Would you like your dynamic campaigns to work in multiplayer too?

[AndyHill]

So, would you? I know I would. The best thing is that it can be done and there's even a good chance that it will be done. SwingKid has been working on one for quite some time already and although it's still at the "technical demonstrator" phase there's been steady progress and I believe the campaign engine will one day be finished and able to create dynamic Lock on -campaigns.

 

Single player campaigns should be possible with the present mission result file system (you get all the necessary data from campaign files already so there's no problem), but if you want to fly dynamic campaigns with your buddies ED need to implement something similiar for multiplayer as well. It should be dead simple, since it has already been done for single player and if for some reason the same system can't be used in multiplayer environment there should be relatively easy workarounds such as the lua exports or multiplayer logs for example. What is required is a complete list of all the events that occur in the missions and all the associated details (such as the exatc object that is destroyed and so on) saved in a file so that the external campaign engine (SkyWars 2) can read the events and manage the campaign status accordingly. But like I said, a perfectly working system is already in place, it just needs to be enabled in multiplayer games as well.

 

I think that at worst implementing something like this would delay the Black Shark release a couple of days at most. If ED went through a little trouble they could get a dynamic (single AND multiplayer) campaign engine for free. It would keep players interested in Lock on until the release of the sequel (and might save them a lot of developement effort if they could use the third party campaign as a prototype for their own campaigns later on) by improving replayability immensely. I couldn't think of a feature with nearly as good a cost-effect ratio as this one. This would also be the perfect time to implement the new feature, since ED are working hard on the Black Shark. The campaign engine won't be finished in time for Black Shark release, but sometime in the future ED could use the availability of a dynamic campaign to boost the sales of their products (for example a Lock on Platinum release) even if the campaign wasn't of their own making.

 

I think this would be pretty much a win-win situation for everyone. ED would have a huge improvement for their sim at almost no cost to themselves, we would get to play dynamic campaigns in multiplayer also and SwingKid would get to do a lot of hard work for little reward. So how about it? Would you care about a multiplayer dynamic campaign? If you like dynamic campaigns in general it wouldn't hurt to show support for SwingKid, who's working on one at the moment. I say go for it all the way, what says the Lockon.ru forum?

 

_______________________________________________________

Lock on MUST have a dynamic campaign with multiplayer support!

[Witchking]

I have put forth the bill at witchking's counsellete and he agrees. :)

[Dusty Rhodes]

You know it has my full support. If nothing else ever came of Lock On, a DC or even a Dynamic Mission Generator is the one thing that would push Lock On and future product over the top! Please make possible ED!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I am all for DC. BTW where can we get SwingKid campaign generator?

[Outlaw24]

The ability to fly Dynamic campaigns or missions either single/multiplayer would definitely give FC an entirely new dimension, and longer legs until the next release.

[rockwelder]

I think we need Swingkid to weigh in here...if it were to take a few days to do it I think ED would have done it already...not to rain on the parade, as i know it is in the plans to do a DC, just do not get to over exuburant in the idea that it can be done for BlackShark..I may be wrong though...

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hehehe, he is the reason Andy and I are in this thread.

 

http://lockoncampaign.com:8811/board/index.php?a=forum&f=11

[SwingKid]

Thanks for the support!

 

The "SkyWars2" DC is a work in progress and I'd like to continue working on it and to make it v1.2 compatible, but as AndyHill says, it depends on a good debriefing-save feature built into the sim, and I think he's correct that it wouldn't be very difficult (such a feature was already partly available, at least for single-player, in v1.0-v1.12a). It's something I've been asking for since v1.0 release, and v1.2 looks like our last chance for a while... When their decisions need to be made about what work to include, it helps to know that it's not just one person interested, but many.

 

Hoping for luck...

 

-SK

[Hawg11]

Keep up the good work SwingKid! This program seems very promising...

[AndyHill]

I don't think it would take more than a couple of days, since ED only have to do a tiny bit and SwingKid will do the rest. Personally I think even a couple of weeks spent on this would be very cost-effective, but the important part is what ED want to do. Maybe if people on this board show support they'll reconsider.

 

After the BSO fiasco I kind of thought keeping a relatively low profile would be preferrable until the release of the campaign generator, but this would be a very good time to get a tiny little bit of support from ED. It would be a great shame if the campaign generator would be limited to single player just because such a simple little feature was missing.

