your advantages.

 

Its a much bigger rush I get when I close on an f15 or su27 with the Mig-21. And not all of the pilots I have shot down dont' know what they are doing. Once or twice I have taken down the highest scoring f15 pilot. How? using teamwork and ambushing.

 

I also promise that anyone who learns to fight in the Mig-21 will make themselves a better pilot when they move up to the F15, Su-27, etc. Learning how to fight and kill with inferiror technology, only makes it easier when you have it. And many people forget the basic fundamentals when they use the F15 or Su-27. Its one of those "if its not on radar or rwr it doesn't exist. I have also seen some very bad dogfighting and BFM skills from those flying those modern jets. Mig-21 is a perfect training tool, to teach the basics again.

 

Very well said. I mean really, its a completely different generation of fighter aircraft. Obviously there are advances in the F-15C. Still, prefer MiG 21 over FC3 simply because I love older russian aircraft. I can't really say so much about this, though, as I never really got into FC3 at all really. The only reason I'm interested in trying FC3 again is to become a better 21 pilot lol.

 

yeah, i think everyone who flies the F-15 should go play IL2 battle of stalingrad or cliffs of dover for a few months and find out how terrible they actually are at combat

 

modern fighters, and i use the word fighters loosely, are designed to let the missile do all the fighting for them... the f-15 might be capable of fighting, but it rarely ever does when it can just lob missiles that automatically iff, lock, and track their target...

 

that doesn't mean i don't have fun flying FC3 planes, i fly them a lot, but when i do, i take the worst missiles they can carry. much more rewarding that way.

 

lol that's why you're always decked out in R-60M with the MiG-29. Always found that interesting.