 

_______________________________________________________

Lock on MUST have a dynamic campaign with multiplayer support!

[ZoomBoy27]

It has my support - it gives ED:

- Longer term interest which helps for long-term funding as people buy the program for a longer period of time

- Good community relations, with the 3rd party mod, as they overcome a long-time LOMAC gripe.

- can use that idea and test it for the next project

 

Cheers

[SUBS17]

So, would you? I know I would. The best thing is that it can be done and there's even a good chance that it will be done. SwingKid has been working on one for quite some time already and although it's still at the "technical demonstrator" phase there's been steady progress and I believe the campaign engine will one day be finished and able to create dynamic Lock on -campaigns.

 

Single player campaigns should be possible with the present mission result file system (you get all the necessary data from campaign files already so there's no problem), but if you want to fly dynamic campaigns with your buddies ED need to implement something similiar for multiplayer as well. It should be dead simple, since it has already been done for single player and if for some reason the same system can't be used in multiplayer environment there should be relatively easy workarounds such as the lua exports or multiplayer logs for example. What is required is a complete list of all the events that occur in the missions and all the associated details (such as the exatc object that is destroyed and so on) saved in a file so that the external campaign engine (SkyWars 2) can read the events and manage the campaign status accordingly. But like I said, a perfectly working system is already in place, it just needs to be enabled in multiplayer games as well.

 

I think that at worst implementing something like this would delay the Black Shark release a couple of days at most. If ED went through a little trouble they could get a dynamic (single AND multiplayer) campaign engine for free. It would keep players interested in Lock on until the release of the sequel (and might save them a lot of developement effort if they could use the third party campaign as a prototype for their own campaigns later on) by improving replayability immensely. I couldn't think of a feature with nearly as good a cost-effect ratio as this one. This would also be the perfect time to implement the new feature, since ED are working hard on the Black Shark. The campaign engine won't be finished in time for Black Shark release, but sometime in the future ED could use the availability of a dynamic campaign to boost the sales of their products (for example a Lock on Platinum release) even if the campaign wasn't of their own making.

 

I think this would be pretty much a win-win situation for everyone. ED would have a huge improvement for their sim at almost no cost to themselves, we would get to play dynamic campaigns in multiplayer also and SwingKid would get to do a lot of hard work for little reward. So how about it? Would you care about a multiplayer dynamic campaign? If you like dynamic campaigns in general it wouldn't hurt to show support for SwingKid, who's working on one at the moment. I say go for it all the way, what says the Lockon.ru forum?

 

_______________________________________________________

Lock on MUST have a dynamic campaign with multiplayer support!

 

 

For a DC there is no client nor is there player selection, all aircraft that are capable of being flown for all Squadrons must be flyable for a Dynamic Campaign. Aircraft selection must be through Squadron selection, and then select which airframe you want.(for both MP and SP)

[SwingKid]

For a DC there is no client nor is there player selection, all aircraft that are capable of being flown for all Squadrons must be flyable for a Dynamic Campaign.

 

Can you rephrase this sentence? I didn't understand it. How can you have a multiplayer session without clients?

 

-SK

[Gunja]

It is a big issue for lots of us to have DC online, and support from ED in that matter would be a smart thing to do.

[Weta43]

I think he's implying that if you can't just jump in any plane of a flyable type (Su-27, F15, Su25 etc) then you haven't got a true DC. - He's saying that the fact that there are "client" class Su-27's & AI class Su-27'd defined in the mission builder invalidates claims to a "DC

 

"Edit - which seems an excessively narrow definition of DC to me.

As long as my/our actions & the events that happen up to now cause the situation that occurs from now & the campaign generator can create new sensible missions & goals spontaneously based on the situation as it is, it's a DC & being restricted to a particular plane isn't a problem as long as either:

For single player the campaign generator fast forwards the action in the background in a timely manner till the next time your plane is needed.

or:

For SP or MP there's enough happening that you're pretty much guaranteed a flight within a reasonable timeframe.

Still as a goal being able to just pick any plane from a list flights isn't a bad one.

[Weta43]

see above

[SwingKid]

I think he's implying that if you can't just jump in any plane of a flyable type (Su-27, F15, Su25 etc) then you haven't got a true DC.

 

This sounds a lot like "player selection", doesn't it? He seems to be saying that if you CAN do this, then you haven't got a true DC. :confused:

 

SkyWars2 lets you fly whatever you want, but I'm not sure that's what he's talking about, or if he's looked at it. Or, for that matter, read AndyHill's post, that he seemed to be responding to..?

 

Admittedly, it was a pretty long post... ;)

 

-SK

[Weta43]

SUBS17 said " all aircraft that are capable of being flown for all Squadrons must be flyable for a Dynamic Campaign. "

and:

" Aircraft selection must be through Squadron selection, and then select which airframe you want.(for both MP and SP) "

 

The first of which to me implies that he believes no external campaign generating utility can provide a "true" DC if it is tied to LO's "player", "AI", "CLIENT" classes, & the second makes me think that if plane selection isn't done as he expects it - it's not a "true" DC.

 

It seems to me though that what makes a DC a DC is that it's dynamically generated (& therefore both ongoing without further input from the campaign designer beyond the initial setup & never the same if played repeatedly from the same startpoint), not the method of selecting your plane.

If after initially deciding on the Su-27 (or F-51) I'm stuck with that plane till I die & the flight it is in till they're all gone, & I only get to fly a mission every two & a half days of game time, it could still be a true DC, (just a bit too faithfull in it's depiction of the boring downtime.) & if when I land I get to immediately pick any plane in the air, on the ground or set to take off in the next 10 min that also could be truly dynamic.

[SUBS17]

In a DC the campaign is run on a strategic level so there should not be a difference between client and player. The two must be the same for you to unleash its full potential. The problem I have with the editor is having to assign individual steerpoints for individual aircraft. At a strategic level everything is operating or moving at Sqn/company/Battalion/regiment level. Units are assigned a role and must perform that role automatically. It sounds complex but it isn't all that is needed is to add a Squadron assignment menu and for the the game to recognise if slot is not filled by player client then an AI pilot is assigned. The name of the pilot and skill level would be automatically selected from that Squadron. This way the player or client on a server can fly the mission with the support from AI wingmen automatically. If all slots are taken by players then all the better. At least this way you can create a rolling campaign in real time. If you add to this the ability to create a flight plan while the server is running then you are even closer to a DC.(hopefully TK might have this option)

[SwingKid]

This way the player or client on a server can fly the mission with the support from AI wingmen automatically. If all slots are taken by players then all the better. At least this way you can create a rolling campaign in real time. If you add to this the ability to create a flight plan while the server is running then you are even closer to a DC.

 

Are you sure you're not equating the word "dynamic" with "real-time"? An external turn-based DC like SkyWars2 can allow the players to choose which slots they want to occupy from its own interface, before writing the mission file, and record their choices in the file, no? That's how I manage it in SW2.

 

-SK

[Sleek]

I'd luv a DC but personally think that LOMAC would come to a standstill if there's a lot of AI things going on..LOMAC struggles now..IMO

[Weta43]

I forgot to say SK - good luck - looking forward to seeing the results.

 

About the FPS question above - Does your external campaign generator run a whole larger battle outside LO then assign part of it to the game through the LO mission generator (sort of like a mega-bubble) - just followed a link & saw this was in the plan - is this still the case - the bulk of the action is carried out by the campaign generator out of game & a portion is run in LO then the results integrated back into the campaign generator & integrated into the larger war?

[SwingKid]

About the FPS question above - Does your external campaign generator run a whole larger battle outside LO then assign part of it to the game through the LO mission generator (sort of like a mega-bubble) - just followed a link & saw this was in the plan - is this still the case - the bulk of the action is carried out by the campaign generator out of game & a portion is run in LO then the results integrated back into the campaign generator & integrated into the larger war?

 

That's the plan.

 

-SK

[Weta43]

So SK where are you at with the SP version & if you get the MP log data that you're after with 1.2 how long to get the MP version to the same stage?

[AndyHill]

If you test the latest version you'll notice that there's already an option for creating multiplayer missions (there's a template for 8 players). The only difference with multiplayer is the flyable plane assignment so it shouldn't be too far behind.

 

_______________________________________________________

Lock on MUST have a dynamic campaign with multiplayer support!